Biblical Reincarnation

a reply to: ChesterJohn

We've had this discussion before. Who are you going to believe Jesus or John and Luke?

a reply to: Akragon
I'll let Jesus answer that clear and succinctly:

John 13:15

15 For I set the pattern for you, that just as I did to you, you should also do.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Akragon
I'll let Jesus answer that clear and succinctly:

John 13:15

15 For I set the pattern for you, that just as I did to you, you should also do.

Ya sorry... that makes absolutely no sense...

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Sure, do as he did... that part is obvious... but how does one "go in and out" and find pasture...

a reply to: Akragon
Perhaps quoting some verses from the same chapter will clear it up then:

John 10:

“Most truly I say to you, the one who does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs in by another way, that one is a thief and a plunderer. 2 But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus spoke this comparison to them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. 7 So Jesus said again: “Most truly I say to you, I am the door for the sheep. 8 All those who have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and that one will go in and out and find pasturage.
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16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
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25 Jesus answered them: “I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in my Father’s name, these bear witness about me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
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37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me.

'Following Jesus' includes what I quoted earlier which in turn includes teachings and commandments that Jesus was taught by his Father Jehovah as well as demonstrated by "doing the works of" his Father Jehovah, setting a fine example for those who want to follow him. Here are some examples:

Luke 4:8 (NWT):

In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

The Divine Name King James Bible:

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the LORD, ( Jehovah Deu 6:13; Deu 10:20 ) thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Btw, the Hebrew word for "lord" is not found at Deut 6:13 and Deut 10:20 in the oldest manuscripts.

Matthew 6:9:

9 “You must pray, then, this way:

“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.*

*: Or “be held sacred; be treated as holy.”

Live in Harmony With the Model Prayer—Part I

Luke 8:1:

8 Shortly afterward he traveled from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God. And the Twelve were with him,

“Your Leader Is One, the Christ”:

CHRISTENDOM’S churches have human leaders, such as the pope of Rome, the patriarchs and metropolitans of the Eastern Orthodox churches, and the heads of other religions. Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize no human as their leader. They are not disciples or followers of any man. This is in line with Jehovah’s prophetic utterance concerning his Son: “Look! As a witness to the national groups I have given him, as a leader and commander to the national groups.” (Isa. 55:4) The international congregation of anointed Christians and their “other sheep” companions want no leader other than the one Jehovah has given them. (John 10:16) They subscribe to Jesus’ statement: “Your Leader is one, the Christ.”—Matt. 23:10.
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5. How did Christ act as Leader during his earthly ministry?
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His disciples followed him as he traveled the length and breadth of the land, preaching the good news of the Kingdom. (Luke 8:1) He trained them in the preaching work and took the lead in preaching and teaching, setting a fine example. (Luke 9:1-6)
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6. In what way did Christ prove to be a Shepherd and Leader?

6 Jesus pointed to another aspect of his leadership by comparing himself to a loving shepherd. Oriental shepherds literally lead their flocks. In The Land and the Book, W. M. Thomson wrote: “The shepherd goes before, not merely to point out the way, but to see that it is practicable and safe. . . . With [his] staff he rules and guides the flock to their green pastures, and defends them from their enemies.” Showing that he is a true Shepherd and Leader, Jesus declared: “I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” (John 10:11, 27) True to his word, Jesus died a sacrificial death in behalf of his sheep, but Jehovah “raised him up to be leader and Saviour.”—Acts 5:31, New Jerusalem Bible; Heb. 13:20.

a reply to: whereislogic

Lol no... That doesn't clear up anything... Not that i needed clarification on this issue

There is only one answer... And yes the bible doesn't clearly teach reincarnation... But it is very clearly alluded to in many passages including the one in question

HE is the door... And going in and out of said door can only mean one thing

Pretty simple actually

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: whereislogic

Lol no... That doesn't clear up anything... Not that i needed clarification on this issue

There is only one answer... And yes the bible doesn't clearly teach reincarnation... But it is very clearly alluded to in many passages including the one in question

HE is the door... And going in and out of said door can only mean one thing

Pretty simple actually

It does though teach it. The reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist, who had no clue himself suggesting he was but didn't know it.

Jesus did though. He said Elijah was John.

And Malachi prophecies it.

Ressurection is also no different than reincarnation if you aren't an Apocalypse nut, you die and come back to life.

Reincarnation.

a reply to: windword

God's word is what I believe. Just because you can't tell the difference in Jesus telling them he is elias that should come as the fulfillment of the scriptures does not mean John the Baptist was a reincarnation. and you deny what Gabriel tells John's father about John from the Mouth of God before Jesus or John were even born.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: windword

God's word is what I believe. Just because you can't tell the difference in Jesus telling them he is elias that should come as the fulfillment of the scriptures does not mean John the Baptist was a reincarnation. and you deny what Gabriel tells John's father about John from the Mouth of God before Jesus or John were even born.

Actually it does mean reincarnation.

If John the Baptist was Elijah like Jesus said but didn't know it and denied it when asked if he was, it means he didn't remember being Elijah.

That's textbook reincarnation.

a reply to: Malocchio

If that be true then you are Saul of Tarsus.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

If that be true then you are Saul of Tarsus.

WTHeck???!!!?? Dude, you are so "out there" it's ridiculous!

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ctophil

Thanks everyone...

I would argue that there most definitely are "punishments".... but they happen in life, not "after death"

I came to the same conclusion after two years of delving into the KJV: all of God's punishments, cursings, wrath, destruction, perishing and so on, are worked out in the here-and-now. The Bible is quite silent on any punishment after death, Hell included.

In His meeting with Nicodemus, Jesus told Nic that he needed to be born again. Nic asked if that meant he had to emerge from his mother's womb a second time (reincarnation). Jesus FAILED to pick up the ball and run with it, and that is why I don't believe in reincarnation. Well, one reason...

Reincarnation explains a lot of their questions like free will vs predestination. Those of us born with a sense of that are continuing on a path. That explains how the door works too. Once we have become one of His, wherever we are in life we learn to hear His voice. That's why many have abandoned churches and other religions in mass lately. Those in Christ are actually easy to spot. You know them by their love, not their beliefs. Jesus pointed the way to evolving in life, and basically just those two rules were enough. That's where free choice comes in. But as far as just saying a magical prayer or getting baptized.. Pretty much all the religions.. You've been played big time. None of that saves. IMO

a reply to: Lazarus Short

In His meeting with Nicodemus, Jesus told Nic that he needed to be born again. Nic asked if that meant he had to emerge from his mother's womb a second time (reincarnation). Jesus FAILED to pick up the ball and run with it, and that is why I don't believe in reincarnation. Well, one reason...

He not only picked up said ball, but he slam dunked it brother...


Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Again... as i've said many times before... some things are obvious, with no other explanation