Does the Pope believe he is the "Vicar of Christ"?

Does the Pope believe he is the Vicar of Christ as presented in historical church doctrine?

I would love to ask the Pope this question and hear his answer.

What does "The Vicar of Christ" imply?

“The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.' 'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise.” [Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (Washington, DC: US Catholic Conference, 1994, 1997) #882.

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So the Pope has authority over the Catholic (Universal), the only true church, as Vicar of Christ. According to their beliefs.

Now for the more disturbing implications of the title Vicar of Christ, and the power the Pope is given by that title.

“The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls” (Catechism, paragraph 937).

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Questions about my soul

Is the Pope Omniscient? He doesn't know me yet he poses the universal power to determine the fate of my soul. Does he believe this?

Does the Pope consider himself the only voice of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit (trinity) on earth? Does he believe he has both the right and care to judge all souls?

And if he does believe, when did he come to the realization that he wields such tremendous authority over our souls? What does it feel like to have the burden of every soul on your back? If someone dies and the church didn't "save" them did the Pope fail?

Is the Pope infallible? Does the Vicar of Christ sin?

Does the Pope believe his understanding of the bible to be infallible? When did his understanding of the text become infallible. Did something miraculous happen the day he was selected for Pope which made him realize his infallibility?

According to the Catholic interpretation the Pope must have been a sinner prior to becoming Pope, because of Original Sin. Sin/Satan was more powerful than the Pope before becoming Pope according to Catholicism.

If the Pope is the Vicar of Christ as defined by Catholic interpretation he must have become infallible when elected to the office of Pope. If the Pope is the true representative on Christ on earth surely he has overcome all sin, because Christ overcame all sin.

I will expand this question to the entire world. Is there anyone who believes the Pope has the type of power the title Vicar of Christ implies?

It should be easy for the Pope to deny that title and destroy the infallibility of the church. If the Pope would acknowledge he does not fill that role the infallibility is gone. Then the church could finally admit that the founders of the church got a few things wrong 1700 years ago.

Then maybe the world would truly get to know the Holy Spirit.

A message to the Pope: If you believe you have authority over all souls on earth, I believe you have gone insane. You are a man, just like me. You are not the Vicar of Christ, nor am I.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
Does the Pope believe he is the Vicar of Christ as presented in historical church doctrine?

I would love to ask the Pope this question and hear his answer.

Why don't you send him an email and let us know what he says. However, the Pope is also known as the Vicar of Christ as a title, so he would probably say yes.

As to all the other questions... Yes, everyone sins. That's the point. I think it's called Papal infallibility to recognise that the Pope cannot not sin.

Actually, I doubt. if the pope even believes. In God. He would certainly not be a Catholic, worship idols, and accept worship if he did. He is probably an atheistw.

a reply to: Isurrender73

How can a man who believes in God accept the title of pope, strictly forbidden by Jesus in Matthew 23:9.

It seems very illogical that he believes in God and knowingly disobeys the master to mislead over a billion people.

The real question here is, do you believe it?
As for the pope, I'd recon rule #1 applies. Don't get high on your own supply!

a reply to: Isurrender73

I am not a fan of the Pope, and believe that Christ moves through people who are truly faithful to him, not through specific and ordained persons, in special clothes, who have special rules and special powers. That's all ritualistic hogwash, a hold over from the Roman polytheism with which Christianity was blended by a bunch of heretic scum, to water it down and make it less of a freeing and beautiful thing to be involved with.

BUT...

You have failed to read the segment you quoted correctly. The Pope has no control over the fate of your soul, or any other. He has control over the CARE of your soul, according to the foul tenents of the broken, paganistic hybrid that is Catholicism anyway. The fate of your soul is matter between you and God, who is the judge of these matters. The Pope has control over the manner in which message of Christ is taught (or in the case of Catholicism in the past, obfuscated, manipulated, controlled, and outright embuggered) by the clergy under his command. There is a MASSIVE difference between the two things.

The fate of your soul, and the care of it are not like concepts.

a reply to: Isurrender73

He got the keys to the sky!!!

a reply to: TrueBrit

You are wrong.

The Catholic interpretation gives everyone who is a priest of the church the power to forgive sins and not forgive sins.

According to the Catholic interpretation of the following verse.

Mathew 16

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

According to Catholicism this verse gave Peter the power to forgive or condemn anyone he chose. They claim he was the leader of church and the first Vicar of Christ / Pope.

The Pope is the head of the church that claims Devine right over forgiveness of sin, which is the purpose of the confessional. Without receiving forgiveness from the church the soul remains dammed. The only out is for someone who never heard the message. They teach this because it fits into the doctorine of Original Sin and Ritual Salvation.

By the definition of the church the Pope has authority over heaven.

The verse unfortunately for the church has nothing to do with sin. The verse is simple.

If you bind your heart to the material world you will work all your days searching for material satisfaction. If you bind your heart to the Spirit you will work all your days searching for Love.

Therefore it is better to bind yourself to Love then material goods.

This is why I am not Catholic.

a reply to: Isurrender73

A message to the Pope: If you believe you have authority over all souls on earth, I believe you have gone insane.

I agree. If the Pope, any Pope, believes it, then he's a madman. If he doesn't, then he's a hypocrite and a liar.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I am not wrong at all.

There are some things about the way the text of the Bible was assembled, that I simply do not trust. All the parts which contradict the primacy of Christ and God, over all men, for example. No mere mortal, no man, even a man of the cloth, rules or has sway in heaven, and that is just a fact. You can quote what you like, but it will not change a damn thing. No man is my captain, no man is my King, and no man is my Saviour. Christ Jesus, Son of God is my saviour, and he has no boss on earth.

For what that passage says to be accurate, would negate the power of Christ, and the power of God, because under the rule of the disgusting, fetid, evil bastards who have been Pope since that station was even invented, some utter villains, barbers, murderers, molestors and sickos have been given leave to do as they might, and been absolved, despite a total lack of repentance. I utterly refute the idea.

Show me a passage about the love of Christ, and I will believe it the issue of a person transcribing the word of Christ. Show me a passage about control, tyrannical and despotic infrastructures, and I will show you something that was placed in the text by nefarious hand, to colour and desecrate the message and love of Christ, that men might not trust its true virtue.

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is where you are wrong.

You have failed to read the segment you quoted correctly. The Pope has no control over the fate of your soul, or any other. He has control over the CARE of your soul, according to the foul tenents of the broken, paganistic hybrid that is Catholicism anyway. The fate of your soul is matter between you and God, who is the judge of these matters.

According to the Catholic Church the Pope does have authority to forgive or condemn souls.

I agree with you, that it is something between God and the individual, bit that is not the church doctrine.

Vicarius filii dei
Vicarius Filii Dei (Latin: Vicar or Representative of the Son of God) is a phrase first used in the forged medieval Donation of Constantine to refer to Saint Peter, a leader of the Early Christian Church and regarded as the first Pope by the Catholic Church. What the church believed in the past and what it believes today has changed - or perhaps just toned down. At one time the Catholic Church had the power of the state behind it. America was the downfall of the church/state institution. Today we fight about America being Christian. At one time, MD was a Catholic state - taxes from the people supported that church.
But I digress - the church did have the ability to name and control kings. During the Dark Ages, a European king could not hope to retain his kingdom unless he had the blessing of Rome.
During the mass transubstantiation occurs in the host - the priest turns the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Getting to heaven without it is impossible - according to their misinterpretation of the following verses: John 6:53-55 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
The pope had the ability to issue a "Papal Bull" that changes doctrine and diverges from the Bible. The Pope is the final authority in the Catholic church, not the Bible.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Isurrender73

A message to the Pope: If you believe you have authority over all souls on earth, I believe you have gone insane.

I agree. If the Pope, any Pope, believes it, then he's a madman. If he doesn't, then he's a hypocrite and a liar.

Agreed. Which is why I would love to ask him the question.

Pope Francis is a good man. I feel like he has definitely tried to imply he doesn't truly believe that he is equal to Christ.

He is a humanitarian. A fellow Hippie. He's loving, and kind. He's far better than any Pope we've seen in quite some time. I don't think that he believes he truly is the "vicar".

originally posted by: AGustOfWind312
Pope Francis is a good man. I feel like he has definitely tried to imply he doesn't truly believe that he is equal to Christ.

He is a humanitarian. A fellow Hippie. He's loving, and kind. He's far better than any Pope we've seen in quite some time. I don't think that he believes he truly is the "vicar".

I actually agree with you, which is part of my motivation for this thread.

I imagine if he told the truth the whole world would forgive him and the church for 1700 years of mistakes.

It's human to forgive, and I believe he is a humble man who would be honest if confronted with this line of questions.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: AGustOfWind312
Pope Francis is a good man. I feel like he has definitely tried to imply he doesn't truly believe that he is equal to Christ.

He is a humanitarian. A fellow Hippie. He's loving, and kind. He's far better than any Pope we've seen in quite some time. I don't think that he believes he truly is the "vicar".

I actually agree with you, which is part of my motivation for this thread.

I imagine if he told the truth the whole world would forgive him and the church for 1700 years of mistakes.

It's human to forgive, and I believe he is a humble man who would be honest if confronted with this line of questions.

He could bring about a whole new generation of religion. Religion, on it's own, and when projected a certain way, can be bad. If he'd use his position to preach humanitarian values of love and forgiveness, we could be going somewhere.

I hope he is given the respect he deserves in the generations to come. As is, a lot of the Religious Right doesn't approve of him. He expresses Socially Democratic values.

a reply to: AGustOfWind312

Amen

I'm fairly sure that the pope would despise everything that the Nazarene builder stood for. It would mean that he would have to abrogate the riches, dogma and the silly hat.

a reply to: Isurrender73

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome. His claim is as successor to Saint Peter the Apostle who was martyred in Rome. His proper ancient title is "Vicar of St. Peter".

As the universal claims of the Bishop of Rome and the bishops in communion with him began to expand, the title "Vicar of Christ" came to be applied. However, "Vicar of Christ" is an appropriate title for any of the holders of the ancient patriarchal sees of ancient Christendom. It simply means the man is standing in the role that belongs to Jesus of Nazareth until Jesus the Christ returns in the fulness of his dominion over all.

I offer this simply as a perspective on this from within the Latin Christian tradition. There are many other ways to critique these titles and claims stemming from the apostles of Jesus.