Harvard Study Reveals Drug Prices are High in U.S. Because Government Grants Monopoly to Big Pharma

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: SlapMonkey

That's why it's a huge problem when medicine is used as a tool for profiting off of human misery and not the agent to remove it as intended... meaning hey if you can afford it... instead of being a basic human right.

Well, not to start an off-topic discussion, but I would argue that medicine is not a basic human right--life is a basic human right, but not artificial prolonging of said life with manufactured medicines. I know that it sounds cold-hearted, but trust me, I get the need for medicine for life--I'm an asthmatic myself, and probably would have died 50 times over when I was younger had I not had access to (what I remember being) injections of adrenaline to relieve my severe attacks that were not controlled with 'rescue inhalers.' God, I hated those shots, because I always threw up at least once after getting them, but at least I lived.

So, I get it--I was lucky to be born into a family that could afford healthcare in the United States where medicines are readily available, and maybe I'm letting some sort of "privilege" show when I say that medicinal affordability is not a "basic human right," but I still stand by that assertion, even knowing how heartless it may sound.

I'm a big believer that there is a necessary order to life, which includes death by diseases (and trust me, I've dealt with enough death by disease in people I know to understand how painful it is to go through, especially diseases like Alzheimer's). I'm also a big believer that many modern medicines are actually as detrimental to the health of people as are the diseases they claim to fight (or, at least, extend life, but make people miserable while on the drugs).

Regardless, we agree about the relatively simple ways that the cost of meds could drop, making them more accessible to those who need it, so I think that we're on the same page there.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Get government out of the market and it wouldn't be an issue. Monopolies cannot exist without a government there to hold them in place.

originally posted by: LordSatan
a reply to: dreamingawake

Get government out of the market and it wouldn't be an issue. Monopolies cannot exist without a government there to hold them in place.

Government is currently in the market to offset risk. Because people rip off drugs and make generics, we subsidize the cost of developing drugs so they don't have to be sold for as much. If you get them out, there's not going to be any new medications being developed, because companies can't afford $5 billion in R&D per drug.

a reply to: Bluesma

even though I like capitalism, and I think profit is good, I think some areas of life, like the necessities of survival, should be apart from that market.

I agree. This is why most countries have universal healthcare.

They shouldn't be sent down the river into profiteering. Despite the claims that only the US is developing new drugs, other countries are innovating just as much, some even more, and even when their medical system is a universal non-profit type.

Yup!

Here is just one recent example of how dysfunctional, immoral and greedy the U.S gov and U.S Big Pharma is:

Here in Canada, independent scientific research and development organizations for pharmaceuticals and vaccines is often funded by government grants, or by non profit organizations and/or by medical establishments at the university level.

Canada developed a promising vaccine for the Ebola virus, which it licensed for $205,000 to a U.S. company that flipped it to Merck in 2014 for $50 million (U.S.).

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, but putting a price on health for obscene profit is disgusting. Although the lines often become blurred between capitalism and greed; there is a difference between the two when morals are weighed.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: dreamingawake

Right.

So I take it that the people will be out on the streets, en masse, that no one will be going to work today, that everyone will be out protesting and demanding an immediate change to this set of circumstances?

Or is this issue not sexy enough? Does it not appeal to the lower instincts held by those who occupy the extremes of politics? Does it not press the buttons? Does it not put fire under a person in enough quantity to make a good old fashioned, nation wide walk out a reality? Are American people enjoying the boot across their neck, rather than being prepared to throw it off, as in times past?

Looks like you misread what I was saying? No, no, no, no, not everyone is going to rally in the streets. Anyway the reason why I shared the bottom part was because of the demonstration that was planned for the day ahead.

As well as that the WH petition(nope can't share here) Kratom petition is well over it's goal on signatures. Sometimes these are addressed by the WH. It was also suggested to me in another thread if i want to post this types of news I should add a solution. I offered one that is similar to what is being held with the concerned shared. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: TrueBrit

The issue is, and with the world being more connected than ever is an odd issue, is that there's no good way to really get the message out there to all the right people to make the right ripple.

Frankly there's too much crap littered all over the web and every news source to accomplish anything, not to mention too many things to be upset about.

Over here people are upset over the pipeline, over here Hillary being sick, over here some mean thing Trump said, over here some conflict between a police officer and a black man, this thread the Big Pharma Monopoly, over here sex slavery, over here people still talking about wedding cakes, over here... etc...

I'm actually kind of worried nothing will be big enough to really get everyone's attention focused at one time...

Assuming you all would be happy if I only posted political partisan threads like everyone else. Sorry for sharing news that didn' make it to the MSM and won't make it there. I see you're still rather new here, it's always like this and has always been when trying to follow news. Not everyone will focus on certain bigger issues especially during the political season where everyone, speaking of division, is divided by that.

Highlighted in particular,

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Puppylove

So, let me get this straight. What you are basically saying is that the control program is working perfectly? That it is working so well that your universities can find a way to PROVE that the drug companies are operating a powerful monopoly, and KILLING your citizens by over prescribing, by preventing the distribution of drugs that are better for people and cheaper too, and insisting that people either pay up or die from their ailments, and yet nothing will happen because there is a lot of information out there, too much of it?

I rather think the problem is straight laziness. You have to be a massive clod to allow the signal to be lost in the noise, no matter how noisy the space you are in may be.

I would tend to agree- partly.

But sometimes there is more to it.

There are conflicting American values at issue. Like capitalism and free market- in Europe, the government gets involved because they are involved in buying the drugs. Since it is the universal medical care paying, they have an interest in keeping those prices affordable.

This is fine in European countries, where the people consider the government as their servant, speaking and acting on their behalf (the money being spent by the government is theirs, so they want the government to not let private industry abuse it).

But in America, the people do not see the government as their servant, and do not want it involved in the process. The majority believes in the self regulating power of capitalism. Look at this thread! Government is bad guy and individual entities are always good guys! This abuse couldn't be the result of private enterprises being greedy, they are good- it must be that the government made it happen.

But also, our individualist-based values come into play in the question of advertising.
People want to feel they have power, as consumers. Power comes with responsibility. Knowledge is power.
Here in France, there is no advertising for drugs. People go to their doctor, they listen to their doctor, they take what the doctor says to take! They are often largely ignorant of what is available as treatment. This, Americans would have trouble with.

Right now, they might rale on about this...but then tell them, okay, we'll cut the price down, but no more ads. You just trust your doctor and let him take control of your treatment entirely, okay?

Urm...hmmm...eh..wait...

We don't feel that comfortable with trusting others, actually....
Independance and freedom are like everything else- they have their benefits and disadvantages...

The government should be the service, we own them not the other way around. The system is run on Crony Capitalism. No ones saying it's solely on the government. And yes the people are responsible for being complacent for so long not to have the proper checks and balances so this doesn't happen.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I understand... adaptation to adversity such as sickness or environmental hazards is how we grow evolve and adapt. Your illness was evolution taking place in your body to learn grow and adapt... of course not being able to evolve or adapt quick enough? Required medicine that was available.

If you are happy that you did not die and survived? Then what about those that could but can never reach that same feeling and instead will die even though the medicine or technology is there and the only thing preventing it is excuses.

a reply to: Edumakated

This is why healthcare should not be a for profit enterprise. The bottom line becomes more important than lives.

Socialized healthcare is the sign of a civilized society, putting profits before lives is a sign of a demented society.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Well, to be fair (in America, at least), no one can be turned away from a hospital simply because they don't have insurance or cannot show proof of ability to pay for treatment.

I understand that prescription meds are a different issue altogether, but if it came down to it and I had zero insurance, the hospital would still save my life, even if I could never repay it.

So, in a sense (again, in America, at least), everyone does have a right to medical treatment, just maybe not prescription meds. But, at the same time, there are a lot of different ways that those who cannot afford the medication can get help so that they can have access to it (or something similar that will help the medical problem). It's not perfect, but then again, draining every individual's bank account to provide a right to this type of thing isn't perfect, either, especially in a place like America where medical issues are over-diagnosed and expensive medication is over-prescribed.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I have seen this occur and the excuse has been the possibility of a lawsuit... whether that was simply discrimination of the hospital itself? I cannot say, typically the wait time is also relative to how fast your insurance and identification can be processed it can mean the difference between minutes or hours. So it's best to go in to one you likely would or have than one you haven't if there's a wish to be seen sooner. I saw a fellow writhing in pain from an accidental gunshot wound... for over an hour, because his family drove him there instead of calling an ambulance which would have taken him right on in as policy while receiving treatment on the way... a line is a line and that wait depends on that insurance processing in an ER waiting room.

This has been my experience when having to go for various things in different states and different hospitals for various things from kidneys stones(in the past thanks to pure lemonade) to a dislocated shoulder, broken arm or whatever.

The healthcare is wide and varied and it really depends on the place you go to as far as policy even though there may be laws... but such is the nature of private health care you really get what you pay for including nothing sometimes if you can't.

Intellectual Property laws, are Criminalizing thought, ideas, thinking, and sharing of ideas, freedom of speech. Fundamentally they're opposed not just to natural rights but to the laws enshrined in the constitution. Essentially, they are unconstitutional. The fact they've held so long just shows the corruption in the system, and the lack of fitness of our judges, of our rulers, of our government.

Didn't the say that companies are persons and money is speech? So money is speech but ideas are not?

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You know whats funny hypothetically if there was catastrophic inflation you couldnt wire certain quantities of money to other people. The precise quantity is owned as IP by someone

Those quantities that exactly matched copyrighted files digital numbers. Well these are certain numerical quantities that are owned by someone. You can neither price something at such quantities nor pay those precise quantities, even if the dollar massively devalued and you had enough to pay such precise quantities.

Amazing right one would think one is free to price something or sell something at arbitrarily high numbers... but not so certain prices are reserved as copyright and publishing these is illegal. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw such ridiculousness

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

That's not just in private healthcare.

Try being a "dependent" (family member) in the military and using the hospital on post and see how long you wait for things, to include (and this wait can be especially ridiculous) the issuance of the prescribed medication.

a reply to: projectvxn

That is it. Best summary ever of the problem of increasing prices in healthcare. Nice.

We need deregulation and competition in healthcare, IMHO

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Been there... of course my parents were adverse to healthcare until they got older we had to be on deaths door before going in for a visit of course the very religious one wanted faith healing. Evolution isn't fast enough for prayers... although that placebo effect is a thing.