Climate Change Denial: Why?

a reply to: PublicOpinion

So Al Gore managed to mess with all the data imaginable, from now on to eternity? How did he manage to pull that off?

If Al Gore had just stayed on the family farm in Carthage, Tennessee growing tobacco and hay and raising cattle, there would have been no climate change. That makes sense.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: chadderson

Like: what about this stuff?
I'm glad that the coral reefs are okay.
I'm sad that sea turtles have security sentinels so they can lay their eggs on the beaches of Barbados and leave them....

ever read Horton Hatches The Egg?

I'll be really happy when it turns out that bees aren't dying and monarch butterflies still exist, and that farmlands are no longer barren....

when the Ganges river is clean, and the Missouri river too! When Toxic Algae isn't poisoning the shore of Florida, and birds aren't covered in oil.....
Those things, see, they aren't okay. Coral reefs are just one less victim. Thank God.

That isn't climate change, that is environmentalism.

If we would all just do as best we can as individuals to keep our environment as clean as possible and play nice with its inhabitants, we'd be okay.

But none of that is about climate change--the climate (which is a long-term thing, not a short-term issue) will always keep on its oscillating pattern of warming and freezing, with all kinds of anomalies contained within said pattern. Just because there is some evidence (much of not convincing, IMO) that we are in one of those (warming) anomalies doesn't mean that the earth, or our children's experience on this planet is in jeopardy.

You speak about doing "'outdoor' stuff," but just keep in mind that when humans and other homo-(instert name here) species were surviving and truly living in the outdoors, they encountered climate change as well. You know what they did? They adapted or died.

What we need to do, with our supposed infinite wisdom as modern humans, is remember that adaptation is the key to surviving on this planet, not trying to change or alter what is happening on this planet. MAYBE we caused this current short-term anomaly of warming, but it will correct itself, even without our help, but like I said, if we would just all do our own little parts in our own areas of the world, we'll all be fine.

That's what I try to do, and that's what I teach my children. But I'll tell you this--any government-run program that claims to be an attempt to "fix" the effects of AGW (a term that you never even hear anymore) is nothing more than a scheme to get more power, money, and control in the hands of the government, and I can do everything short of guarantee you that THIS is the biggest reason why people oppose these claimed government "fixes" and why we tend to question the accuracy of the claims in the first place.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
But I'll tell you this--any government-run program that claims to be an attempt to "fix" the effects of AGW (a term that you never even hear anymore) is nothing more than a scheme to get more power, money, and control in the hands of the government, and I can do everything short of guarantee you that THIS is the biggest reason why people oppose these claimed government "fixes" and why we tend to question the accuracy of the claims in the first place.

Exactly.

How anyone can outright trust the government when money/power is involved is beyond me.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You know the answer to that.

Its all about money and control.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: network dude

a "sad" response?

What did you want me to say? Just make your point. I'm feeling a little defensive right now, for some inexplicable reason!!! Just like most others on here!

Acting like a fool will do that to you. Go back and read my responses then look at yours. If you can't figure it out, well, derp.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

What we need to do, with our supposed infinite wisdom as modern humans, is remember that adaptation is the key to surviving on this planet, not trying to change or alter what is happening on this planet. MAYBE we caused this current short-term anomaly of warming, but it will correct itself, even without our help, but like I said, if we would just all do our own little parts in our own areas of the world, we'll all be fine.

Back in the old days of dinosaurs there was a certain amount of gross carbon and hydrogen on the surface of the planet and in the atmosphere. It was unlikely that humans would have evolved or lived long in that environment. Some cataclysm caused a vast amount of the gross carbon and hydrogen to be buried under the earth, removing them from the net above ground quantity. Humans evolved in that environment.

By pulling the hydrocarbons from the earth and burning them, humans are effectively returning the Earth's surface and atmosphere to pre-human conditions. Perhaps those pre-human conditions will not be conducive to human existence.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I dont deny Climate change... in fact I dont think I have ever met anyone that out right denies it...

I count myself among the many, that question the official narrative that mankind is responsible for 99% of the change...

Add in all the admissions of doctored, or poorly adjusted numbers... and having questions are a good thing, some of the ideas put forth by "experts" as solutions scares me... until the rhetoric on both sides calms down I doubt we will ever see a calm rational discussion.

a reply to: pthena

It's always great to have a scapegoat at hand, innit? I'm still wondering how the heck he managed to get the temperature records straight in line years later. Probably some sinister black and oily magic trick or something...

That's a powerfull spell, let's blaim the masons! He's probably just a pawn in this game of oils and they would've invented another Manchurian Candidate to bring the climate change if he would've stayed on that farm in Tennessee. Fricken masonic shamans...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How anyone can outright trust the government when money/power is involved is beyond me.

The day that accepting the official government version of 9/11 = No building came down

will be the day that

Data tampering = There is no human caused climate change.

originally posted by: pthena
Back in the old days of dinosaurs there was a certain amount of gross carbon and hydrogen on the surface of the planet and in the atmosphere.

Wait. Did you just make that s*** up? Are you claiming that unbound hydrogen atoms were just sitting around on the planet and in the atmosphere?

You are aware that unbound hydrogen has a velocity greater than required to escape the earth, right? There has always been very little hydrogen and helium in the atmosphere.

Even if you try to claim that it is bound hydrogen the percentage has always been historically low (around 1% +/-).

a reply to: Irishhaf

I count myself among the many, that question the official narrative that mankind is responsible for 99% of the change...

Who says that??

I haven't heard anyone say that 99% of it is due to human activity. That's obviously false.
It is happening. Can we rally to help mitigate/prepare? I hope so. That's all I'm suggesting. That we pay attention to what is actually happening, and do what we can to reduce the harm caused by our activity. Because our activities are exacerbating the problem (we as a specie, that is).

Thanks

originally posted by: pthena
Data tampering = There is no human caused climate change.

Not sure why it has to be an all or nothing approach with you hardcores. If the data is tampered with/compromised it means that the actual percentage of human contribution is not accurate (not that I have seen a number pegged to it anyway).

a reply to: network dude

This is off topic. If you'd like to take over the thread, feel free.
I'm not acting like a fool as far as I can tell. Anyway - thread is not about me, or my style.


Sorry if I haven't been clear enough for your taste.
Thanks for participating. What do you suggest we ought to do, or ought to not do, to make our lives less uncomfortable due to weather changing?
Or seas rising?

(Oh, and to whoever earlier said that 1.8 degrees isn't much - I understand why you see it that way. I kinda do, too. But still - I adjust my thermostat in my home one or two degrees at a time, and it really does make a difference for my comfort. Seventy two degrees is too chilly for me. Seventy four is perfect. Seventy six is starting to feel warm. It really does matter! Likewise, our fresh-water fish tank - has to be kept at a regulated precise temp. Too high, and fish die. Too low, and fish die.)

Also - trees are very important. We had ours trimmed back over the winter. Now the places that used to be shaded are turning brown or bleached - they used to stay green and colorful.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

That's a powerfull spell, let's blaim the masons!

I can't tell if you're serious about masons or not. I had some Mason friends back in the days when the existence of AIDS was being debated. They did not strike me as the type who would have swallowed the Bush era propaganda of "It's not happening."

Seriously, that propaganda is the only explanation for denial that I can think of.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
But I'll tell you this--any government-run program that claims to be an attempt to "fix" the effects of AGW (a term that you never even hear anymore) is nothing more than a scheme to get more power, money, and control in the hands of the government, and I can do everything short of guarantee you that THIS is the biggest reason why people oppose these claimed government "fixes" and why we tend to question the accuracy of the claims in the first place.

Exactly.

How anyone can outright trust the government when money/power is involved is beyond me.

You're confusing two seperate topics.

The data can be verified via decent and unbiased sources, as it's abundancy is pretty overwhelming by now. You don't need to trust any gubbermint, Al Gore or the Masons over that point.

'Chemtrailing' or weather modification on the other hand, is just the same old madness in a new cloth and precisely part of the problem which brought us here in the first place. On that part I do agree.

Quick reply to make perfectly clear that

I DO NOT THINK HUMANS CAUSED IT ENTIRELY.
I never said that, I do not think it. The thread is about the phenomenom of Climate Change, which is very real.
The question was to those who think it is NOT REAL.

Specifically, WHY do people anywhere DENY that the Climate is Changing?

Because it is. And we are having an impact. However small or incidental, even if the Climate Change isn't due to human activity - shouldn't we still do what we can to CLEAN UP OUR ACT?

sheesh.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Wait. Did you just make that s*** up? Are you claiming that unbound hydrogen atoms were just sitting around on the planet and in the atmosphere?

I don't have my chemistry book close by. I don't think I'm writing about unbound hydrogen. Hydrocarbons and Carbohydrates both contain hydrogen, right? Plants, animals, coal, oil, right? Burning releases carbon and hydrogen right?

Even if you try to claim that it is bound hydrogen the percentage has always been historically low (around 1% +/-).

The carbon released by burning joins with oxygen, CO2, a greenhouse gas. By burning coal, oil, natural gas, humans take what was once removed from the net above ground quantity and adds to it.

ETA I don't much appreciate you calling my beliefs s***

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
You're confusing two seperate topics.

No, am I not.

Carbon cap and trade schemes are a scam which uses fearmongering and propaganda to support the wealth acquisition of a few at the cost of many.

The data can be verified via decent and unbiased sources, as it's abundancy is pretty overwhelming by now.

Is it? Then how much, by percentage, is attributable to human action?

'Chemtrailing' or weather modification on the other hand, is just the same old madness in a new cloth and precisely part of the problem which brought us here in the first place. On that part I do agree.

Not sure what chemtrails have to do with anything, I am not a believer of that nonsense.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sorry didnt mean to imply you specifically... I have a tendency to be labeled a denier because I do not think we are the driving factor... do we have an influence yup no doubt, every living thing on the planet has an influence on it.

I also think we should get off fossil fuels, and work on living more within nature rather than bull doze everything and put up monstrous cities of concrete and steel...

But then I am weird, and have a deep distrust of any govt driven "solution" to the problem...

Honestly dont think we can stop it, and it would probably save more lives to instead figure out how to live with an adapt to the coming changes.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I agree with you whole-heartedly.
Thank you. I am glad that you stopped by.

Wanna go have a coffee?