Ive been reading into the Knights templar a lot since I saw the movie Revalations.. The Knights templar gaurded a route from Europe to the holyland from Muslam raiders. They had taken an oath of poverty but recived glamours gifts from pilgrams and people the helped and also had the best banking system at that time. No here is where it gets me .. They got all these gifts from the holy land right ( the grail for ex) and had loads of artifacts and knowlege of a lot of things relating to Jesus etc. But WHERE IS IT ALL NOW ?? LOST OR HIDDEN??

Itz was all confiscated by the the Vatican and their Jesuit leaders... You have to remember the Catholic church raped the world of all of itz wonders... They burned down the Great Library of Alexandria which contained most of the Greek and Roman technological and engineering secrets... They've hidden and denied the existence of other books such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Gospel of St. Thomas... I don't mean to offend any1 who'z Catholic, I'm talking about the ppl at the top, the Cardinals and the Pope are the one's who have everything in Vatican City. It's all in one of those giant under ground storage facilities.

Well I generally avoid the Jesuits because any order directly connected with the Catholic Church (KoC, Jesuits, Knights of Malta) are pretty non-influential these days.

The Knights Templar never recieved stuff such as the Holy Grail. In fact, they also recieved very little from their "pilgrims" because they spent almost NO time protecting pilgrims.

Most of their time was spent (during the Crusades), in warfare, and when the Crusades were halted, most of their time was spent shipping.

Hence the lost fleet of the Templars (thought to have gone to Scotland).

Anyways, myth and legends built up around them, people thought of them as Wizards, and as sages who could fortell the future. None of which is true. But it further increased their power, and while it was strongly used against them in their persecution, it was due to this myth that many peoples who would have normally persecuted them, did not.

In England Edward did little persecution, and only acted under threat of Excommunication, and even then, very little was done.

After 1313 AD all Templar property was transfered to the Hospitallers. (The Templars amassed wealth by taking wealthy lords into their fold, who submitted all lands to them).

Now those lands belonged to the Hospitallers, in theory. For over 50 years most lands were still opperated as though they were Templar lands.

And in 1380s during the peasant revolts those lands were unharmed while other Hospitaller holdings were destroyed. (Born in Blood John J. Robinson).

Anyways, they definately never had anything such as a "relic" in case you didn't know relics were all fakes. Like Unicorn horns.

And the Jesuits have little to do with anything. Especially today.

I suggest "Dungeon Fire and Sword by John J. Robinson" for those interested in more about the Templars in a direct historical manner.

In the same section you'll find that book you'll find other books about them that covers less than fully verifiable theories.

The Knights Templars are another one of my secret interests. I have an interesting book I purchased while researching a book I'm writing:

The Templars' Secret Island; The Knights, The Priest and The Treasure by Erling Haagensen and Henry Lincoln. It focuses on research done on the Baltic island of Bornholm (which belongs to Denmark).

Here's a blurb from the inside cover of the book:
"Bornholm is a tiny island in the Baltic Sea barely twenty miles by ten. Its fifteen extraordinary medieval churches and many hundreds of standing stones mark the island out as a sacred site since remote antiquity."

These churches were believed to have been built by or used by the Knights Templar.

Henry Lincoln is also the author of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, The Messianic Legacy, The Holy Place and The Key to the Sacred Pattern.

heres what I can tell you from what I remember.

Yes, "The Knights templar gaurded a route from Europe to the holyland from Muslam raiders." but they had desention in the ranks. Not all of them were as "Holy" as was first thought. These certain templars succombed to the Catholathic greed, and divided the original ranks of the Templars. With that at hand it's almost obvious why every thing that happened...did.

I have met with current groups who claim to have been members of modern groups. I even held one of the ceremonial swords, every sword has a family name on it. although they look nothing like the original one did, as they were for more than wearing.

The Templars never had a schism of greed in their ranks.

When a lord became a knight he'd surrender all his property to the order, and hence their emense wealth.

Their shipping, and industries involving the Crusades gave them priviledges over the Pope, which in tie with Banking became basically more powerful than the pope.

In early 1300s King Phillip of France decided to take over all properties of the Templars, and so secretly ordered their arrest on Friday the 13th, 1307 Ocotober.

(guess where that little myth comes from).

It wasn't as secret as he thought and all the Templar's liquidatable assets had been moved to who knows where, presumed Scotland.

The Templars while faithful to the Church, grew wiser than even most clergy at that time, due to their much travels and sharing information of the travels.

Such knowledge included ancient Pagan beliefs and the like.

None of the allegations against them were ever true when considering the whole order, though maybe a few members did turn out homosexuals.

Do you personally know every detail about the templars? I know those who remained Templars swore to the highest virtue of modesty, but not everyone could be a "Templar".

The Templars were far more strict in whom they chose to be members, they did after all turn down the King of France (wisely though it cost them their demise).

While you'd get a few who'd be less than virtuous, it would never be as bad as people on the outside would be.

Although I am no expert on the history of the Templars, I do know quite a bit about biblical artifacts.
Many believe that the holy grail has been lost in time and is waiting to be discovered. We can thank George Lucas for this. The fact is, the chances that the holy grail actually exists is highly unlikely. Although Jesus did share the last supper with his disciples, the though that someone might have preserved the cup is false. Jesus taught that worldy posessions were of no matter and had no value. His disciples would not have wanted to cherish the cup because they knew it was of no great importance. Now the possiblity of someone else taking the cup and perserving it, that is a little more likely, but still highly questionable.

Last year I read the book “Mūžības Mašīna” (Translation to Latvian of the book “DIE EWIGKEITS-MASCHINE” written by Johannes und Peter Fiebag). There was written that before The Council of Troyes templars were small religious group. For about 10 years they were studying ancient Hebrew texts and searching for something in Jerusalem. Only after they found “it” in Troyes was arranged a Council where Templars order was founded. And, as authors think, most of the Templar treasures gone to Philip IV, but the most important of all templar treasures - The Baphomet is hidden somewhere in Oak Island.

Not sure if it was mentioned above, but KTs are today a side order of Royal Arch Freemasonry.

The Knights Templars ( plural to be strictly accurate) were a fascinating military/priestly organisation (not all were soldiers) who came into being to protect Jerusalem after the Crusaders recaptured it.
Their immediate downfall was indeed Philip the Fair of France: their wealth was vast (much invested in London) and a lot of it ultimately went to the Hospitallers.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the Jesuits and the Popes were very much on their side:despite great French pressure the Pope dissolved them: he did not condemn them - and this was an apostolic decree not a penal sentence: property wasn't confiscated: rather it was attached to church property to avoid all taxes (no doubt a part of Philip's thinking).
They had their enemies and the secrecy of their rituals spread charges of heresy etc. but on balance the jury is still out and the scales are generally tilted to the view that they were usually the good guys.
Their bravery and prowess are beyond doubt and they must be unique as a militant Christian organisation.
Their secrecy, like their valour, has inspired hosts of writers: from drivel-mongers to scholars and one can well see why.

No Estragon Actually to be accurate it is "Knights Templar" for the same reasons it is "Holy Saints John" when talking about the two Johns. (actually it's probably more the reason of Knights of the Temple, while Saints John is some other rule in english...whatever you get the idea).

And almost none of the Templar property actually made it into Hospitaller hands, the Hospitallers opened a seperate "financial branch" that handled the transactions of the Templar property, for almost 30 years after the Hospitallers were supposed to aquire all of the Templar's assets, they had barely aquired even 15% of it.

What they had aquired was put with-holding and marked as being Templar.

Most of what the Hospitallers did take, was later destroyed in the Peasant rebellions in the late 1300s, and or returned to property owners who then cared for the property.

More or less it's a myth of people who don't follow the paper trail, that the Hospitallers aquired any Templar holdings in any real way.

Hi, F-M: let's agree to differ on the Plural: (but away from Baphomet, Rosslyn, Solomon, the Priory of Zion,the Grail and the rest I'll stay with the plural)
Out of genuine historical interest (since this isn't in Relig&Spit) I'd welcome some links on the Hospitallers not getting the loot: apart from Aragon (Spain) and Portugal and the rip-offs of Philip in France, I'd always been of the opinion that the Hospitallers did quite nicely.

As for the "choosiness" of the KT, my understanding of their rule is that they were something of a Foreign Legion and were even willing to accept the excommunicated as long as they swore to be "serf et esclave de la maison": servant and slave of the House. There was much talk of a "secret" test to determine sincerity -this (as is the way with secret tests) remains unknown and has fired ample speculation.
I am interested to read that Philip IV was turned down: I'm not sure how he might ahve joined: on the other hand, he consistently professed to want to lead a crudsdae.
I'd welcome some historical links, as I say.

More like this sort of stuff?

THE HOSPITALLERS
Select Chronology
1113 First papal privilege for the Hospital of St John.
1120-1160 Creation of infirmary; Formation of Hospitaller Rule.
1148 Attack on Damascus.
1187 Battle of Hattin; fall of Jerusalem & move to Acre.
1192 Advise Richard I of England against attack on Jerusalem.
1218 Partake in siege of Damietta.
1271 Join Edward (later Edward I) of England's crusade.
1289 Involved in unsuccessful defence of Tripoli.
1291 Forced out of Acre to Cyprus.
1306 Hospitallers begin invasion of Rhodes.
1310 Hospitaller Crusade consolidates control of Rhodes.
1311 Hospitaller headquarters established on Rhodes.
1312 May 2: Property of suppressed Templars granted to Hospitallers by Clement V.
1374 Hospitallers take over defence of Smyrna.
1377 Achaea leased for 5 years to Hospitallers.
1378 Hospitaller master Juan Fernández de Heredia captured by the Albanians.
1402 December: Smyrna falls to Tamerlane.
1440-1444 Mamluks attack Rhodes.
1480 Turkish siege of Rhodes.
1522 July-18 December: Turkish siege of Rhodes. 1523 January 1: Hospitallers leave Rhodes.
1530 March 23: Hospitallers given Malta & Tripoli by Charles V.
1535 Participation in Charles V's capture of Tunis.
1540 Confiscation of Hospitallers' property in England.
1551 August 14: Hospitallers surrender Tripoli to Turks.
1565 May 19-September 8: Great Siege of Malta by Turks.
1571 Part of papal force in the Battle of Lepanto.
1614 Malta raided by Turks.
1664 Hospitallers attack Algiers.
1707 Hospitallers help defend Oran.
1792 Hospitaller property in France seized.
1798 June 13: Malta surrenders to Napoleon.