It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is Chistine Horner Right on her Opinion about Centurion famous Phrase to Jesus?

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 07:51 AM
link   
The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,


St Matthew 8,
The Faith of the Centurion (Luke 7:1-10; John 4:43-54) 5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came and pleaded with Him, 6“Lord, my servant lies at home, paralyzed and in terrible agony.” 7“I will go and heal him,” Jesus replied. 8The centurion answered, “Lord, I am not worthy to have You come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell one to go, and he goes; and another to come, and he comes. I tell my servant to do something, and he does it.”


It is not a secret that unfortunately Christianism has been plagued of heresies even since the first century A.D. , misinterpreted or deformed
by people that believe to understand it in a unique way but that in the end of the story are mixing other kind of ideas that has nothing to do
with Jesus with what he actually taught with his words and actions.

Trully Christianism is a religion of actions, not just of mere rituals or of words, that creates a huge distinction with respect to other religions and particularly with respect to the other Abrahamic ones, like Islam or Hebrew faiths. Islam as well as Judaism are religions mainly focused in rituals and words but with clear deficit in actions. Actual Christianism is not a biblio-idolatric religion, it does not look for veneration of phrases , but for imitation of examples, and the phrase of the centurion is of course an example of faith. It is not enough to read the Bible to be saved, it is required to live it.

Moreover, the incident of the centurion opened the opportunity for Jesus to prophecy the conversion of millions of gentiles at future to the true faith, something that History has showed is right now an accomplished fact.


Along all his public life Jesus was extremely clear in his criticize of the pharisees that were people obsessed with rituals, formulas and the reading of the word of God, but extremely poor in to put it to practice, he even attacked them as hypocritical persons.

Jesus called his followers to Action, not just to spend all our lives in unending rituals or services and repeating like parrots fragments of the gospel, he was clear that salvation is achieved first through the grace of God, but second through the wisdom of the people that do what he taught, the practice the values he predicated, like Charity and other ways of Love for others.

In today's confusion about what is really theologically Christian and what Not , there is a lady that has posted a letter to the Holy father asking him to end one of the most traditional parts of the mass arguing that is against the human dignity, that it is a reaffirmation of inferiority complex or even of antique practices of Slavery.

This is what this confused lady Christine Horner has written in her published letter to the Pope:

Please check:

www.huffingtonpost.com...


Dear Pope Francis,

Every single day before communion, millions of Christians verbally declare one of the most destructive phrases in human history. On Sunday, it’s tens of millions if not a half billion of the over one billion Catholic Christians worldwide—and not without repercussions. In the Bible, a Centurion soldier relates, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof...” (Matthew 8:8) before recounting the inner workings of the blindness of patriarchal hierarchies and slavery that exists to this day.



Applying religious context, what’s important for Christians to note is that the soldier uttered the phrase pre-salvation. An unsaved (ignorant) man sharing his feelings and a religion demanding a billion saved Christians repeat the phrase daily post-salvation are entirely two different matters. Dialogue and constructs that perpetuate “I am not worthy” are the root of all evil behavior.



Negative reinforcement is not the answer to dwindling faith. The renewal of hope and joyful living are found by reconnecting with the goodness within one another, our bountiful Earth and all of Creation, which is God.


And this is what Jesus himself said and thought about the Phrase of that Roman centurion that was able to see the healing power that was in the Messiah:


10When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you.” And his servant was healed at that very hour.


So to whom are we going to listen, to this confused woman that is trying to interpret out of context a phrase,using modern politics, sociological theories, Autosuggestion techniques and psychoanalysis points of view against this that is one of the strongest affirmations of the power of faith to solve really complicate situations in life or to Jesus himself, who came from God and that is the source also of all love?

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 7/15/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 08:05 AM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

If one can't humble themselves before God, there is no humility to be found in them.

I think our world would be a better place if more people were humble.

The part that the Catholics utter is about oneself.... not slaves and servants.
edit on b000000312016-07-15T08:07:58-05:0008America/ChicagoFri, 15 Jul 2016 08:07:58 -0500800000016 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 08:49 AM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light


Is Chistine Horner Right on her Opinion about Centurion famous Phrase to Jesus?

Yes. She's mostly right. How blasphemous of her to point out what should be obvious.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 09:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: The angel of light


Is Chistine Horner Right on her Opinion about Centurion famous Phrase to Jesus?

Yes. She's mostly right. How blasphemous of her to point out what should be obvious.


Wow what an interesting statement, I actually agree with you Klass
I think we have different reasons for our opinion but I know you won't have the courage to share your opinion, you probably don't have an opinion, just making a statement for a reaction
Kinda like those black lives matter people who just want to fight and argue

She is wrong but in being wrong it makes her right, right because while we don't deserve salvation we are given it and we must learn it's a gift we have to accept
We must accept Christ coming into our homes, a holy and righteous man, coming in to clean up our disgusting lives
We don't deserve it but we must accept it

We are not worthy but we must accept Him in our lives, we must invite Him in

So yes we should understand our unworthiness but welcome God in joyfully, simple



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 09:52 AM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

No, absolutely wrong, first we all know that no body is perfect, any member of the human specie has committed mistakes in his or her life.

So to assume that our self esteem is based on our belief that we are perfect beings is delusion, and that is precisely what this lady is proposing.

She is far to be a Christian authority but the author of a book awakening Leadership in which she gives her own interpretation of Mindfulness philosophy. She is a professional writer, that works as columnist, and Post blogger for The Huffington Post, that is where she has published her personal article masked in the form of an innocent open letter to the Pope.

Pls check:

www.amazon.com...

The Roman centurion phrase is refers to :

1) The recognition of our human condition, that is limited, we can't be perfect beings, that is not the way our biology works, we need to learn and by committing mistakes is the way we do it.

2) He is also exalting the power of faith with his attitude, he knows that his prayer if it is being answered by God is the solution of a huge problem, he trusted in God. .

3) He is showing great love for a person that has been to his service, somebody that he even suggest he loves as much as to be a son, so nothing to do with slavery mentality at all. St John 4:43 is a crossed reference of that passage of St Matthew 8, overthere it is clear that the sick person was considered an adoptive son.

What the author Christine Horner is claiming that when we recognize that we can be wrong sometimes, that we are not an ideal but a real person, we are denying ourselves, that is ridicule and also insane. She also continue by arguing that the centurion was treating his servant with despotism, something is absolutely no sense if we read the entire passage in the gospel.

Her statements are just an exaltation of the ego, is a sign of our morally sick times, in which people want to change dramatically the understanding of human problems by living their lives centered just in themselves, so everybody is basically considering himself or herself God.

She is not really discussing Christian values, she has dared to suggest to the Pope that the standards of Ayn Rand, a self proclaimed modern philosopher obsessed with the idea that egotism and narcissism are the correct measure of a realized humanity, are the appropriate ones for Christianity, in her absurd criticism against Catholicism.

That probably works well in Hercules Shrugged, I am even doubtful that it really represents the essence of mindfulness, but what I am sure is that it has nothing to do with the Gospel.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 7/15/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 10:53 AM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman


These are the two other crossed references of the same passage, from the gospels of St Luke and St John. Notice that the last one clearly say that this sick person was considered as a son, so in order to maintain consistency with the other two references that talk about a servant we can assume it was treated as an adoptive son.


St John 4, Jesus Heals an Official’s Son
43 After the two days he left for Galilee.
44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.)
45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, for they also had been there.
46 Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum.
47 When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.
48 “Unless you people see signs and wonders,” Jesus told him, “you will never believe.”
49 The royal official said, “Sir, come down before my child dies.”
50 “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.” The man took Jesus at his word and departed.
51 While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living.
52 When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, “Yesterday, at one in the afternoon, the fever left him.”
53 Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and his whole household believed.
54 This was the second sign Jesus performed after coming from Judea to Galilee.



St Luke, The Faith of the Centurion
7 When Jesus had finished saying all this to the people who were listening, he entered Capernaum.
2 There a centurion’s servant, whom his master valued highly, was sick and about to die.
3 The centurion heard of Jesus and sent some elders of the Jews to him, asking him to come and heal his servant.
4 When they came to Jesus, they pleaded earnestly with him, “This man deserves to have you do this,
5 because he loves our nation and has built our synagogue.”
6 So Jesus went with them. He was not far from the house when the centurion sent friends to say to him: “Lord, don’t trouble yourself, for I do not deserve to have you come under my roof.
7 That is why I did not even consider myself worthy to come to you. But say the word, and my servant will be healed. 8 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
9 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.”
10 Then the men who had been sent returned to the house and found the servant well.


When one read these two other versions from the gospels it is clear that what this Author Christine Horner is doing is to try to play the role of Satan, to try to tempt the Pope to carry out a change in liturgy that is not only not needed but absolutely wrong.

It is likely that she is not Catholic at all, possibly even not Christian, she has her own foundation in which she promotes her own philosophy of life, the one that is contained in the books has already published.

Please check:

whatwouldlovedo.org...

awakeningleader.org...

www.christinehorner.com...

Also apparently she has nothing to do with another author also named Dr. Christine Athena Horner, who is Medical Doctor, plastic surgeon and well known for her application of meditation techniques in treatment of Cancer.

Dr Christine Athena Horner, M.D. author

Christine Athena Horner, The Doctor, is famous due to spearheaded legislation in the 1990s that made it mandatory that insurance companies pay for breast reconstruction following mastectomy. Her 5 years crusade--The Breast Advocacy Project--led to the passage of laws in 35 states and a federal law in 1998.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 7/15/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 11:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman


Wow what an interesting statement, I actually agree with you Klass I think we have different reasons for our opinion but I know you won't have the courage to share your opinion, you probably don't have an opinion, just making a statement for a reaction Kinda like those black lives matter people who just want to fight and argue

Now you're just goading.

I do indeed have an opinion. Not that it will matter to you, or anyone else who spends their lives self-loathing, self-debasing, and self deprecating, and then projecting it on everyone else as well. You are worthy. You are deserving. You don't need salvation, and you are not a sinner. You are a human being, and you are perfect as you are, with all of your "flaws".

She is absolutely right, and hits the nail on the head. Nothing good has ever come out of self-hatred, and nothing ever will. Humility is a different matter altogether. We could all use a little humility with each other.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light


No, absolutely wrong, first we all know that no body is perfect, any member of the human specie has committed mistakes in his or her life.

So what? You've made mistakes. Correct them to the best of your ability, and move on with your life. Stop hating yourself, and every other human, because some ancient book tells you to.


So to assume that our self esteem is based on our belief that we are perfect beings is delusion, and that is precisely what this lady is proposing.

Our "perfection" is not predicated on the opinion and demands of a centuries old book. Neither is it decided by those who hate themselves, and all their fellow humans.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:09 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

I don't disagree in anyway shape or form, I find your post very clear and well researched
Let's see if the pope responds and how



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Raggedyman


Wow what an interesting statement, I actually agree with you Klass I think we have different reasons for our opinion but I know you won't have the courage to share your opinion, you probably don't have an opinion, just making a statement for a reaction Kinda like those black lives matter people who just want to fight and argue

Now you're just goading.

I do indeed have an opinion. Not that it will matter to you, or anyone else who spends their lives self-loathing, self-debasing, and self deprecating, and then projecting it on everyone else as well. You are worthy. You are deserving. You don't need salvation, and you are not a sinner. You are a human being, and you are perfect as you are, with all of your "flaws".

She is absolutely right, and hits the nail on the head. Nothing good has ever come out of self-hatred, and nothing ever will. Humility is a different matter altogether. We could all use a little humility with each other.


Why is she right my theologian friend, can you answer the question
Can you offer more than opinion



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified



She is absolutely right, and hits the nail on the head. Nothing good has ever come out of self-hatred, and nothing ever will.


Exactly! I agree 100%


Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


Anyone who tells little children that their existence requires them to see themselves as filthy rags, unworthy of salvation, even life, in my opinion, has committed the unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that resides in each and every wide eyed innocent child. To corrupt that is pure unconscionable evil.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Raggedyman


Wow what an interesting statement, I actually agree with you Klass I think we have different reasons for our opinion but I know you won't have the courage to share your opinion, you probably don't have an opinion, just making a statement for a reaction Kinda like those black lives matter people who just want to fight and argue

Now you're just goading.

I do indeed have an opinion. Not that it will matter to you, or anyone else who spends their lives self-loathing, self-debasing, and self deprecating, and then projecting it on everyone else as well. You are worthy. You are deserving. You don't need salvation, and you are not a sinner. You are a human being, and you are perfect as you are, with all of your "flaws".

She is absolutely right, and hits the nail on the head. Nothing good has ever come out of self-hatred, and nothing ever will. Humility is a different matter altogether. We could all use a little humility with each other.


Why is she right my theologian friend, can you answer the question
Can you offer more than opinion

No theology needed. A little common sense and critical thought goes a long way.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:34 PM
link   
a reply to: windword
True. If a person wants to hate themselves, they can have at it, but don't teach it to children.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 01:38 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

Again, only in an upside down logic somebody can see that the Centurion suffered of self hatred, that is to put his words out of the context they were spoken.

The centurion knowing that Jesus was an extremely busy person in his public ministry, that he was always surrounded by thousands of followers, and the crowds always looked for him to get hundreds of miracles, he decided to send him a message in which he showed that for him was enough that he just decree distantly the healing of his beloved servant, or adoptive son.

He knew that it was unrealistic to expect that Jesus was going to stop his prediction dozens of miles distant from Capernaum to come and operate this particular miracle.

What would you think if somebody praying for a healing, would say to God:


Good Lord I need you come personally, and effect this miracle, otherwise I would interpret your absence here as a manifestation of hatred to me. and Good Lord I am not going to accept that you do this distantly from heaven!


That shows you how insane and ridicule is the claim of Mrs Horner, that is no sense in the context she is trying to analyze the bible. There are no hidden meanings as she claim in the passage, there is no self hatred at all involved there, to the contrary the gesture of the Centurion is an expression of deep and sincere love for his friend, servant or adoptive son, he was literally praying for the healing of another person, where is the self hatred on that? only in a insane mind that is looking for monsters everywhere.

Any argument in that direction is a manipulation and a malicious distortion of the gospels to show what it was never intended to say through them.

Hence, only the Antichrist possibly speaking through the Horner of Satan would distort in such a way the message contained in the passage, to release such a perverse claim of what the scriptures are saying.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 7/15/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 02:04 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light




The centurion knowing that Jesus was an extremely busy person in his public ministry, that he was always surrounded by thousands of followers, and the crowds always looked for him to get hundreds of miracles, he decided to send him a message in which he showed that for him was enough that he just decree distantly the healing of his beloved servant, or adoptive son.


You're reading quite a lot into the story, that just isn't there. The wording is clear. The Centurian said that he "was not worthy have You (Lord Jesus) come under my roof". Therefore, the servant was saved by faith alone. This is the classic message of Christianity....none are worthy for him to enter our house/heart, but by faith we are saved.

Christianity teaches and promotes self worthlessness, which too often translates to self hatred.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 02:45 PM
link   
a reply to: windword

Of course it is part of the original story as the bible tells us, is something that jump from the page just when you compare Luke account with John Account and with St Matthew account of the same fact:


St John 4, Jesus Heals an Official’s Son
43 After the two days he left for Galilee.
44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.)
45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, for they also had been there.
46 Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum.
47 When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.



St Luke 7: 6 So Jesus went with them. He was not far from the house when the centurion sent friends to say to him: “Lord, don’t trouble yourself, for I do not deserve to have you come under my roof.
7 That is why I did not even consider myself worthy to come to you. But say the word, and my servant will be healed.



St. Matthew 8: 5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came and pleaded with Him, 6“Lord, my servant lies at home, paralyzed and in terrible agony.” 7“I will go and heal him,” Jesus replied. 8The centurion answered, “Lord, I am not worthy to have You come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed.


It is clear that Jesus wanted to go in person to make the miracle, he never said he was not going to do it, but the Centurion felt that was too much to ask for, he realized that Jesus was not an ordinary person.

What is actually a false and malicious inference here is to say that Jesus said to the Centurion: Ok, if you hate yourself I am going to do the miracle you are asking me to perform, that madness is what Mrs Horner in her delirium is claiming it is implied in the passage.

Healthy Self worth can't be to think that we are at the same level of God, that we are as great and magnificent than the force that supports the entire cosmos and has created it, that is first an unrealistic expectation and second if the person really believes that is a superiority delirium, a psychological issue that requires therapy.

en.wikipedia.org...


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 7/15/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 04:06 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

The Centurion didn't say, Oh, don't come because you're too busy. He said don't come because I am not worthy.

The moral of the story is, Jesus DIDN'T go to the Centurions house and ally his unworthiness concerns.


And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.


The Centurion believed himself unworthy. The moral of the story is that Christianity teaches that no one is worthy, not the Centurion, not you, not me, not the little innocent and wide eyed children that Jesus beckoned unto him! NO ONE!


edit on 15-7-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 04:08 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light


Again, only in an upside down logic somebody can see that the Centurion suffered of self hatred, that is to put his words out of the context they were spoken.

I wasn't talking about the centurion, he's just a fictional character in a story, that showed humility, and the etiquette of his day. I was talking about Christians who use this verse and many others to justify their depreciation of themselves, and all other humans.
Horner's point was that saying the words "I am not worthy" like it's a mantra is (self)destructive behavior, and flat out wrong. She called a spade a spade. Good for her, having the tenacity to stand up to such delusional thinking.
edit on 7/15/2016 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 06:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

Coming from an atheist who considers humanity naught but animals who have no past and no future and will be nothing
You have an amazing capacity to delusion
Christianity teaches humanity is wonderfully made and that God values humanity so much that He would sacrifice Himself for us
Or we could look at Stalin and the millions he killed, Mao and his love for life or Pol Pot and the baby's he had smashed on trees

Christianity teaches about fictional characters, I wish your religions characters were fictional, there zest for humanity was fictional
I love how you talk life up Klass yet think we are nothing more than bugs



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 11:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Raggedyman
If you'll clean that record with one of these...

...it won't keep repeating the same thing over and over.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join