Call for Europe-wide swastika ban

Hot on the heels of Prince Harry's recent episode (discussed here: www.abovetopsecret.com... ), BBC news today carries this article:

"German politicians have called for Nazi symbols to be banned throughout Europe after Prince Harry was pictured wearing a swastika to a fancy dress party."

news.bbc.co.uk...

Whilst I'm sure the banning of Nazi symbols would be regarded as entirely fair enough, how would the legislation (and any executive operating within it) distinguish the Nazi swastika from the Sanskrit form of the swastika - and therefore begin to cross a line beyond which the pursuit of individual religious freedom is affected (and considering the 'reasons' that this move appears to have been called for, one has to examine the wisdom of such a move).

Some interesting background on the swastika:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.tribuneindia.com...

As we have seen very recent demonstrations by religious groups against what they see as sacrilege (as "transgression against the virtue of religion"), such as the calls by Sikhs to stop a piece of theatre in Birmingham, or by Christian groups burning their TV licences in protest at the BBC showing 'Gerry Springer - the opera', and the moves to ensure freedom from religious (as distinct from racial) hatred, is this move well timed, how ever well intentioned ?

Or ... is this perhaps no more than an evolution of the recent French ban on overt religious symbolism ?

(Please note, this post isn't intended as an 'another' Prince Harry thread, nor is it in any way anti-semitic, pro/anti-German or any of the other tangential/emotive/symbolic stuff that hangs off the 'swastika').

[edit on 16-1-2005 by 0951]

So what happens after the Swastika gets banned? Do we then tear out all the pages of our history books that refer to and show the symbol? Then do we try to erase all mention of the Holocaust because it upsets too many people?
Its madness, I can understand Germany having the symbol banned as it must be a great embarresment to them. But trying to have it banned europe wide is just more proof of the new European dictatorship that I can see forming in the future.
Every time I see a swastica it reminds me of the horrors that happened in the past and that most of our fathers/grandfathers had to fight against to keep our freedom. To have the symbol banned is going against the reasons which these brave men fought for.
If we forget the mistakes of the past we will only repeat them.

I remember at school once in an art lesson we were told to draw something with interlinking shapes. Although it didn’t quite go i used the shape of a swastika not because i was a nazi but i just liked the shape. When the teacher saw it she immediately picked it up, tore it into pieces and threw it in the bin. She didn’t even give any kind of explanation other then it was a nazi symbol. But what if it had meant to me peace? What if i new the true meaning of the symbol?

What about the word Gay, a word that once meant happy but now means homosexual. I remember there was a bit of an uproar over this years ago as English scholars didn’t want to loose the word to that meaning.

Originally posted by 0951

"German politicians have called for Nazi symbols to be banned throughout Europe after Prince Harry was pictured wearing a swastika to a fancy dress party."

I thought they already WERE as a result of the Nuernberg trials which resulted in declaring fascist organizations as criminal organizations and their ideologies as criminal ideologies.

Originally posted by AtheiX

Originally posted by 0951

"German politicians have called for Nazi symbols to be banned throughout Europe after Prince Harry was pictured wearing a swastika to a fancy dress party."

I thought they already WERE as a result of the Nuernberg trials which resulted in declaring fascist organizations as criminal organizations and their ideologies as criminal ideologies.

I think, (but it is *I think*) that this applied only within Germany.

As the article states, those signs are just banned in Germany. No need to think

euh well if they going to ban this well then they have to ban the christian cross, the islamitic half moon symbol and every sign from religions.
because the Nazi symbol is a sign from a religion. Before it was used by the german establishment.

I don't get it... the reaction after prince harry worn it... its a over reaction..
still wondering if we all would react the same way if he worn the sovjet symbol (worn by all communists) on his arm.. and remember this the communists have killed more people then nazi germany did.
a lot more.

By 'ban' what do they mean?

To ban the symbol outside a historical context?

To ban it entirely, including in a historical context?

And what about movies, Indiana Jones for example?

Typical ridiculous statement by attention-seeking, unprepared politicians. The bad thing is that they may ride popular indignation and get what they want. The Swastika was used by the Nazi, ok. So what? It's an ancient Indo-European symbol of the sun. In India is incredibly popular and you can find Swastika jewels in almost any popular shop. WWI pilots painted swastikas on their planes as a token of good luck (most had the inspiration from m.me Blavatski's books, very popular at the time). The Finnish president's seal feature a swastika on the lion's breast. If somebody outlaw the swastika, they should also outlaw the sickle and hammer (Communists), the red cross in a white field (Crusaders), the crescent moon and star (Ottoman Empire), etc. If political correctness can lead to this...

This is really quite rediculous. It shouldn't even be an issue, but it is. This "prince" decided he wanted to dress up for a party as a Nazi. He didn't even look like a Nazi, maybe a drunken Nazi barely in uniform but that's it. If anything is going to be done, all of those in Germany who are upset should walk over to England and explain their position on the issue with their fists.

The swastika shouldn't be "banned" for a great deal of reasons. One may be that by banning something, you make it more popular and thrust it upon the public eye. What does your kid do when you say "stay in the front yard?" He/she is across the street before you finnish the sentence.

If that symbol becomes banned, then the EU will be showing the world they will soon be faciests, just like the Nazis were. Of course I'm not saying the EU is going to slaughter the Jews, but that they will be pumping out more ludicris laws than we could even imagine. In my opinion atleast.

Leave the past in the past. Don't go pick it up to give it a toss, could be a boomerang.

Even the Union Jack secretes a swastika
Slice the Union flag horizontally and vertically in the middle and turn all four quarters the same direction 90 degrees or a quarter turn
What are we going to do?
Ban the Union flag?

[edit on 16-1-2005 by dh]

this is ridiculous, a tightening on the noose of people's civil rights. I'd rather have someone wear a Swastika than not being able to wear one IMO. And it has historical purposes as well that should be taken into consideration.

They shouldn't make such a fuss about a spoilt rich kid at a party, it really is beginning to piss me off

lol dont people learn if you ban something it becomes cool the "in thing" a few years later.

allready this symbol has some shock value but it would gain a lot more value if it is banned and the staying power of the attention and hype would live longer because of court cases keeping it in the spotlight.

it would probly make the person look like a hero for being willing to go thru all that, maybe your kids hero.

I'm a Hindu and to this day we use the Swastika in almost all Hindu Rituals from Marriage to Worship to What-have-you.

Does this mean I can't worship anymore if I'm in Europe?

This is ridiculous.

However, there's a slight difference between the Nazi Swastika and the original Hindu Swastika. The Nazi Swastika is a mirror Image of the Hindu Swastika (or vice-versa if it offends anyone). So the lines end in opposite directions.

This is worse then Nazi to ban something on symbol basis. Should we bow to the master whenever he has more crazy ideas. Symbol is old as mankind and banning it is most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Tommorow we will ban letter N as for Nazi.
We should pay close attention to what we do and become and not playing with silly symbolism. As for prince I thought he was making fun of this, not gloryfying german soldier, as we all know how much suffering they inflicted to all during the war.
Now they will never make it better banning the symbol which they used.
Swastika is not something other nations misused. This is all see no evil hear no evil speak no evil tactics, sad.


[edit on 17-1-2005 by MankoW]

0951 says:

"Whilst I'm sure the banning of Nazi symbols would be regarded as entirely fair enough."

Judging from your spelling, I am assuming you're a Brit, and I can't very well respond as I would were you an American.

But here in the US, banning of Nazi symbols is not regarded as "entirely fair enough" because our Constitution has been interpreted to consider the wearing of such a political gim-crackery to be protected speech and, as such, must not be curtailed.

Here in the US, our Constitution is designed to protect, not the Nice Guys (since they supposedly don't need the same level of protection) but the nazis and other similar wankers. In other words, American Nazis, racists, public nose-pickers, incompetent poets, and other riff-raff, as repugnant as you or I might think them, have the same protection as anyone else here.

Ironically, the very people here who actually want to ban these people or their symbols, are, as far as I'm concerned, their spiritual brethren.

The best way to deal with these fools is to laugh at them, not criminalize them.

Let the Nazi's, and those who believe like they do,
have all the swastikas they want. Let them have armbands,
necklaces, whatever. That way ... we all know who is part
of the hate group and they can be easily identified and we
can keep an eye on them much easier ....

its not a religious symbols. the lines go to the right on the nazi one, and to the left on the actual religious symbol. why not ban all symbols? any symbols of that representing another god is taught that it comes from satan in the eye of a christian. i had the eye of ra as my msn avatar and someone comes out and says, 'why have you got a satanic symbol'!
banning it europe wide is wrong, its a symbol of what 'was' but isn't anymore because of the brave that fought. banning it would be like throwing away everything that we fought for in the 2nd world war. are we going to ban the indiana jones film with the nazis in, or prehaps american history x because edward norton has it tattood on himself.
it's going too far to ban a symbol...are we going to have a mass burning of books that show it, books that you can read about the swastika, books that depict the 2nd world war? when does the insanity end?... it is the new european dictatorship we're headed towards, no freedom is the message conveyed by banning symbols...what's next banning the eye of ra because a christian thinks its a satanic symbol because it represents another god!

This is stuiped, would there be a uproar if a russian wore the american flag on his jacket and that the american flag be banned in russia? The nazi ideology i wont say is right, but it is not completely wrong. Every ideology has its positives and negatives, just becuase one ideology doesnt agree with another doesnt mean that all symbols of it should be banned. All people and i will express the "ALL" should be aloud to express there ethical, philosophical ideologies as they see fit as long as they do not harm another person in the process. So if nazis feel like beating up a jew becuase thats what they believe, that is wrong. If a palestianian felt hurt seeing a jew wear one of those jewish caps in the street and this offended him, would people agree to a ban on all of the jews not to wear their religious hats? Of course not.

in my opinion, the swastica isn't what people should worry about, but rather, the idealisium behind it.
please correct me if i am wrong, but hilter choose the tabentian swastica and reversed it, because it started as the symbole for life, and he twisted it into a symbole for death, and because of this, i doubt prince harry even had it faceing the right way to even be considerd a 'nazi' symbole, if that is indeed what he was aiming for.
i agree with the people that say this was all just a poorly thought out poularity boost, or whatnot.