The universe is an illusion and everything is the point of view of mind

Science knows this and you see it in things like quantum mechanics and the universe as a Hologram. This is because reality is an illusion or construct of information. This is just the mind looking at this same information from different points of view. Here's a video with Susskind and others talking about the 3rd dimension as an illusion.



This comes from things like black hole thermodynamics and information allowed in a volume of space. Scientist calculated the amount of information that can fit into a volume of space and they were shocked to find out that the information that can fit into a volume of space is defined by information on a 2D surface surrounding that volume and not the volume itself.

It gets no clearer than this. The 3rd dimension has to be an illusion or a point of view of something that's not 3 dimensional but only appears to be. You have recent studies that show "reality" doesn't exist until measured and studies that show we could be surrounded by black holes.

Experiment suggests that reality doesn't exist until it is measured

www.gizmag.com...

Here's another article:

The case for black holes being nothing but holograms just got even stronger

www.sciencealert.com...

As Susskind talks about, these distinctions between states can never be lost. These distinctions at microscopic levels are quantum but as space expands, the distinctions become larger and appear as classical. Here's a talk by Susskind:



So, look at your closet. All of the stuff you can fit into your closet doesn't correspond to the volume of your closet but to a 2D surface area surrounding the volume of your closet. If you try to calculate the information that can be allowed in a volume of space by it's volume, Physics will not allow it. Volume is an illusion.

Everything is a point of view of what we call "reality." So it's one mind experiencing different points of view. At speeds close to light, what we call "reality" will look different. You will see things from a different point of view than at speeds slower than the speed of light. It's all the same thing just seen from different points of view.

So there's the subject(information) and the object(the minds point of view). This point of view changes with motion. So it's the point of view that "real" not the subject of that point of view. That subject can change depending on how it's being observed.

People like Heisenberg struggled with these questions.

“I remember discussions with Bohr which went through many hours till very late at night and ended almost in despair; and when at the end of the discussion I went alone for a walk in the neighbouring park I repeated to myself again and again the question: Can nature possibly be so absurd as it seemed to us in these atomic experiments?”
― Werner Heisenberg

“What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.”
― Werner Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy: The Revolution in Modern Science

“I think that modern physics has definitely decided in favor of Plato. In fact the smallest units of matter are not physical objects in the ordinary sense; they are forms, ideas which can be expressed unambiguously only in mathematical language.”
― Werner Heisenberg

What we observe is not nature itself. This goes to the heart of this. There's no objective reality outside of our point of view of reality.

If one makes up something then gets a following, it may only be true to them only. Outerspace is not an illusion, it's what see and it is real to mental visional eyesight.

originally posted by: neoholographic

So, look at your closet. All of the stuff you can fit into your closet doesn't correspond to the volume of your closet but to a 2D surface area surrounding the volume of your closet.

Aren't those measurements how you calculate volume?
The 2D surface area measurements will give you the volume of the closet, so...
I don't get it.
These smart people have too much time on their hands.

a reply to: musicismagic

What we see is both empty and full at the same time though. Your computer or phone screen? It's 99.9999% empty space yet there it is for you to see. Reality is a paradoxical illusion.

If a proton was the size of a basketball then its electron would be about the size of a golf ball and would be orbiting around the basketball 5 miles away. That's how empty your computer screen is right now, yet it has form somehow.

Science will never have all the answers, it cannot observe what is observing.

This is one of my favorite sci-fi topics.

Yes, we could be living in a simulated reality where all the universe is running on a computational grid, and we are merely intelligent sub-routines. But I call this science fiction, as there is at present no way to falsify the idea.

Here is one of my favorite articles on the subject. www.bottomlayer.com...

Does the OP really believe what he (or she) has just written?

a reply to: paraphi

Pretty sure they do believe it. I'm not sure how I feel on the idea, but I will at least consider the possibility.

The way I look at it: imagine there is an amazingly intelligent race, be it "future" human or extraterrestrial life. We already have pretty smart AI with our current technology. Now, fast forward 10k years in AI tech. How intelligent/ self aware will it be?

Considering this, would this theoretical civilization not run experiments? For example, running an AI program based on their world, but they tweak the effect of gravity +/- X amount of a percentage to see what kind of an effect it would have on their flora/fauna over time?

I know, it's a very bleak thing to consider that we are part of an amazingly advanced AI program to study various effects. I DO NOT personally think it to be true. But if it were to be undoubtedly proven, I wouldn't be too surprised...

originally posted by: neoholographic
Science knows this and you see it in things like quantum mechanics and the universe as a Hologram.What we observe is not nature itself. This goes to the heart of this. There's no objective reality outside of our point of view of reality.

Cool! They must have been reading my posts fort the past decade two decades! *__-
Again;

There is One (unchanging, ALL inclusive) Universal Reality!
Existence = the complete Universe = Nature = Reality = Consciousness = Truth = Love = 'Self!' = God = Brahman = Tao = ... etc....
ALL INCLUSIVE!!
'One'!

We are all unique Conscious Perspectives (Souls), that perceive Reality, uniquely, every unique moment of Universal existence!!
There is no point in the Universe that is NOT a Soul perceiving Reality!
That is how ALL is Known!

"God cannot know himself without me." - Meister Eckhart

"The eye by which I see God is the same as the eye by which God sees me. My eye and God's eye are one and the same." - Meister Eckhart

"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be completely defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
ALL INCLUSIVE!!!

The new and updated definition of 'Knowledge' is; that which is experienced/perceived.

"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" - The First Law of Soul Dynamics (Book of Fudd)

Reality is a timeless synchrony of unique moments!
"Past and future is merely a persistent illusion!" - Einstein
No 'spacetime'!
All is Here! Now!

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

This is great and all but how does this belief, in any way, solve or even help issues humans face in this illusion of a third dimension?

Things like starvation, genocide, child sex trafficking, beheadings etc? Are these illusions?

This seems like an intellectual exercise of over educated first world thinkers who are safely inside their academic bubbles, safe from real issues real people face in the real world.

originally posted by: slowisfast
This is great and all but how does this belief, in any way, solve or even help issues humans face in this illusion of a third dimension?

Things like starvation, genocide, child sex trafficking, beheadings etc? Are these illusions?

This seems like an intellectual exercise of over educated first world thinkers who are safely inside their academic bubbles, safe from real issues real people face in the real world.

This post has no place on this thread. This is a discussion about current scientific understanding and it's IDIOTIC to come on a thread in this forum as if people who debate and talk about these issues don't talk about starvation or genocide.

People should just stop debating black holes, gravity waves, Higgs boson, extra dimensions, loop quantum gravity, multiverse or dark energy.

Because black holes don't solve starvation and genocide should people stop debating them?

Because Gravity waves will not stop child sex trafficking, should people stop debating the issue? It makes no sense.

originally posted by: slowisfast
This is great and all but how does this belief, in any way, solve or even help issues humans face in this illusion of a third dimension?

Things like starvation, genocide, child sex trafficking, beheadings etc? Are these illusions?

This seems like an intellectual exercise of over educated first world thinkers who are safely inside their academic bubbles, safe from real issues real people face in the real world.

How do you expect to solve those problems when the world is plagued by ignorance?

And how do you fight ignorance without intellectual discourse?

What higher pursuit is there for intelligent, sentient animals besides attempting to discover the truth of existence and reality?

a reply to: paraphi

Of course, because there's no evidence that a material objective reality exists. So it's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of science. I know it's hard to accept and grasp because most people live in Plato's Cave. An illusion is supposed to be strong but the evidence tells you, it's just an illusion of separation.

Local realism is dead and this has been known for years. Here's an article from Nature in 2007:

Quantum physics: Death by experiment for local realism

A fundamental scientific assumption called local realism conflicts with certain predictions of quantum mechanics. Those predictions have now been verified, with none of the loopholes that have compromised earlier tests.

The mind experiences and creates reality.

a reply to: neoholographic
Get off your soapbox.
I never said they shouldn't be studied.
I actually think they're absolutely valid area of study.

They are not reality though. They are theoretical and as such do nothing for 'real' world until they are proven and technologies are derived that do interact with and affect the 'real' world.

But those things I mentioned are real and are happening every minute of every day to real people.

Continue to think it's all illusory, though.

a reply to: slowisfast

You sound ridiculous. Who claimed they weren't real?

It's simply idiotic. Should every post on ATS start of with a discussion about starvation and genocide? To act like you can't discuss these issues because it does nothing to stop genocide is ASININE.

You haven't debated any issues in this thread or any of the science behind the issues in this thread. If you want to debate starvation go start a thread in the proper forum or better yet donate money which you probably never do.

This is a Philosophy and Metaphysics forum and because you can't debate anything that's being said, you make this ASININE argument about genocide and starvation.

a reply to: neoholographic

You're kind of going off the rails.
You should go outside.

You don't think my comment has philosophical implications?
Your title and content make objective claims that are not proven science and purely lie in the realm of the theoretical. That's awesome but that's not reality.

originally posted by: Greggers
This is one of my favorite sci-fi topics.

Yes, we could be living in a simulated reality where all the universe is running on a computational grid, and we are merely intelligent sub-routines. But I call this science fiction, as there is at present no way to falsify the idea.

Here is one of my favorite articles on the subject. www.bottomlayer.com...

I agree when it comes to a simulated reality which is more likely. This is about what we call "reality" as an illusion which is supported by Science. The only way people try to get around this is by saying there must be some deeper theory that has yet to be discovered. That's just wishful thinking because some people don't like that science tells us local realism is dead and what we see as a local reality isn't an objective reality. They can't even show that volume exists. In fact, Physics tells us it can't exist and this is why more and more Physicist accept some version of the universe as a hologram.

Totally agree.

I came to this conclusion after an experience that everything was mind.

originally posted by: slowisfast
a reply to: neoholographic

You're kind of going off the rails.
You should go outside.

You don't think my comment has philosophical implications?
Your title and content make objective claims that are not proven science and purely lie in the realm of the theoretical. That's awesome but that's not reality.

What??

The realm of the theoretical? Show me that volume exists. Where's the scientific evidence that proves this. Local realism is dead and there's ZERO evidence that an objective material reality exists. I have listed the evidence but you haven't responded. You just made a silly argument about starvation and genocide.

If the mind is experiencing this reality how can things like starvation and genocide not be real? Did you even read the thread before commenting?

a reply to: neoholographic

No I simply made a comment about reality in contrast to your objective claims about a theoretical understanding of the Universe.

You really haven't shown evidence, merely opinion. What is there to respond to?
Yes I read your thread.

a reply to: slowisfast

This is just pure nonsense. I've shown that volume is an illusion. I've shown local realism is dead and listed articles from Nature. I've listed experiments about the nature of reality and measurement and more.

Of course there's a lot to respond to if you have a clue to what's being said. There's 7-8 other posts in this thread that responded. You're the only one that talks about genocide and starvation because either you don't understand what's being said or you just can't debate it so you obfuscate with a meaningless post.