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How light is detected affects the atom that emits it

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posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: BO XIAN

Hint, hint - this has some cool implications that relate to other things that were discussed on ATS long ago about tau axis reversal of light, virtual photons, et al.

Eh, someone's finally diddling with this officially.




posted on Jun, 5 2016 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Arbitrageur

PS this is the correct link, your link didn't work:
How light is detected affects the atom that emits it


Thanks!



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 01:08 AM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP
O if we detect a photon from a galaxy 10 billion light years away, we can effect the atom that emitted the photon even though the atom does not exist any longer after 10 billion years? If so this is time travel back in time.

You've made a very important observation here. Quantum mechanics tells us reality is non-local, meaning an action on one particle can instantly affect another particle across the other side of the universe, if those particles are entangled. According to Einsteins laws of relativity, if such instantaneous actions did occur, it would violate causality and possibly allow for time travel into the past, which is a major reason QM conflicts with relativity. Entanglement does undoubtedly allow particles to share information over any distance, this experiment is yet another confirmation of that fact. However it's very important to realize that the information being communicated is totally random, and it's completely impossible to exploit the non-local nature of the universe to transmit any type of meaningful information. The delayed choice quantum eraser experiment demonstrates that fact in a very interesting way.


Experiments that involve entanglement exhibit phenomena that may make some people doubt their ordinary ideas about causal sequence. In the delayed choice quantum eraser, an interference pattern will form on D0 even if which-path data pertinent to photons that form it are only erased later in time than the signal photons hit that primary detector. Not only that feature of the experiment is puzzling; D0 can, in principle at least, be on one side of the universe, and the other four detectors can be "on the other side of the universe" to each other.[21]

However, the interference pattern can only be seen retroactively once the idler photons have been detected and the experimenter has had information about them available, with the interference pattern being seen when the experimenter looks at particular subsets of signal photons that were matched with idlers that went to particular detectors.[21]

The total pattern of signal photons at the primary detector never shows interference (see Fig. 5), so it is not possible to deduce what will happen to the idler photons by observing the signal photons alone. The delayed choice quantum eraser does not communicate information in a retro-causal manner because it takes another signal, one which must arrive via a process that can go no faster than the speed of light, to sort the superimposed data in the signal photons into four streams that reflect the states of the idler photons at their four distinct detection screens.

Delayed choice quantum eraser - Wikipedia


Another way to interpret this experiment is to say that no information is being sent through time, what is actually happening is that the results of the primary detector aren't decided until we actually try to measure and observe the result, and it "back loads" a result which is consistent with with the results of the other detectors. This relates to the question of "when a tree falls and no one is around to hear it is does it make a sound". QM seems to imply it wont fall in the first place if no one is around, but when someone enters the forest, and they find a tree fallen to the ground, it's always possible to discover why the tree fell, it doesn't just pop out of thin air in an awkward position, it has a full history which was "back loaded" the moment it was required by an observer. Actually I don't think it works that way for large objects like trees or the moon due to decoherence, it only works that way for quantum scale systems.
edit on 6/6/2016 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:08 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

. . . tau axis reversal of light . . .

A search of ATS brought no results.

Do you remember which forum the former discussion took place on?

"Tau axis" doesn't bring up a dictionary definition, either - only internet links. The first one references "tau axis hypothesis" of Alzheimer's disease. Did the discussion relate more to biology than physics?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:06 AM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: Bedlam

. . . tau axis reversal of light . . .

A search of ATS brought no results.

Do you remember which forum the former discussion took place on?

"Tau axis" doesn't bring up a dictionary definition, either - only internet links. The first one references "tau axis hypothesis" of Alzheimer's disease. Did the discussion relate more to biology than physics?



It relates to fried biology. Koreans have the best cooked beef.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:11 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: BO XIAN

Hint, hint - this has some cool implications that relate to other things that were discussed on ATS long ago about tau axis reversal of light, virtual photons, et al.

Eh, someone's finally diddling with this officially.


Oh good! So it does work the way I thought it does.

Hey tom, your avatar says "ready". By that, do you mean ready to shed some light on seemingly forgetful despots?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:18 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

Gee I wish I knew what you are talking about!


I mean it's obvious you're joking but I don't know what kind of joke.
edit on 6/6/2016 by ConnectDots because: Clarify



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:34 AM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: BASSPLYR

Gee I wish I knew what you are talking about!


I mean it's obvious you're joking but I don't know what kind of joke.


Its a new method of cooking. Does wonders at korean bbqs.
edit on 6-6-2016 by BASSPLYR because: Ah, proving that americans throw the biggest and best bbqs.....EVER!



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

It's related to phase conjugation, shallowly.

There's a freaky way to look back over the "history " of a photon using a very oddball setup.

That's useful in a number of applications, most of them unmentionable.

It gets about as oddball as you want. There is a targeting system with no moving parts and no computational logic that uses this effect to correct aim and collimation of a laser using virtual photons ptopagating backwards in time so that the aim was never off because it was always right...it's the stuff of headaches.

The op strikes me as being at least superficially similar and sadly it's knock knock knocking at Bedlam's door. I have a couple of patent prefiles that depend on this, but I've never had the personal bucks to get the glasswork done and the other guys didn't think I had a strong enough business case to use company money.

If you ever read a post where I said I needed technical glassware blown to order this is why.

And the question was, since you can interact with the wave/particle aspect at the source using the other technique to "observe" the emission into one state or the other, (this possibility has been known in the creepy weapons community since before I first joined ats as Tom Bedlam) can you # with coherent emitters by making them spontaneously emit their inverted states or can you change the mode or whatnot by adversarial observation? and thus cause a misfire or an inefficient emission leading to overheating


edit on 6-6-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:08 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Are virtual photons essentially zero point energy?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Dont forget you can also rejuvinate my hot dogs with the same setup!



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: GBP/JPY
it's more supernatural than that.....more magic than science

I figured that out when I discovered the visual ray.....

if you look at a cloud it disintegrates.....in just 2.6 minutes.....take that......pick a distinct puffy one....you'll see the first sign in just 60 seconds.....stare that kills, huh


2.6 secs? Depends how hot the day is and how cloudy the sky. If it's hotter the sun evaporates the cloud faster. Did you really think you observing it makes it disappear? 😉



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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Heres my question. If the photon and the source are connected irrespective of distance does that mean that by ibserving the stars in a sense were altering the star were observing just a tinsy bit....back in time? Man the universe is a wild place.

Now to practice adversarial observation of the kid who keeps parking his crap bucket of a car with the modified exhaust and 400 watt sound system infront of my apartment. Im trying to see if I can observe his master cylinder failing.
edit on 6-6-2016 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Wellllllll, y'all sure left my understanding in the dust. But I much enjoy reading all the comments and explanations.

Thanks thanks.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

I don't suppose it would be wise to leave a card on his driver's side window . . . asking him if the extra loud sound has

REALLY

resulted in a lengthening of his manhood?

I used to exhort all my psych 101 classes that such an assumption was actually terminally FALSE.

I almost asked that of a biker pulled up beside me at a stop light. But I chickened out.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: BO XIAN

Yeah, the jerk also does donuts at the corner intersection at 3 am before parking. Skinny gangster wannabe kinda guy. Late 20s lives with his mom. Drives a crappy primer painted early 90s camero. His rims are worth more than the car.

Thinking of leaving something else on his car. Most of the neighborhood is actually.

On the upside. His girlfriend keeps making eyes at me. Often whens standing right next to him, and he's clueless about the whole thing. So yeah, about his manhood.....
edit on 6-6-2016 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: ConnectDots

It gets about as oddball as you want. There is a targeting system with no moving parts and no computational logic that uses this effect to correct aim and collimation of a laser using virtual photons ptopagating backwards in time so that the aim was never off because it was always right...it's the stuff of headaches.


Something like this? Self aligning laser



posted on Jun, 7 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: mbkennel

I wish I had my notebooks here. The thing's too freaky to sketch in paint from memory, plus it's been a while.

It involves a pump laser, a couple of mirrors, a phase conjugating column with some time delay to it and a big block of non-linear material with just the right characteristics.

The thing was first built, IIRC, in 1973 at UCLA after someone took a bunch of '___' whilst reading about that Zel'dovich lab setup.

And when they switched it on, it fired on anything reflective in the room. Like people's laser goggles. Or shiny material on their persons. Even if they ran around screaming and waving their hands in the air.

All it took to "pilot light" a beam to a target was a few photons coming back to the block of non-linear material. Once that happened, the block would emit a fraction of the pump laser in a nice collimated focused beam back to the reflection. And would track the reflector no matter where it went. No deformable mirrors, no computers, no analog circuitry. Just a block of crystal, a methane column (at first, anyway) and some mirrors and a big honkin pump laser.

There was some really nifty math past my pay grade that supposedly invoked virtual photons propagating backward through time etc, the same basic explanation as to how the 'deep' Zel'dovich rig can reconstruct transmission states near the point of origin even after they've been "lost" at the rig itself. And the dumbed down explanation was that it doesn't miss because it didn't miss. The somewhat less dumbed down explanation invokes some sort of temporal negative feedback loop.

It was sort of classified for a long time, I know they got a couple more very non-intuitive uses out of the basic effect that are likely still classified. I have often wondered if 'guidestars' are to provide a pilot light for a similar rig.



posted on Jun, 8 2016 @ 01:11 PM
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[Hypothetically]

id reckon they'd want to use it for unbreakable radar lock-ons and targetting for things like stealth aircraft.

If the signal beam is sorta evanescent and just magically appears at the target with nothing seemingly connecting it(via a super cooled non linear medium that delays the probe beam) one could even possibly make undetectable radar and sensor systems for said craft.

[Hypothetically]




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