[Dark Web] Ever Wonder if Anonymizers are Really Safe? (TOR, JAP, ETC)

originally posted by: Navarro
I expect they're most motivated by future threats. They mean to prevent you from developing and executing a thing for which they have no answer. I could imagine Quantum Computing never becoming a thing because of this. QC is what NSA's afraid of, not TOR.

QC would have already been in our grasp if we had ditched Binary (Yes, No) for Quinary logic (Yes, maybe Yes, Maybe, Maybe no, No)

They had a working wooden computer that worked on Ternary logic back in what 1840 hold let me source that...

In 1840, Thomas Fowler, a self-taught English mathematician and inventor, created a unique ternary calculating machine. Recently, all detail of this machine was lost. A research project begun in 1997, uncovered sufficient information to enable the recreation of a physical concept model of Fowler's machine. The next step is to create a historically accurate replica. Published in: IEEE Annals of the History of Computing (Volume:27 , Issue: 3 )

Quinary Logic is just a Step up from that and would give the Required Fuzzy Logic Needed for QC...

And if Ternary logic can be reliably made out of wood, what wonders would it do in silicone logic circuits today, Blow Moore's Law right out the window.

A little extra to chew on...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I'm pretty sure that on a hardware level inside the actual CPU's could be hidden backdoors. You could build your own computer, create your very own operating system from 100% scratch...

But the actual hardware probably has some kind of backdoor on the micron level printed on the PCB's and mobos, hell it could even be inside the ram modules themselves.

So...unless you trace your own circuit boards, make your own resistors, transistors, capacitors, and CPU's from 100% scratch...you're going to be compromised someway. I'm talking about melting your own plastic, wrapping wire and not using ANYTHING store-bought that already functions as a part.

It's interesting that you should say that. Per my understanding, nothing stored on RAM is ever encrypted. Encrypted on a hard drive sure, in transit sure, but never in RAM. Even if you can't find the physical location of a thing, you can certainly find its virtual location. If you can do that, then you can access it, and if you can access it, then you can read the data in the clear via the RAM.

Somewhat of a moot point though, because I doubt the NSA is particularly concerned about commercially available encryption, end-to-end or not. I can't imagine an agent ever said "Damnit, he typed 'HTTPS' - guess we'll just have to wait until he messes up and forgets the transport security."

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I'm pretty sure that on a hardware level inside the actual CPU's could be hidden backdoors. You could build your own computer, create your very own operating system from 100% scratch...

The CPU has programmable microcode that's loaded by the BIOS. The BIOS guys have no idea what is in that module.

eta: although you ought not trust any operating system. Especially the ones you have source code for.

I get the feeling that someone, one day, will come up with a pretty slick means of overlocking, and they'll find something fairly interesting locked behind a wall in the process. There's a growing trend of virtually entirely locking up BIOS these days. Seems to me that when you teach a person that they need a key to open a door, they might start looking for other things to unlock once they get inside.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Bedlam

So...

The DOD is using CPU's made in China, even if they load their own operating systems?

I never understood why the government uses DELL ...

Every time I think of DELL...

Dude, no...I'm not voluntarily getting a Dell...

I'm reminded of perhaps a decade ago when the US government had somewhat irritated the Chinese. Strangely enough, America fighter jets began falling out've the sky without apparent reason. The media couldn't help but take notice. The government ended up grounding entire fleets of aircraft pending an investigation and resolution. The media began speaking about America being suddenly defenseless with our skies now cleared of interceptors due to phantom faults, then equally suddenly the discussion ended. Of course, the aircraft grounded were equipped with PRC electronics.

a reply to: Navarro

I'm fairly sure that all data in/out of out most sensitive computers is closely monitored....so chipsets made in China wouldn't be able to transmit data.

But they could have some kind of kill switch installed in them to die at a certain age or after so many cycles...or at some other set performance benchmark.

I don't understand why our own government doesn't source American-made CPU's, RAM and other components. Can't TI make that kind of stuff...they used to...

a reply to: Navarro

Anyway, reformatting a hard drive and selling it off isn't going to obstruct the efforts of a serious adversary. It's blank to you, but not to the NSA. They can recover that data just as if you had written a note on a piece of paper than erased what you'd written. Better to destroy that hard drive, shell out thirty bucks and buy a new one.

Not if you use the DoD wipe. Google it.

originally posted by: Gothmog

Not if you use the DoD wipe. Google it.

If you don't want to get an obstruction charge, use a sector-for-sector backup and restore.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Navarro

Anyway, reformatting a hard drive and selling it off isn't going to obstruct the efforts of a serious adversary. It's blank to you, but not to the NSA. They can recover that data just as if you had written a note on a piece of paper than erased what you'd written. Better to destroy that hard drive, shell out thirty bucks and buy a new one.

Not if you use the DoD wipe. Google it.

I've personally overwritten hard drives with 0's before destroying them. I'm aware of the process, but I'm also aware that methods exist which allow for the reading of overwritten data. Hence why I destroy them. Trust that until you've melted the HD down, the information remains available.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Navarro

I'm fairly sure that all data in/out of out most sensitive computers is closely monitored....so chipsets made in China wouldn't be able to transmit data.

But they could have some kind of kill switch installed in them to die at a certain age or after so many cycles...or at some other set performance benchmark.

I don't understand why our own government doesn't source American-made CPU's, RAM and other components. Can't TI make that kind of stuff...they used to...

They needn't transmit, only receive. It also doesn't matter if you able to monitor. It matters if you're able to anticipate, identify and prevent. These systems are designed to be protected against a certain amount of electrical interference, including EMP. So the question on China's end would primarily be whether or not they're capable of defeating that shielding given their system of transmission, not whether or not they can conceal that act, considering they were making an overt point.

TOR is abovetopsecret , if you talk elvish using the cyrilic alphabeth

a reply to: Navarro

Yeah, I installed one of those anonymous messaging apps on my phone. It pulled contact information from email accounts I hadn't used in years, one of which was a college email account. How would an app I install on my phone know the contact information of every person who I either sent an email to or received an email from, in an email account I haven't logged into or used in any way in several years? As far as I know, there should be no connection whatsoever between my phone, my computer, the app, and those old email accounts. Completely different computer, completely different phone back then. There's no cookies or anything saved to my current computer or phone that would have any information associated with those old accounts. And yet there it all was, everyone who I'd ever sent email to or received email from from years ago, without me even logging in to anything.
Something really fishy is going on there. Can anyone explain this to me?

There is no such thing as anonymous browsing on the web.

The NSA owns tor, and watches all of its users faithfully.

Unless you know what you're doing using a third party "Hide me" won't save your ass if you do something bad.

trust me.


I saw a java script once that pulled every speck of information from a rig that visited the site from harware serials to router encryption keys like nothing happened.

chances are these scripts are now built into your favorite O.S. and blast their meta data right before a big updated. lol

originally posted by: Navarro

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Navarro

Anyway, reformatting a hard drive and selling it off isn't going to obstruct the efforts of a serious adversary. It's blank to you, but not to the NSA. They can recover that data just as if you had written a note on a piece of paper than erased what you'd written. Better to destroy that hard drive, shell out thirty bucks and buy a new one.

Not if you use the DoD wipe. Google it.

I've personally overwritten hard drives with 0's before destroying them. I'm aware of the process, but I'm also aware that methods exist which allow for the reading of overwritten data. Hence why I destroy them. Trust that until you've melted the HD down, the information remains available.

You didnt read about it , did ya ? It doesnt overwrite with 0s.It overwrites with 256 bit random characters . Over and over and over again. Thats why the DoD uses it. Thus the name...

a reply to: Navarro

Sure, they shut down Silk Road. How long did that take? And how did they do it? that info is readily available too. You think they have the resources to bust every teenager ordering pot? Not likely. The busted Silk Road not by tracking online activity, but by old fashioned detective work (pretending to be a customer, etc). That said, they've shut down Silk Road how many times now? As far as I know there's a current version up and running. You're a little late in joining the game to play the expert.

The best way to erase a hard drive?

Disintegrate it in some kind of acid. There.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The way I see it, with the volume of traffic that's out there...the NSA and other agencies are pretty much paralyzed to prevent anything from happening by watching you.

That's exactly right, and to think otherwise is just irrational paranoia.

Honestly, the OP is making huge assumptions and basically making the NSA into Gods that they aren't, all the while trying to tell why we should be fighting these Gods he created in his mind.

a reply to: Gothmog

Yes, you can wipe a drive beyond recovery to anyone, you can encrypt drives where they're effectively without penetration, and you can store these same encryption algorithms on data in memory.

I don't know why this guy is on such a kick like this, but me thinks he projects his own unconscious need for ultimate power, and hasn't a clue how most of this tech really works.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The way I see it, with the volume of traffic that's out there...the NSA and other agencies are pretty much paralyzed to prevent anything from happening by watching you.

That's exactly right, and to think otherwise is just irrational paranoia.

Honestly, the OP is making huge assumptions and basically making the NSA into Gods that they aren't, all the while trying to tell why we should be fighting these Gods he created in his mind.

And the irony?

The more paranoid you are, the more waves you make.

The more waves you make, the more noticed and watched you become.

When you creep around acting paranoid and suspicious, people automatically assume you're doing something shady and illegal. Why? Because people who do illegal things act like that.

If you want to skate by unnoticed?

Act like everyone else and hide in plain sight.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

100% correct as well. The more you admit that you're just not important, and go about your life living it as you choose, the less likely you're ever to be red flagged and have to answer for some pattern of events that wasn't really much but still got someone's attention.

You're free when you can live within the confines and agreements of civilization, and still have a damned good time. Not because you choose not to know how it all works, but because you know it all too well, and realize the alternatives are that much worse.

a reply to: MystikMushroom
Lets secure a computer system , shall we ?
1) power down
2) remove all cables
3)melt said cables
4) drop HDD from the top of the Empire State building
5) sweep up remnants of said HDD with a whisk broom
6) shatter monitor with hammer
7) take all remnants and lock up in a combination safe that the combination is unknown
8) take said safe to Sweden
9) lock in a Swedish vault.
10) destroy all keys , access to said vault

enjoy