Russia Uses Electronic Warfare on Swedish Air Traffic Control While US Tells Poland No to NATO

a reply to: 412304

No. An R1 minor radio blackout impact wouldn't be powerful enough to cause problems.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why the hell would Russia want Poland?

Well they may want, though I pretty much doubt even that in this day and age. The Polish have a very large force/s, and their work in WW2 is quite remarkable, and there was no collaborative government when Hitler's forces invaded, Hitler's forces just took over, and that cost them plenty, the stats for that are quite mindboggling. In the air the Poles had their first hit in 1940 operating from GB, on a training flight is one tiny example, on the ground, the underground army over the period of war, damaged near 7000 railway locos and 19000 wagons and a high rate of at the point production sabotage. In a word they excelled themselves in a three year period when both Hitler's forces, and the Russians had invaded their country.
Nowadays the Poles have a sophisticated military, and they know how to use it, and I would easily guess would they not ever forget how many millions died from their soil, mostly murdered, by both Russian and German forces in WW2.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
It's been a very long episode of posturing on both sides.

Russia has seen NATO expanding into countries that were once loyal to her, also trade partners.

The reality is that countries which were formerly subjugated by the USSR ("loyal" by the gun of a tank) chose the other side as soon as they were able to do so without being destroyed by the bear.

adst.org...

She has perceived this expansion as a threat, which it is whatever way you want to dress it up, and when she takes measures to protect her economic and military interests, she is the big bad bear.

Excuses for tyranny. Why didn't Netherlands or anybody else join the Warsaw Pact in 1991?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Unless it was an "Accident" from a "U2" in Southern California.

I wonder what sort of SNAFU`s Russian ATCs have had in the recent past and what sort of UFOs they are experiencing.

a reply to: StratosFear

Damn pre-takeoff checklist. Who needs em.

a reply to: mbkennel

Why didn't Netherlands or anybody else join the Warsaw Pact in 1991?

They knew what lay ahead if they did.

a reply to: StallionDuck
LOL Russia's pissing all over the world and marking its territory meanwhile all over the world there are not Russian bases, but American. LOL

originally posted by: 412304

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: 412304

And OP your calling of Russia as the "Bad guys" and calling American and its allies the good guys is hilarious. You should be a comedian. A miss guided comedian but a comedian none the less.

You might want to read that again. I didn't call anyone the "good guys". Using the term "bad guys" was... oh never mind... I don't need to explain how you twisted my words.

Mkay, you probably didnt say America were the Good guys but i definitely got a one sided feel from your post.
Its just a shame that you call out Russia for small things like this taht arent even proven but America is clearly and undoubtedly the aggressor in almost every conflict right now including the one with Russia. Look at what America and pals did to the Ukraine and all so they could have a forward NATO base and piss off Russia.
America has literally destabilized the world and you say nothing, and Russia ALLEGEDLY takes a couple of planes off a radar and you scream satan.

Seriously?

If anything, I'm saying that the US Gov is a wussy fest just as much as I'm taking a swing at Russia.

Hasn't the recent past taught you anything about Russia? You're obviously sympathizing for this country, THATS why you're assuming that I'm all for the US and against Russia. What about:

Crimea?

Russia's Gay Rights?

Treatment of media?

War on Terror? (state side)

Migrant Rights (all those people who helped build their Olympics and were then sent home and denied pay for the work they did)

Persecution vs Free Speech

That's just some of the issues Russia has.

I'm not saying the US is all saintly because we know that's not the case, but Russia is just as bad.


man... people like you really make me feel like posting any news articles here are just pointless these days. I really think you argue just to see yourself argue.

I think I'm hanging up my ats posting hat and sticking to just reading all the BS dribble that comes out of some of you guys till I have enough and just walk away. I'm sure I have other hobbies to catch up on in my free time. ATS has gone to $#!^ and I think I'm getting tired of the smell.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Training and testing is one thing. Testing on civilian air traffic control is dangerous and stupid, no matter who is doing it.

I would go one step further and say its an act of war.

As for NATO they recently updated their charter to Include hybrid warfare like we saw in Ukraine Georgia and Moldova. Any action like that from Russia to a NATO member will qualify for invocation of article V.

I could only imagine the hissy fit Putin would have if another nation disabled their act system.

The other thing is this action could create so much chaos if its applied to country just prior to an invasion. Bear in mind when the USSR invaded Afghanistan they sent in "technical staff" which turned out to be soviet airborne troops.

Russia is going to miscalculate...

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement
a reply to: StallionDuck
Try viewing it neutrally. We've surrounded them with bases, planning missile shields, routine training missions in the Baltic, what are they supposed to do? Act like it isn't a threat? Don't prepare? We are the aggressors.

Actually the Baltic states had to literally beg the US and NATO to create defensive plans for the region, than they had to beg for rotational forces and now they're begging for permanent forces and bases. NATO didn't think of Russia as an enemy. Everything that is being done right now is a direct response to Russias wars in Georgia and Ukraine; cyber, informational attacks, and all the provocations that are coming almost daily from the russian side.

a reply to: StallionDuck

So we've gone from never negotiating with terrorist to negotiating with terrorist to let's just let the big bad guys of the world do whatever the hell

Last I looked the USA was the terrorist invading countries for resources, using CIA to spy on foreign firms that compete with US firms. If the Bear thinks its being encircled by the Eagle and NATO - do you think they are going to rollover?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why the hell would Russia want Poland?

Well, Russia occupied Poland for a few decades in the 20th century.

Russia is not really a pleasant neighbour. They have done this type of thing before, such against Estonia and Georgia. It's all part of the reason everyone has turned their backs on Russia because they are so anti-social. Does Russia actually have any friends apart from Syria and er, um.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Last I looked the USA was the terrorist invading countries for resources

Well at least we don't do it to just do it. Such as Russia did in Ukraine, and Georgia...also when was the last time the US annexed a part of any country we have been in, unlike those who you seem to be defending.

If the Bear thinks its being encircled by the Eagle and NATO - do you think they are going to rollover?

That's the problem the Bear is trying to use that lie to make it look as though what they are doing is because of it...and the fact they were all good with NATO until they invaded and annexed Crimea shows they know they are making that up.

a reply to: paraphi

yeah so? Russia just wants to trade. if Russia trades Russia gets strong. America has to stop them from trading because you cant have two at the top. this is all a game of dominance. and Poland isnt important. its not world war 2 anymore. its not the cold war anymore. cut the sh1t.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

but why did NATO encircle russia?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

but why did NATO encircle russia?

Because the former Warsaw Pact states wanted the same peace, stability and economic growth that had been going on in the West. And Russia was NATO partner through the entire expansion. Russia joined NATOs PfP, joined a special NATO Russian Council, joined the G8, joined the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe and Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with the EU. Russia was had no complaints with NATO expansion because it was a NATO partner and on top of that NATO began a massive reduction of its military forces and no NATO bases were placed in in the new NATO member states. So let's not pretend NATO expansion was some secret scheme that went on behind Russia's back. It was done with the full blessing of Russia who was also at the time getting Western aid programs to keep its defense and nuclear weapons industries from falling completely apart because neither Russia nor NATO wanted all those experts heading off to work for some terror group or a country like Iran.

When Russia was on the ropes, NATO reached out to be friends instead of moving to finish it off for good. And that worked until Putin decided that he wanted to go back to the good old days when nations on its borders feared it because it was unable to compete any other way.

a reply to: mbkennel

Americans come up with much better excuses for their tyranny right ? "Liberation" "bringing freedom"

It's a double standard for America. They can have bases all over the world and be involved in conflict after conflict but Russia gets involved with Syria and they are the "tyrants"

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
yeah so? Russia just wants to trade. if Russia trades Russia gets strong. America has to stop them from trading because you cant have two at the top. this is all a game of dominance. and Poland isnt important. its not world war 2 anymore. its not the cold war anymore. cut the sh1t.

1. Why do people think Russia is at the top of anything? They are undeveloped and medium sized economy. High corruption. Little, or no free press. Low levels of political freedoms. Poor income inequalities. Poor human development. Low GDP per head. Poor economic indicators. Need I go on?
2. Poland is important. Poland is a member of the EU, NATO and now has a per capita GDP higher than Russia, proving that releasing themselves from Russian dependency made good economic sense for them.
3. Russia is not some economic powerhouse. It has a GDP lower than Italy.
4. US trade with Russia is comparatively insignificant. US sanctions are small in comparison to EU sanctions. If Russia's prime objective was trade then they would have worked to avoid sanctions, which they did not.
5. History has shown that Russia wants to control. Georgia and Ukraine are evidence of this, including land annexed (Crimea) or proxy annexed (South Ossetia).

a reply to: MrSpad

no duh, how else do you compete? but i get what your saying. NATO strengthened its alliance with former soviet states to increase security. but don't you see how this is seen as hostile action to Russians? NATO isn't exactly a sleepy puppy. they have no problems starting wars to get a leg up*cough ukraine! cough**cough georgia! cough*.

and what do you mean finish it off for good? they did. after the soviet union fell Russian assets were bought up by westerners for next to nothing. this in the modern world is considered getting "finished off". the reason Putin is always called a kleptomaniac is because he took those assets back by force.

a reply to: paraphi

you do not understand the Russian people.

poland is important to poland not russia. you dont invade a country and magically acquire its GDP. what the he11 dude. lol.

and history hasnt shown that NATO/EU/US want control? why did russia annex crimea? why did russia even have to go into georgia? do you ever ask these questions? or did you just make a belief up and you follow that?