1812 so who won?

Having a debate with a American friend on whatsapp who claims the USA won the war of 1812. Well I say the UK won it.

Here my reasoning:

The USA was the aggressors. They were the ones with war aims.

UK as the defenders only had the burdon of keeping the status quo.


The war ended with the USA not achieving any of its war aims. The borders did not change and neither side gained or lost territory.

So in my opinion it was a British victory or at best a stalemate.

Also bare in mind all most all the UK armed forces were caught up fighting in Europe against napoleon. So the fact the USA didn’t really accomplish anything when the UK was treating the American theatre as an after thought to me also strikes me as a loss.

What does ATS think?

a reply to: crazyewok

Well, if you go by that conspiracy that says America is a British Colony and all of our money from the IRS goes directly to the Queen anyway, then the US definitely lost *chuckle

Also, as you point out (and I think you're right), the US did not accomplish its aims PLUS didn't the White House burn down? I call that a huge ole' L

and UK getting the W on that one

a reply to: FamCore

Yeah the British raided DC and burned the place.

Of course it was only a raid. The UK just didnt have the man power to capture land as it was all tied up in Spain.

God forbid though if we were not fighting France and we had sent wellington over

a reply to: crazyewok
It was so much of an afterthought that it wasn't even mentioned in our school history lessons.
The burning of Washington was a titbit of information which I picked up originally from an issue of the National Geographic.

The Americans won in 1812.
Then they lost when FDR reinstated the central bank, making money legal tender instead of gold backed with the new deal.

The war was over taxation without representation, more so than independence. We liked being British. We hated paying for British #.

Inflation with legal tender currency is taxation without representation. The goals of the war were lost for sure.

a reply to: crazyewok

I suppose that Americans will say that USA won and Brits will say that UK won but me as a neutral observer, I say that North American Indians lost

The Native Americans were the ones that lost the most. Without the UK backing them up Americans could expand westward with little to no resistance.

originally posted by: imjack
The Americans won in 1812.
Then they lost when FDR reinstated the central bank, making money legal tender instead of gold backed with the new deal.

The war was over taxation without representation, more so than independence.

Inflation with legal tender currency is taxation without representation.

Your thinking of the wrong war mate

War of independence was 1776-1783

This is the war of 1812

originally posted by: imjack
The war was over taxation without representation, more so than independence..

I think you're talking about the earlier war, 1776-1783.
The U.S.A was already independent in the war of 1812.

a reply to: crazyewok

The war of 1812 was a cluster# and a mistake. Hence why that particular war is glossed over in history classes. Most that anyone knows about it in the US is that the National Anthem was written (*ahem*I mean rewrote the words to an already existing song) and that the British burned down the capital. Sometimes you may hear about the battle fought in 1814 after the war was already over.

It was a slight win for the US as they grabbed some land down south during the war but really it was one of those wars where neither side was that interested in a long term effort. The US seemed to think it could just turn up and yell "freedom!!!" in a Mel Gibson style and they'd drop their interests in the crown for the US constitution but it seemed like there wasn't much interest that day.

If they tried it now the Canadians would just cut off the supply of proper bacon and the US would surrender within the hour

a reply to: crazyewok

The white American citizens still got to move west, despite the war with the British. The Native Americans got pushed out and lost much more.

a reply to: Brotherman

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

True.

The UK were not exactly innocent when it came to the Natives nor were our aims of stopping US expansion entirely for there benefit. But after 1812 they did get shafted more.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The USA was independant. The reason there was a second war is because the US did not want independance. They wanted decentralized banks. So both wars were over the same issue.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: crazyewok

The war of 1812 was a cluster# and a mistake. Hence why that particular war is glossed over in history classes. Most that anyone knows about it in the US is that the National Anthem was written (*ahem*I mean rewrote the words to an already existing song) and that the British burned down the capital. Sometimes you may hear about the battle fought in 1814 after the war was already over.

Yeah the the battle of New orleans has to have been one of the most pointless battles in history for both sides.

Still one thing that did come out of the war is the USA saw what a dismall outdated state its armed forces were and were able to improve.

originally posted by: imjack
Then they lost when FDR reinstated the central bank...

Roosevelt did not reinstate anything, the Federal Reserve predated him by four administrations.

originally posted by: Maxatoria
It was a slight win for the US as they grabbed some land down south during the war but really it was one of those wars where neither side was that interested in a long term effort. The US seemed to think it could just turn up and yell "freedom!!!" in a Mel Gibson style and they'd drop their interests in the crown for the US constitution but it seemed like there wasn't much interest that day.

If they tried it now the Canadians would just cut off the supply of proper bacon and the US would surrender within the hour

Nope the USA did not grab any land off the British. Actually if anything the UK gained land as we secured Bermuda as a Royal Navy port.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

He didn't put the bank up to power admitedly. Turning the gold standard into monopoly money was more accurately the last nail in the coffin of us 'losing' rather than winning.

The wars started over taxes. The Boston tea party, etc. Americans never denied their British roots. They didn't want to be taxed unfairly. Taxes was just replaced with inflation (AND TAXES).

originally posted by: imjack
He didn't put the bank up to power admitedly.

Then why say it?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: imjack
The Americans won in 1812.
Then they lost when FDR reinstated the central bank, making money legal tender instead of gold backed with the new deal.

The war was over taxation without representation, more so than independence.

Inflation with legal tender currency is taxation without representation.

Your thinking of the wrong war mate

War of independence was 1776-1783

This is the war of 1812

Sure. So the war of 1812 has nothing to do with the US Bank charter ending in 1811 and being put up for renewal. :^)