The Shroud of Turin - Did Jesus Resurrect?

a reply to: St Udio

I would disagree, he was the word made flesh, the word is spirit and throughout history there have been encounter's with dead people whom appeared real solid living but then just vanished, those were normal human souls like the soldier whom was seen walking up the street and going to his front door by the neighbour whom waved and he waved back too but whom thought he was stationed in france.

Turned out he was stationed in france and had died at about the same time or just before he was seen as a living person by the neighbour.

Jesus was spirit, he became flesh and suffered physical death (but he was still a spirit manifest as flesh), when he rose from death he spent 40 days in which time he was seen by man but while some of those encounter's were seemingly physical others were apparitional and when he ascended he did so with cloud's (Mist, Ectoplasm, Being's of light, Spirit).

That is one way he is still with us now, he is not just a body, in the body he localised himself and took on mortal existance but that very body was not like your's or mine in that it was his spirit manifest as flesh - not of the earth how many time's did he say he was not of this world.

Of course I could be wrong and it does not matter to my belief either way but it is a plausible thought line to me.

a reply to: GetHyped

Can you name another person who in history was beaten whipped crucified wore a crown of thorns and had his side pierced by a spear that didn't have thier legs broken?
If the shroud is authentic it can only be of one individual from history...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Just because we don't know how the shroud was made does not make it an authentic religious article. We don't know precisely how the Egyptians built the Pyramids in such a short time scale, if they used ramps or cranes, we don't know how they drilled granite and diorite vases without leaving marks but they did, we don't know how the stones at Baalbek (weighing 1500 - 2000 tonnes) were moved and put into place but they were. We could do none of these things today using the tools that were available at the time but just because we can't replicate it does not mean they or the shroud are supernatural miracles.

The face on the shroud looks like a medieval portrait of of a white, Westernised Jesus, complete with beard and long hair, probably because it is a medieval representation of what they thought Jesus would have looked like but he wasn't European he was a first century Arab from North Africa. There are lots of portraits that have survived from this none of them look white Europeans. It's a fake, it's a good fake and well done but it's still a fake !

a reply to: ratgirl65

Well I'm honoured you created an account just to tell me your version of the shroud...
He does not appear to be a westernized white Jesus to me looking at the shroud...
However if you go back in the thread you will see a man named Joseph mentioned who was the uncle of Mary the mother of Jesus... Joseph by coincidence had ties to England and many believe that is where he or his family was from...
So think on that for awhile...

the shroud of turin

a link

The shroud would not make a painted 2 dimensional picture a human, the laying of it would distort the image pressed onto the linens.

This image would have to have been laid on a 2 dimensional person to make that copy....

a reply to: charlyv

This is not true I can't find one of the newer sources I was looking for but here's an old one...
Blood on the shroud has definitely been confirmed...
greatshroudofturinfaq.com...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: charlyv

This is not true I can't find one of the newer sources I was looking for but here's an old one...
Blood on the shroud has definitely been confirmed...
greatshroudofturinfaq.com...

I did not say that blood had not been confirmed. It was a surface test, and the area sampled was not cut out or destroyed.
That test was picked out of blood material and analyzed with a SEM.

The point was, they have not been able to confirm the date on areas that contain the blood, because they have not been able to obtain a sample that could be large enough to be destroyed for the CF14 or Gas Spectrographic tests that are required.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly suspect the shroud is the real thing, but based solely upon my own personal congecture with evidence already obtained.

a reply to: charlyv

Sorry than I mistook what you said...
I'm not saying it is entirely proven either...
I just find it fascinating and like the evidence it does have to offer...

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The shroud would not make a painted 2 dimensional picture a human, the laying of it would distort the image pressed onto the linens.

This image would have to have been laid on a 2 dimensional person to make that copy....

The VP8 image analyzer was designed back in the 60's. When used on the shroud, it showed that the apparent 2D image was most likely produced from a 3D "projection"

Designed in the 1960's for evaluating x-rays and for other imaging purposes, the VP-8 Image Analyzer is an analog device that converts image density (lights and darks) into vertical relief (shadows and highlights). When applied to normal photographs, the result was a distorted and inaccurate image. However, when it was applied to the Shroud, the result was an accurate, topographic image showing the correct, natural relief characteristics of a human form. These results are often referred to as "three-dimensional."

Source:Shroud.com

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: charlyv

Sorry than I mistook what you said...
I'm not saying it is entirely proven either...
I just find it fascinating and like the evidence it does have to offer...

Cool
I find it fascinating as well. I have always been interested in this topic, and really wonder why they will not let the scientists do the thorough work they want to perform, the way they want to conduct it.

Lest you all forget, Jesus was born a Jew and died a Jew. He was born into a Rabbinical heritage to be a teacher and a Jewish scholar. Regardless what the so-called historical records report, Jesus never denied his Jewish faith and never endorsed a new religion. The word "Christian" came long after the man was dead.

The statement he supposedly made: "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" is a complete fabrication. Jesus spoke Aramaic - there is no word in Aramaic for "church".

Christianity hijacked the man and turned him into something he never intended.

3d image evidence

“The presence of 3D information encoded in a 2D image is quite unexpected as well as unique,” Downing said. “It is as if there is an instruction set inside a picture for building a sculpture.”

mobile.wnd.com...

a reply to: Phantom423

Christianity hijacked the man and turned him into something he never intended.

Christianity = Christ
Christ = Jesus

So, what are you saying... That Christ hijacked himself?

a reply to: Phantom423

Jesus was not opposed to the Jewish beliefs but he was definitely opposed to the ways of the Jewish religious leaders...
Or did you forget that?
Infact these same Jewish religious leaders are the very ones who condemned him to death...
His followers wrote thier own accounts so that's a massive fail, let alone all the other information which shows Christ came to establish a new covenant and to refine faith itself....
This thread is about the shroud not faith or a lack thereof or to promote deception in attempt to destroy people's faith...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I apologize for interrupting the conversation. It wasn't my intent.

a reply to: Phantom423

No need to apologize for sharing just found the message troubling...
From what we have to go on Jesus was rather clear about what he thought and wanted...
Peace

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: 5StarOracle

There is no evidence that it is actually the shroud of Jesus Christ in the slightest. You have provided nothing of the kind.

And no, I don't need to provide evidence that the shroud is fake. YOU need to provide evidence for the extraordinary claim that the shroud is what it is claimed to be. That's how the burden of proof works.

Then you just keep right on believing it is a 16th cen. fake with no evidence.

See how that works?

originally posted by: Phantom423
Lest you all forget, Jesus was born a Jew and died a Jew. He was born into a Rabbinical heritage to be a teacher and a Jewish scholar. Regardless what the so-called historical records report, Jesus never denied his Jewish faith and never endorsed a new religion. The word "Christian" came long after the man was dead.

The statement he supposedly made: "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" is a complete fabrication. Jesus spoke Aramaic - there is no word in Aramaic for "church".

Christianity hijacked the man and turned him into something he never intended.

Christian means; "little christ" a derogatory term for His followers by the romans.

Jesus came to fulfill the jewish law, so they could eat shellfish.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

What?? How is that even an argument? It's laughingly bad.