Shawna Cox Video from Inside LaVoy's Truck

a reply to: Xcathdra

Is it normal practice for Police to shoot at moving oncoming vehicles approaching a roadblock ?

Is it normal practice to shoot at a suspect the moment they exit a vehicle ?

It is normal practice to offload 3 rounds into a suspect to incapacitate them ?

a reply to: Discotech

1. Was the feds that shot at him 1st, they are under investigation
2. refer to #1
3. Police are trained to shoot to kill, not incapacitate. Reaching for a sidearm will always get you shot.

Oh I'm sure there will be a thorough investigation alright!

FBI Comprehensive Investigation Report and Findings;

"Yep, he got shot."

...(END)...


Next case, please.

a reply to: dragonridr

Your right, it seems like failure to comply has been a capital offense in the US for a while now.

If you cannot see that this man, no matter who he was or said, was simply ambushed and killed you are blind. If this video was of a NBPP member people would be crying racism and cities would be burning. Since it was a farmer who was upset with the government the MSM calls him a wingnut and that's it. A domestic terrorists.

Did you hear the passengers? Did you hear them shooting at the passengers? Why? There was no threat. They killed that man in cold blood and if they could would have killed the entire car. I still think someone who got inside made sure this was set and and they ended it.

Folks, never, ever, stop standing up for what you believe in. Ever. Because in my eyes, this is the first murder of a domestic terrorist(as classified by the FBI, DOJ and DHS) on US soil. Will drone strike be next?

As much as I loath the tactics of authorities in these situations, it's important to not lose sight of the bigger picture either. So, let's summarize a bit...

Fact - There was no "family" inside Finnicum's truck...unless you consider brothers at arms as family.

Fact - Finnicum's sole source of income, by his own admission, was from State / Federal monies for fostering children, not raising cattle despite all the "rancher" references.

Fact - Finnicum, like Bundy, had refused to pay grazing leases to the BLM. So, while he generated little if any monetary revenue from grazing, he had use of the land for cattle production for whatever purpose. (speculation - he could have been producing cattle for organizations such as the FLDS).

Fact - Both Finnicum and Cox are/were from a lawless area in southern Utah / northern Arizona known for repeated encounters with both federal and state law enforcement over issues such as polygamy, forced marriage, challenging authority, corruption, incest and pedophilia. On a side note; another notorious criminal figure was a prominent figure in this same community, Warren Jeffs, leader of the Fundmentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) "church'. Jeffs is now serving time in a federal penitentiary for child molestation.

Fact - The very vehicle Finnicum was driving is questionable in origin and likely obtained under questionable circumstances. It has been widely reported Finnicum arrived in Oregon in a truck with 'government plates'. Finnicum was not a government "employee".

Fact - Finnicum did speed off from the first traffic stop. There can be no argument on this point. He was "fleeing/eluding" law enforcement.

Fact - Finnicum did fail to follow instructions upon exiting the vehicle. He was told repeatedly to "get on the ground!". He did not do this.

Fact - Finnicum did challenge officers to 'shoot me'.

originally posted by: matafuchs
If you cannot see that this man, no matter who he was or said, was simply ambushed and killed you are blind. If this video was of a NBPP member people would be crying racism and cities would be burning. Since it was a farmer who was upset with the government the MSM calls him a wingnut and that's it. A domestic terrorists.

Did you hear the passengers? Did you hear them shooting at the passengers? Why? There was no threat. They killed that man in cold blood and if they could would have killed the entire car. I still think someone who got inside made sure this was set and and they ended it.

Folks, never, ever, stop standing up for what you believe in. Ever. Because in my eyes, this is the first murder of a domestic terrorist(as classified by the FBI, DOJ and DHS) on US soil. Will drone strike be next?

A 'farmer who was upset with the government'??? Oh how very non-descriptive of you. The man was a part of a group of delusional lunatics who took over a Federal wildlife sanctuary, rifled through things that did not belong to them, caused property damage and then claimed that it was now a resource centre for their mythical organisation. Then he drove off from a traffic stop (having threatened the officers), tried to kill an agent by running him over and then jumped out and ran about shouting that they'd have to kill him.
I have 0% sympathy for him.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Anyone in this thread should know who he is. I am not going to post a bio. I am not saying what he did was smart but it did not warrant being killed without a threat to law enforcement.

He taunted them. Last time I checked that was not a crime either. They took over the center as a protest, right? So, I guess all protesters should be shot. Next time BLM or PETA stops traffic or throws pigs blood light them up, right?

This is about precedent. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty...he should have been hit with non-lethal ammo options. They knew he was coming. Then arrest him and make a point. They knew it was easier to kill him so they would not have to deal with it.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Fact - Finicum was shot at the moment he exited the vehicle WITH HIS HANDS UP

You really think someone is going to follow instructions when those yelling instructions are shooting at them ?

Fact - They shot at his car as it approached the roadblock

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
tried to kill an agent by running him over

That agent jumped in front of the vehicle. Your opinion loses all validity when you blatantly lie

If he really had some documents that they confiscated, I'm sure that there were copies somewhere. Hee seemed to know that there was attempt to shut him up, and whatever he had was worth killing him over, I'm sure that the other copies of what he had will surface soon enough so that we can find out what this is all really about.

next time i get pulled over im gonna try this, so everyone will make me a martyr too.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Fact - Finicum was shot at the moment he exited the vehicle WITH HIS HANDS UP

You really think someone is going to follow instructions when those yelling instructions are shooting at them ?

Fact - They shot at his car as it approached the roadblock

they shot at him. they did not hit him. and yes id listen to the cops if they shot anywhere near me. it doesnt really matter if they shot his tires or the car. its clear they didnt shoot him as he got out of that car because he still did his little dance and kept yelling shoot me.

its clear from the previous video he got out of the car and reached for the gun in his jacket. then 3 shots were fired killing him.

After hearing the audio and seeing the way LaVoy acted, I can't imagine that this was going to turn out any other way.

I think that both parties have earned some blame here, because LaVoy should have handled it differently (I mean, who jumps out of their car in an aggressive fashion yelling "shoot me" when it appears that they're already being shot at) and the FBI should have shown more restraint when using deadly force (probably a pipe dream in this type of a scenario, though, and I can see the "why" behind that).

Just an all-around craptastic scenario, but I don't think that the FBI--at all--had a reason or a right to continue to fire at that vehicle once the person that they deemed to be the aggressor was shot to death. There was no evidence of aggression or weapons, that I can see, from the other occupants in the vehicle, but I do think that LaVoy asked for exactly what he got--asked for it multiple times.

I know that this won't be a popular comment, but so be it.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Fact - Finicum was shot at the moment he exited the vehicle WITH HIS HANDS UP

You really think someone is going to follow instructions when those yelling instructions are shooting at them ?

Fact - They shot at his car as it approached the roadblock

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
tried to kill an agent by running him over

That agent jumped in front of the vehicle. Your opinion loses all validity when you blatantly lie

You're the one who's lying now. He was not shot the moment he left the car, he was shot when he was well away from it - whilst yelling that they should shoot him and when he himself was armed. As for the officer jumping in front of the vehicle I think that you need new eyeballs.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

He was not shot the moment he left the car...

Yes, he was actually shot as he left the vehicle:

What happened in just seconds after that crash could lead to criminal charges against the FBI agents.

Cox's video showed that one shot hit the truck's left rear passenger window as Finicum stepped out. At the time, Finicum appeared to have his hands at least at shoulder height.

Investigators later established that the bullet entered the truck through the roof before shattering the window and concluded it was fired by an FBI agent. Another bullet from the same FBI agent apparently went wild and missed the truck altogether, the investigation showed.

FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

There is an ATS thread for discussion here.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

He was not shot the moment he left the car...

Yes, he was actually shot as he left the vehicle:

What happened in just seconds after that crash could lead to criminal charges against the FBI agents.

Cox's video showed that one shot hit the truck's left rear passenger window as Finicum stepped out. At the time, Finicum appeared to have his hands at least at shoulder height.

Investigators later established that the bullet entered the truck through the roof before shattering the window and concluded it was fired by an FBI agent. Another bullet from the same FBI agent apparently went wild and missed the truck altogether, the investigation showed.

FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

There is an ATS thread for discussion here.

He was shot at. He was not actually hit at that point, when the situation was - just about - retrievable. Instead he runs off, with his hands down and then moved them towards his gun - whilst shouting 'shoot me'.

a reply to: Discotech

He had 4 innocent people in that truck and was asking to get shot in the head? Yea that's normal behavior for someone trying to negotiate terms. smh

What kind of an deranged self-centered A-hole, regardless of the situation, asks to get shot with 4 other people in the vehicle?

It's one thing to stage a protest, exercise rights, and be a conscious objector, but a completely different story when someone handles a situation like this.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

No offense bro, but this part of your post is a logical fallacy and despicable.

Fact - Both Finnicum and Cox are/were from a lawless area in southern Utah / northern Arizona known for repeated encounters with both federal and state law enforcement over issues such as polygamy, forced marriage, challenging authority, corruption, incest and pedophilia. On a side note; another notorious criminal figure was a prominent figure in this same community, Warren Jeffs, leader of the Fundmentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) "church'. Jeffs is now serving time in a federal penitentiary for child molestation.

How dense are you to post something like that? That isn't a fact, that is a fallacy: Guilt by association.

And then this:

Fact - Finnicum did fail to follow instructions upon exiting the vehicle. He was told repeatedly to "get on the ground!". He did not do this

Now whether you intentionally lied or are just ignorant of the situation is unknown, but he was not told to get on the ground when he exited the vehicle. He was immediately shot at. No wonder you posted the drivel above, dense is dense.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Just an all-around craptastic scenario, but I don't think that the FBI--at all--had a reason or a right to continue to fire at that vehicle once the person that they deemed to be the aggressor was shot to death. There was no evidence of aggression or weapons, that I can see, from the other occupants in the vehicle, but I do think that LaVoy asked for exactly what he got--asked for it multiple times.

I know that this won't be a popular comment, but so be it.

Closer to the truth of it as we see. I think that some of the shots fired at the stopped vehicle after Levoy got out were to open the windows so that tear gas rounds could be fired into the openings. Some of the impacts were tear gas rounds. Still others may have been directed at the tires.

It was not a fuselade of shots to try and kill. If they had wanted to do that, they could have easily. The car doors are no match to hi powered rifles with the right kind of ammunition.

So we hear her say at one point "they are shooting out the windows", I can see their heads above the door jamb on several occasions. They were not trying to kill the occupants, they were trying to get them to exit. Of course they feared for their life, Levoy was shot and killed after he got out. We hear them say, "I'm not getting out, they'll shoot me".

Finally we hear the voices from outside say, 'get out the car'.

Finally. You'd think with all the pre planning and professionalism they would have brought a bull horn or used the PA on their vehicles.

"This is the police, come out with your hands up."

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

He was shot at.

Yes, he was shot at and had every reason and right to fear for his own life, as well as the lives of everyone else in the vehicle.

He was not actually hit at that point...

So? All that tells me is that the murderous FBI agent was a lousy shot... and Finicum's life was still in danger.

... when the situation was - just about - retrievable.

Nothing was "retrievable" because law enforcement had already created and perpetuated a dangerous and no-win situation for everyone involved.

Instead he runs off, with his hands down and then moved them towards his gun - whilst shouting 'shoot me'.

In a heroic and valiant effort to save the others by making himself the target, as the LEOs had already made it obvious they were out for blood -- his and everyone in the vehicle.

Finicum was a hero. The FBI agents aren't fit to spit shine his combat boots.