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Trouble Brewing between the PKK/PYD and Peshmerga/Yarzidis/Syrian Kurds

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posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 03:22 PM
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No secret the Kurds have a long history of not getting along and fighting each other. In particular the PKK has long been at odds with other Kurdish groups. The PKK long enemies of the Turks while the Syrian and Iraqi Kurds long supported by the Turks (and by Israel as well). When ISIS came along and things were looking dire everybody put things aside and fought ISIS. Now that ISIS is on its last leg trouble is brewing about post ISIS Kurdish territories. We have already seen problems between the Iraqi kurds/Sunnis/Turks and the Shia Dominated Iraqi Government setting up a likely division in Iraq after ISIS. And trouble between the Turks/Iraqi Kurds and the PKK. And now more as it seems the PKK and their PYD allies seem to be maneuvering to control the northern areas of Iraq and Syria. Yazidis: PKK keeping us from fighting ISIS




“The PKK is the main reason behind the delay of the Shingal operation,” Qasim Shesho, the head of the Yazidi forces organized to resist ISIS occupation in August 2014, told Rudaw, a Kurdish news outlet. “Let them go and save the Kurds in Syria and Turkey, but we will never let them gain power over Shingal,” he said of the PKK, adding that his forces “do not want to start a fight” with the PKK





Bas News, another Kurdish outlet, quotes a Peshmerga commander expressing the same reservations about the presence of the PKK in the region. Sme Bosali claims that his troops halted plans to rid the region of ISIS after a sudden, major move of PKK forces, along with Syrian Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG/YPJ), into the region.





The current head of the Peshmerga, Kurdistan Regional Government President Masoud Barzani, has also rejected the PKK’s presence in the region. The Peshmerga issued an official statement last week announcing that they will allow no other militias to participate in the liberation of Sinjar, stating that Barzani had already issued an order to both the PKK and YPG fighters to stay out of the region. Barzani, who has close ties to the Turkish government — the PKK’s main state enemy — has previously demanded the PKK evacuate Iraq and criticized the group’s relations with the Turkish government.


This has lead to the PKK/PYD blocking Peshmerga forces headed to Syria to help with final pushes on ISIS. The PYD already has a history of pushing the other Syrian Kurdish groups who are more political and less military around. PYD/YP G blocking Peshmerga fighters




Iraqi Kurds have said that the PYD cannot be considered a group that represents all Kurds in Syria and that the group's legitimacy has declined for them. The PYD has forced 13 Syrian Kurdish parties to leave PYD territory.





In order to hinder the opposing voice from the KRG and Iraqi Kurds, the PYD banned Iraqi Kurdistan's Rudaw Media Network from operating in Kobani and the surrounding area last week.


This has lead accusations that the PYD is working with Assad. About the worst thing you can be accused of and something Assad seems to be playing along with



In December, Assad gave an interview to the U.K.'s The Sunday Times newspaper in which he said that the regime supplies arms to the PYD. PYD Co-Chair Salih Muslim said in an interview with Al-Hayat magazine in July that they could allow the return of Syrian regime forces to Rojava and that the YPG will join forces in a certain case.


Now this is not likely true as the YPG was created as a result of Assads crushing of Kurdish protests in 2004. Stopping Assad is the very reason for existence so it would seem unlikely they would hand over Kurdish territory to him. However, it would be wise for Assad to make such a claim to create divisions among the Kurds. Although, they could also just be using him, filling his head with false promises while they gain complete control over the other Syrian Kurds. Hard to tell at this point.

And this is where things get more complicated. The Iraqi Kurds and non PYD/YPG Syrian Kurds are supported by Turkey and the West. The YPG is supported by the US but, hated by the Turks, Iraqi Kurds, Other Syrian Kurds. The PKK are allied to the PYD/YPG who are hated by the Iraqi Kurds, Turks, Yazidis, other Syrian Kurds and are considered terrorist by the West. So what we have is a mess.

It would seem unlikely the other Syrian Kurdish groups have the muscle to deal with the PYD/YPG unless they have a great deal of Turkish/Peshmerga support. The Turks would more likely be interested in setting up a buffer zone than anything. In Iraq however we have the Peshmerga backed by the US and Turks and likely allied to the Iraqi Sunni's and Yazidis that will likely control Nothern Iraq. With PKK on its northern border in Turkey and the Iraq Government to its South. Who knows if that will end up in fighting or not.

As ISIS continues its decline more and more groups will me making moves to secure their future. Things are going to even harder to keep track of.




posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 03:32 PM
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Kurds want their own state. "Problems" between Turkey and Kurds? The Turks are attacking them with tanks and artillery because the Kurds are shooting at ISIS.

The US looks the other way when the Turks shell Kurdish neighborhoods just like they looked the other way when Saddam Hussein used US supplied nerve agents on the Kurds.

Reuters



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 03:38 PM
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Jeezuz gotta get a program......the PYD in the red shirts you say?
The end result may be a couple or three of tin pot kurdistans?



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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So the rest are going to turn on the PKK/PYD to fight a proxy war for Turkey.

This is how WW's start. Or is this how it's always been?


edit on 29/2/16 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Thanks for that sitrep. A good primer on what is an ongoing complex dynamic. The Kurds have been targets of all the states surrounding them for as long as I can remember. It is hard for a person far removed to see them not be strong in their joint military operations to protect all Kurds regardless.

What is the real basis for the division of these Kurdish forces? Is is a schism between different sects of Islam? I see muslims in the region being their own worst enemy over the differences between Shia and Sunni. Being from the US a country where all religions are accepted it is hard to even understand the wars in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics because they are still all christians.

This division will be exploited by outside regional forces and I can see Assad using psyops and saying one of them is cooperating with him. It is hard to keep track of all these groups and their sometimes alliances even for single battlefield objectives and opposition over other objectives. How there can be a peace is much more complicated as a result.



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
So the rest are going to turn on the PKK/PYD to fight a proxy war for Turkey.

This is how WW's start. Or is this how it's always been?



Well this is nothing new and they do not see it as fighting for Turkey, they see it as using Turkey to support their groups. The Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria have always seen themselves as independent of each other and tend to get upset when one group tries to get involved in another ones area. In this case we have the PKK trying to make inroads in both Iraq and Syria. In Iraq they have little chance but, in Syria allied with the PYD they do as the other dozen Kurdish groups do not have much in the way of military forces.

While the Iraqi Kurds would not be happy with a PKK dominated Syria Kurdish area they are not likely to do anything about it beyond train and arm the other Syrian Kurdish groups. The Peshmerga will have enough problems dealing the PKK in the North and Iraqi Government in in the South. However it it would be expected the the Pershmerga would back in Yarzidis in pushing the PKK out of Iraq.

Best case scenario would be if the West could use promises of aid to the YPG in Syria on the grounds it cut ties with the PKK. That would mean the Turks would accept them, the other Syrian Kurds would be more willing to work with them and US aid could flow in. Of course they would still have deal with Assad down the road no matter who is running the show. Otherwise we will likely have Kurds fighting Kurds in Syria with Turkey forming a buffer zone along the border of some sort.



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: MrSpad

Thanks for that sitrep. A good primer on what is an ongoing complex dynamic. The Kurds have been targets of all the states surrounding them for as long as I can remember. It is hard for a person far removed to see them not be strong in their joint military operations to protect all Kurds regardless.

What is the real basis for the division of these Kurdish forces? Is is a schism between different sects of Islam? I see muslims in the region being their own worst enemy over the differences between Shia and Sunni. Being from the US a country where all religions are accepted it is hard to even understand the wars in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics because they are still all christians.

This division will be exploited by outside regional forces and I can see Assad using psyops and saying one of them is cooperating with him. It is hard to keep track of all these groups and their sometimes alliances even for single battlefield objectives and opposition over other objectives. How there can be a peace is much more complicated as a result.



The split between the groups seems to be based mostly along national lines. The Iraqi Kurds do want the Turkish Kurds in their business vice versa etc. We think of the them as Kurds, like they should be one big group but, a long history of being separated means they no longer have that sense of being one people. They all have separate political views and seem to have no interest is sharing power. They will work together against a common foe like ISIS but, that is a rare thing. With the PKK and allies openly hostile to Turkey and vice versa while at the same time the Turks being long time supporters of the Iraqi and Syrian Kurds you have one big area of disagreement. You have Kurds who see the Turks as oppressors and others who see them as allies and protectors. That they can not even agree on that much shows how divided they are. And yes outside powers will always exploit that. Something they are aware of but, go along with anyway. If the West made a new country called Kurdistan put all the Kurdish areas in it, it would likely be a nation with a 4 way civil war from day one. It is kind of sad but, the reality is what we have to deal with.



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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Isnt the Aga Kahn their spiritual leader?
Whats he say?



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Wow. Thanks for the detailed reply. With all the fighting and differences I don't see how peace can prevail now or in the long run. It doesn't seem to be in the culture of the region to live in peace unless they have a dictator over them with harsh authoritarian rule. It is sad to see EU having to deal with that mentality being brought in through immigration. And for the outside forces of the US, etc. to think destroying that rule and arming these opposing groups would result in a democratic regime is beyond comprehension.

These powers in the region with advanced intelligence capabilities and militaries will exploit these underlying issues to destroy so many more. I don't see the end game strategy in place and if it ends up like Iraq where there was no real end game strategy in place it will be much more problematic for the world for the foreseeable future. Did they think the region was going to just all join together in a democratic union? (rhetorical) I had thought of Kurds as one group before this thread. I had hoe that they could bring a peace to at least their AO. It seems even that hope was a fallacy.



posted on Feb, 29 2016 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: spirit_horse

They only way their will peace is if we end up with a bunch a small states with borders that make sense demographically. A big part of the problem now and the main reason these counties could only be held together by brutal dictators is that the Europeans just drew some lines on a map and declared them countries. People like Saddam, Assad, Quadaffi ect. Used these differences in their own nations to pit these groups against each other so they would not focus on them. So any chance of these people under those regimes of ever becoming one never had a chance. And so we have difference larger now than at anytime. Peace has a chance but, not as Iraq and Syria. As maybe 4 or 5 states maybe.



posted on Mar, 1 2016 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: intrptr




Kurds want their own state. "Problems" between Turkey and Kurds? The Turks are attacking them with tanks and artillery because the Kurds are shooting at ISIS.


They are also committing terrorist acts against Turkey...hence the reason they are being attacked by Turkey.


2 soldiers killed in two separate PKK terror attacks in southeast Turkey


www.dailysabah.com...


PKK terror attack leaves one police officer dead, two wounded in Turkey's southeast


www.dailysabah.com...

SO Turkey has the right to fight those who commit terrorist acts in their country...or should they just let it happen.

It isn't because they are fighting ISIS...but you seem to overlook that fact.
edit on 1-3-2016 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2016 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h


They are also committing terrorist acts against Turkey…

Do tell…

Heres the Turkish military gunning down civilians, waving white flags, during a funeral procession, no less.



posted on Mar, 1 2016 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: tsurfer2000h


They are also committing terrorist acts against Turkey…

Do tell…

Heres the Turkish military gunning down civilians, waving white flags, during a funeral procession, no less.



That video has a big edit in the middle of it, why is that? Who is shooting? That video shows nothing. As is the PKK are know terrorist and no doubt that causes a lot of tension between them and the Turks. That both sides do terrible things to each other goes without saying. Age old enemies are like that. As it also causes a lot of tension between the PKK and the Peshmerga and the other Kurdish groups. Which is why the Iraqi Kurds and Yarzidis are on the verge of fighting PKK forces that are blocking them from ISIS.



posted on Mar, 1 2016 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad


That video has a big edit in the middle of it, why is that? Who is shooting?

Its been edited and shortened. The day it came out it was horrific, people moaning, dying, blood flowing on camera.

You are willfully blind to not see the tank down the street, in the middle of the street, pointing at the procession?

Look again.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Cool avatar. I love the thing. Favorite sci fi movie of all time. Maybe that is the ultimate problem in the world. That everyone is turning into the thing. There really are no kurds or turks or egyptians or europeans. We are all the thing!
edit on 8-1-2017 by RbotMurgolas because: (no reason given)



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