Dogs and Certain Primates May Be Able To See Magnetic Fields

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Bedlam

Another thing to consider here Bedlam is the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) process. Of course this employs pulses of radio wave energy and a computer to make pictures of organs and structures inside the body so I'm not saying that a dog's retina structure is at all similar to this process, but it seems to indicate that magnetic lines of force can produce "images". Technically, however, the image comes from radio frequency changes in the atoms and not the magnetic field itself. Still, it is a concept to consider for some out of the box thoughts on this subject.

Good Lord. Are you seriously going there?

You wonder if a dog's eye is similar to an MRI machine, since MRI imaging produces images and has "magnetic" in?

Do you..do you have any clue as to how MRI imaging works? If you did, I don't think you'd bring that idea up in public.

a reply to: Bedlam


I doubt this has anything to do with Hallucinations. More likely the effect of Earthquakes is enough to startle animals, in no different a way. Than really loud sound or really bright light causes a reaction in animals than the changes to the magnetic field, during an earth quake.

Animals react to such an event in no different a way than they would respond to fire in the visual sense, or an explosion in an auditory sense.

They simply respond to a threat in no different a way and an auditory or visual equivalent to sensing the magnetic effect of an Earthquake.

Which to them is profound enough to travel in an opposite direction from what the sense is a threat.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Bedlam


I doubt this has anything to do with Hallucinations.

Oh, I agree, it's just that one of the posters upthread was trying to imply that you could "see magnetic fields" if they caused you to recall a memory or something. SMH.

More likely the effect of Earthquakes is enough to startle animals, in no different a way. Than really loud sound or really bright light causes a reaction in animals than the changes to the magnetic field, during an earth quake.

Yes. The animals may be able to sense magnetic fields, and react to that, like detecting a smell or a flash of light. What they won't do is look at a wall socket across the room and "see the magnetic fields" there.

eta: there was some residual text from the other poster arguing the 'pro-hallucination' viewpoint I had forgotten to shave off.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: Bedlam

That doesn't say anything on how the brain perceives the information.

It's just a matter of time before we invent glasses to view magnetic fields and that light and magnetism are very close related imo.

Well, I guess "never" is a measure of time. You can't see magnetic fields, really, you can't. Or electric fields either.

Our understanding of all this is just at it's beginnings, it would be ignorant to believe what we know or think doesn't contain any errors.
As i said, further investigation could shed more light.

We're pretty cool on the basic behavior of light, electric, and magnetic fields. One elicits "sight", two others don't. Because electric and magnetic fields don't emit or reflect photons. They can't be refracted, and don't focus to provide an image. Hell, you can't even see radio waves and they're the same thing as light, only lower frequency.

The title of the thread is just a copy of the article which clearly says,...May Be Able To See Magnetic Fields.

Sure. I understand. But it's a magazine article writer's spin on a cool topic, and as usual, it's wrong.

Hell, they've got basic stuff wrong, too. They say that primates can't do it, and while they may not do it through cytochrome in the retina like a dog, I've known many a person that could tell you north, even when they were underground. I can't do it. But we did some ad hoc experimentation on a few people, and they could always find north, even disoriented in a new environment and unable to get visual cues from the sky (some people can see polarization in the blue light of the sky that tells them the direction of North). We were able to fox them by putting them in the SCIF, which is pretty well shielded by steel walls. But outside it, they got it in a few seconds.

But,I can see for miles and miles and miles!

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Bedlam

I totally get what your saying here Bedlam, but I politely disagree somewhat as I believe there is no real image in the brain, merely on the retina.

No information, no image. It's really that simple.

You can't "see" an detailed image created by something that's giving you a vector and an intensity. I don't care if it conjures up memories of the old home place, that's not "seeing" magnetic fields.

You guys are frantically doing backflips trying to beat this into "seeing magnetic fields". It's sad, really it is.

If no structure in your eye interacts with magnetic fields but your retina, you will. Not. Form. An. Image. Damn, man. Pinholes are for photons. Magnetic fields are not photons.

BTW, real image is opposed to virtual image, it's an optics term, not a philosophical statement on whether perception is real or not.

And if you're high on some hallucinogen and a scent is 'perceived as sight', I guarantee you you can't read by it, or tell who's in the room, unless it's Mr Horse. Because there's no information there. It's triggering a memory.

I thought I eplained this already their visual que is a decrease in vision or light intensity. Depending on the alignment will determine if things are brighter or darker for animals. They don't see the magnetic field lines their vision is effected by them. This isn't even née birds do this they just found out that many animals have them that's all. Why do people take science and turn it into their interpretation when you can read the paper.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I forget where I saw the study but it was a sampling of dog owners who were asked to record which direction their dogs faced when relieving themselves and close to 70% of the time they aligned themselves with magnetic north.

I know my two dogs do this as they will simultaneously face the same direction while taking a dump on the neighbors lawn.

He can than Obama for that.

You must have north facing dogs,I ,on the other hand ,have south facing zaxes,I mean dogs!

a reply to: Bedlam


Whales navigate the oceans by interpreting magnetic fields. Then a question becomes to what extent do they apply such a sensitivity to acquiring prey?

originally posted by: dragonridr
Why do people take science and turn it into their interpretation when you can read the paper.

The science journos dumb it down, and use sloppy language. People read it, and take it literally.

The other day someone was frantically trying to find a way that neutrons had DNA. Literally. Was making all sorts of wild philosophical arguments trying to claim that basic nucleons literally had DNA in.

He had read an article where the lead scientist had said "In order to determine what sort of particle this is, we're going to have to come up with some sort of DNA test that can reveal if it's a baryon"

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Bedlam


I doubt this has anything to do with Hallucinations. More likely the effect of Earthquakes is enough to startle animals, in no different a way. Than really loud sound or really bright light causes a reaction in animals than the changes to the magnetic field, during an earth quake.

Animals react to such an event in no different a way than they would respond to fire in the visual sense, or an explosion in an auditory sense.

They simply respond to a threat in no different a way and an auditory or visual equivalent to sensing the magnetic effect of an Earthquake.

Which to them is profound enough to travel in an opposite direction from what the sense is a threat.

Thereally was a study I read on this determined it was auditory. Apparently dogs with hearing impairments showed no anxiety before a quake. There is a pretty waves which travel faster and we can use this to detect earthquakes as well giving about 90 seconds warning. It's believed dogs hear the stresses caused by these waves.

The belief that animals can predict earthquakes has been around for centuries.

In 373 B.C., historians recorded that animals, including rats, snakes and weasels, deserted the Greek city of Helice in droves just days before a quake devastated the...

Source


I really do not see the problem under the circumstances that a sonic event was the result.

Nonetheless Geomagnetic field changes do occur during Earthquakes. And in relation to animals including humans that can sense magnetic fields. The effect, would be disruptive in relation to. Day to day experiences, given the ability to sense such events.

In consideration Monarch Butterflies migrate........

AHA! I knew it!

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Bedlam

Another thing to consider here Bedlam is the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) process. Of course this employs pulses of radio wave energy and a computer to make pictures of organs and structures inside the body so I'm not saying that a dog's retina structure is at all similar to this process, but it seems to indicate that magnetic lines of force can produce "images". Technically, however, the image comes from radio frequency changes in the atoms and not the magnetic field itself. Still, it is a concept to consider for some out of the box thoughts on this subject.

Good Lord. Are you seriously going there?

You wonder if a dog's eye is similar to an MRI machine, since MRI imaging produces images and has "magnetic" in?

Do you..do you have any clue as to how MRI imaging works? If you did, I don't think you'd bring that idea up in public.

After reading that I said, "Of course this employs pulses of radio wave energy and a computer to make pictures of organs and structures inside the body so I'm not saying that a dog's retina structure is at all similar to this process" you try to say that I claim that "a dog's eye is similar to an MRI machine". This is not what I said. You keep ignoring what I am actually saying while you twist my words in a lame attempt to support your points (that I actually agreed with all along). You sir are someone who the T&Cs will not allow me to describe accurately. IMO you are the type of person whose condescending and insulting attitude lowers the quality of ATS in general and the science forum in particular.

So I will now give you what you want from those of us who might try to express any idea here (even while agreeing with you).

Bedlam - I'm not worthy. Your wisdom and intelligence out shine all others. I submit to your mighty intellect and admit my utter failure to comprehend any ration thought as you so rightly have pointed out with your flawless statements.

I will never address any subject that your ultimate knowledge has given the final word upon, even if I agree with you as I have in my other posts here. I formally retract my insane ramblings and humbly apologize for agreeing with you while adding some other unacceptable and unworthy perspectives. Forgive me Bedlam, for I have sinned. I hope I will be absolved by doing some "Hail Bedlams" and some "Our Bedlams" after confession.

From:Bedlam

"No information, no image. It's really that simple."

A point being information is being exchanged.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck


Forgive me Bedlam, for I have sinned. I hope I will be absolved by doing some "Hail Bedlams" and some "Our Bedlams" after confession.

Much better. Ego te absolvo, in nomine Einstein, et Neumann, et spiritu Feynman.

originally posted by: Kashai
From:Bedlam

"No information, no image. It's really that simple."

A point being information is being exchanged.

The next sentence is something like You get a vector and an magnitude, that's it

a reply to: Bedlam


Which is enough to set a course

a reply to: Kashai

So, if you put a bar magnet on their collars, do they go in circles?

originally posted by: Bedlam
Yes. The animals may be able to sense magnetic fields, and react to that, like detecting a smell or a flash of light. What they won't do is look at a wall socket across the room and "see the magnetic fields" there.

I am going to risk sounding dumb here, but what about the trace magnetites in human brain tissue. I know that we are talking only really small amounts, but how sensitive is the dog's magnetic vision?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Can they see inside our heads?



Thanks.

a reply to: Bedlam

Well, at least you have a sense of humor Bedlam. Star for that and your clever use of Latin.