Muslim migration into European countries

a reply to: Thetan

I really can't find anything good in it. To me their islamic culture seems at least medieval, at some aspects "stone-ageish". So sorry for those who really need asylum but can't make it here. In my country 95% of the so called "asylum seekers" are men, aged from 18 to 40. Most of them have military or police training. They are very demanding, complaining about almost everything. Very angry if their food doesn't meet their standards. If a person escapes from a life-threatening situation she or he will be happy to be alive. Most of them have iphones, expensive brand clothes and professionally made very fancy hairstyles. They ARE sexually harassing our wifes and doughters and even our sons and we, ordinary people in my (nordic) country can't take it any more. If this situation continues much longer I guess there will be civil uprisig at least in my country. I believe the situation is very similar across europe.

a reply to: Thetan


The impulse to 'help' is innate. Period. It is the measuring bar of humanity's ability to survive as a race.

Asking for rationale for European inclusion of refugees is like explaining why one helps a stranded motorist during a bad storm or stops a mugging. Why ask why? It requires no 'explanation' and should be lauded for itself.

If in helping, there becomes a betrayal of that help in sufficient volume or degree then that 'help' impulse will be replaced with a much nastier impulse...one that protects one's own survival and one's own nation and culture if now threatened by the group one thought one was originally helping.

Apparently, not that many have seen or experienced that betrayal, overall to alter that view.

Bottom line, why do you need an explanation beyond a willingness to help? Personally, my help would be more directed to improving their own lot elsewhere when there is insufficient work, money and even room to import that many refugees. Not no help....merely qualified help....

a reply to: Thetan
Given the circumstances I don't think many people are arguing it is a good thing. The argument is between those who think we have a moral responsibility to help these people on one side and those who just see them as a economic drain or cultural invasion.
The majority of the scare stories are exaggerations or blatant scaremongering.

a reply to: Phrygian
95% are men aged 18 to 40 mostly with military or police training. Hmmmm That does sound scary, can you provide a source for that?

a reply to: Thetan

Take a wild guess, 1+1=2.. Those you think are on your side, doesnt give a flying f*** about you..

a reply to: Thetan

Actually, I lied. I did try to think it through back in September of last year. My closest friend, next to my husband, works with the Swiss in trying to help the refugee problem there. Here’s a piece of the letter I had written to him back then. I think it’s okay to post it, since it is my letter. I know it isn’t good to have long posts. No one likes to read them, including me, but I, for one, tried to think it through and a piece of his response is quoted below. (A note of courteous clarity, we both come from a religious background so some personal jargon slips in. The reference to “making yourself one” is part of our Christian slang of what is attributed to be Jesus’ final wish on the cross…not that it has made a difference, but we try.)

I understand and admire what Switzerland and everyone else, especially you, are doing with the refugees. I'm also amazed at how I "feel" about this at a deeper more personal level because for so many years I have wanted to move to Switzerland, or at least entertain the fantasy, and there seem to be nothing but barriers because we don't seem to have what Switzerland would consider to be minimum qualities. And I have lived two years in Yugoslavia so I have some idea of the caliber of what is coming out of the other nations. So, the bottom line is that I am terribly jealous. And I already know the arguments in every direction here. So, that's the personal aspect. As for a greater, objective aspect, I am looking back in history a couple of years ago, when one group of dissatisfied people stood up to their government and began to riot. This soon gave courage to other countries and suddenly several groups of dissatisfied people from several countries began to riot. Again, this is understandable. But now one group is leaving in droves and then complaining about their reception elsewhere. Again, understandable, with a bit of a wince and the suppression of the observation of ungraciousness on their part. And I am sure that your experience is the opposite because you are making yourself one and doing everything within your power and such efforts are always immediately felt and understood. But what happens at the refugee equivalent of "seven times seventy plus one?" What happens when they tip the scale of what Switzerland can support? And then what happens when four more other country full of people are knocking on your door?

I think it's a matter of scale that no one is paying attention to. One person who is suppressed can seek solace elsewhere, especially if they have something to offer the other side. As long as it is mutually beneficial it will work, provided both sides are honest and realistic about what they have to offer -- and how far they are willing to go to follow through with their part of the bargain. It's like in trading, where you take a risk, but only a risk you can manage and afford and never ever more than 1 or 2 % of your entire portfolio on a single trade. The trade works for the portfolio and not the other way around. It's the same in metaphysics. It is a maxim that the individual works for the group and not the other way around. That's why the trading equivalent works, is because it is following a natural law.

The fact is, life is hard. It sucks. It was never meant to be this way but because of greed and corporations upsetting the balance, we now have a few people at the top with the vast majority of the wealth, and the vast majority of the people are living in poverty on poisoned soil with overpriced, poisoned and expensive food, breathing polluted air and trying to survive under selfish and even evil dictators. No land is an exception to this model, regardless of the language, costume or veneer. Most people are frustrated and angry. Those at the extreme of that, who also know, or at lease falsely believe that other people are better off, will want to migrate to that environment. And in a group spirit, they will do so with a vengeance and feel entitled to what they think the other has. Today's model is Syria. But they are guaranteed to be followed in like fashion by the next most suppressed country, and will be out pacing those remnants of Syria who are yet on their way.

Isn't anyone asking what the exit plan is for the effects of one nation superimposing itself quite literally on another? I'd be asking the question of what is motivating them and what is motivating what motivated them? When one person falls, people gather around and help. When a family falls, a few people come forth, if that many, to see what they can do to offer temporary help. When an entire city falls, people sigh and trust someone else to do something -- something like the Red Cross or some sort of mass relief, like from tornadoes or hurricanes. But never has an entire country tried to migrate in mass. And they aren't "trying" -- they're doing it and saying, "Here I am. Deal with me!" Did you see, and do you remember, the Little Shop of Horrors? "Feed me, Simon.”

It goes on, but that’s enough. A piece of his response, which I pray won’t get either of us in trouble, as we were just two old friends discussing the situation:

What an extraordinary analysis of our world situation, of God, Love and all the other unbalanced aspects which are part of our lifes.

Your are so right about how naive and shortshighted Switzerland and the other European countries have been welcoming refugees in recent times. There is "system" behind this huge mass exodus from the arabian world: to unbalance Europe and its ressources.
In the beginning certain countries like Germany would not even check the people coming into their country. They could have brought weapons, drugs or whatever.....you name it. On some people thousands of dollars have been found, so who is financing their journey? Could it be that Isis is infiltrating Europe through this apparent desaster of mankind? More and more facts about criminal aggression and activities of these newcomers are coming to the surface, but the governements are trying to keep them under the lid since their intention is to welcome needy people from war torn countries.......

I am really wondering what will happen next. Some visionary people are predicting a third world war or simply doomsday for all of humanity. In sight of this I would only want to be able to say that I have tried to love til the end, no matter what. I know that you are with me on this, right?

So let us live day by day, moment by moment...the past is gone and the future unknown….

I know it is easy to get angry and try to outwit each other in our clever remarks, but trust me, it’s different when you are up close and personal and hearing of the struggles that these people, and by that I mean everyone on all sides, are going through.

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Thetan
I do not understand how some people are of the opinion that the current migration of Muslim migrants into European nations is a good thing for the European nations. So I ask all of you reading this that do think it is a good idea, to explain yourselves so that I can understand. My question to you is why should European countries allow and continue allow this influx of Muslim migrants into their countries? I'm merely trying to understand.

For a large proportion they are people first, Muslim second whose actual former homeland is in the process of destruction where they cannot guarantee their own safety nor that of their family never mind find gainful employment. Don't worry about that though, call it a Muslim invasion, lots of people on ATS prefer that it seems as allows them to keep their prejudice and bias in full flow without looking at the bigger picture.

The bigger picture being destruction of their culture and mass rapes of their women?

Because that is all I am seeing from it.

Because of course non Muslim people born in the same country as you would never rape a woman, never rape a man - would they? If you read the first four lines of my post I said 'for a large proportion'. I am not suggesting every migrant is looking for asylum on a genuine basis, or that anyone is an angel, but if you choose to believe that everyone fleeing terror (which by the way for a large part comes from intervention from either America/Canada or countries within the EU) must therefore be a dangerous rapist then good luck with that.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I need an explanation because I don't understand. Whats in it for Europe?

I don't really like that word "Assimilate." I think that a lot of the fear and mistrust comes with the idea that if two cultures meet one has to assimilate completely into the other culture for them both to survive, but I don't think that really ever happens unless one culture subjugates another culture. When two or more cultures are pushed together you end up with an amalgamation of the cultures. Boundaries will be tested by both sides until "compromise" is no longer considered "losing your culture."

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: nwtrucker

I need an explanation because I don't understand. Whats in it for Europe?

Why does there have to be something 'in it for Europe' to want to help? I wouldn't. They would and are. Simple.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Shouldn't Europe be concerned about it's own well being and interests? Another question. Do you think a large migration of Muslim migrants into Europe will hurt European people, European culture, or European countries in any way; that is will it hurt European culture, people, and countries more than it will help them?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Do You think in countries like Irak or Afghanistan men can avoid military training? Not even in EU country I am living in. My sources are in finnish language.

a reply to: Thetan

Personally, I would not move to Syria, but had I reasons to then, me and my family would do our best to assimilate and respect the laws ( within reason ) of the culture we are starting a new life in.

I expect immigrants to do the same, but not all will of course.

Further more, is there a reason Europe should take them in, in the first place?

It's not that the people have a moral obligation to take millions of refugees, but their leaders have a responsibility for finding a solution. ALONG with the coalition that SHOULD exist among the Gulf states.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Phrygian
a reply to: ScepticScot

Do You think in countries like Irak or Afghanistan men can avoid military training? Not even in EU country I am living in. My sources are in finnish language.

Does the office of madey up statistics not have an English language site? Who knew?

The general thought would be that the Europeans are doing their superior duty and "Helping" these Poor(?) people.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of these people are NOT Refugees...They are Immigrant Opportunists, they are simply going to Europe, while the gates are open, with their number one priority of getting as much as they can for free.
Free Housing,
Free Food,
Free TVs,
Free iPhones,
Free Clothes,
Free Money, more they had before.

Of course, this is not enough, they want MORE.........And then there is Europe itself......Those Europeans are all White, the cant speak Arab, they eat rubbish food, their women are sluts and pigs, it is too cold, too much snow, forrests too spooky, etc etc.

If these Opportunists believed in "Helping", why have they left their Own country's, and not stayed put to "Help" their own people, to fight for justice and a better country??
WHy have all the strong, fit 18-40 single men, Left the majority of their women and Old people back in the "Old" country, while they live off the European Scum paypack.....
Why not go to Saudi Arabia or Dubai etc, that have 10s of thousands of Philipinos, and Pakistanis who work and make a living.....and it is part of their own culture and even Climate?.

This is the reason many thinking "White People" of European heritage, question the intelligence of the Loony Leftists, who wan to "Help"...

If Europe wants more immigrants, How about putting a call out to all the Children of Europe to Return to the Homelands, and be welcomed with open arms.

There are 4 million European South Africans who want to return to to the Home country, but Europe says they are Foreigners....but the Arabs are welcome??????

Why not put out a call to the main White countries, Australia, North America, Argentina, NZ, to come home and help them.
Give free Europe Access to All People of the White Ancestors who went to the New World, some willingly, some not.
Bring you OWN people home first (obviously not the criminals tho).

What these Arab from Syria need is to be helped in their own country, to rebuild their own.....not try to Assimilate them into a Very foreign Euro culture.........

See Easy fixed......

a reply to: Kantjil

Please explain why not. They survived about 1000 years without.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Thetan
I do not understand how some people are of the opinion that the current migration of Muslim migrants into European nations is a good thing for the European nations. So I ask all of you reading this that do think it is a good idea, to explain yourselves so that I can understand. My question to you is why should European countries allow and continue allow this influx of Muslim migrants into their countries? I'm merely trying to understand.

For a large proportion they are people first, Muslim second whose actual former homeland is in the process of destruction where they cannot guarantee their own safety nor that of their family never mind find gainful employment. Don't worry about that though, call it a Muslim invasion, lots of people on ATS prefer that it seems as allows them to keep their prejudice and bias in full flow without looking at the bigger picture.

The bigger picture being destruction of their culture and mass rapes of their women?

Because that is all I am seeing from it.

Because of course non Muslim people born in the same country as you would never rape a woman, never rape a man - would they? If you read the first four lines of my post I said 'for a large proportion'. I am not suggesting every migrant is looking for asylum on a genuine basis, or that anyone is an angel, but if you choose to believe that everyone fleeing terror (which by the way for a large part comes from intervention from either America/Canada or countries within the EU) must therefore be a dangerous rapist then good luck with that.

I never said all did I? Nope, that is you trying to use hyperbolic nonsense.

If none of the Muslim's came, not one woman would have been raped by them in Europe.

Yes there are European men who also rape women.

My question is, why would you intentionally add to the problem?

It was known and stated many times that this is what would happen, and it happened.

Be maybe it is time to listen to reason instead of bleeding hearts.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Just google Iraq army. Majority of the "refugees" here come from Iraq.

originally posted by: Phrygian
a reply to: Kantjil

Please explain why not. They survived about 1000 years without.

I explained this in my first post.

They are intentionally trying to destroy our western culture, because they hate it.

Not hard to understand at all if you understand that part first.

Hence everything they stand for is to destroy our very successful cultures.

It doesn't matter anymore if it's a good or a bad thing, when you have a revolving door government that is so deep in the pockets of arms manufacturers it's going to be a thing. The cost of letting them in is miniscule in comparison to the profits from blowing up and reconstructing their countries, so yeah, it'll continue to happen until people get sick enough of it to start aggressively cleaning up politics.