What's the End Game?

One of the topics I am most fascinated in is the study of spirituality and the continuation of consciousness beyond death. I have read a lot of theories and notions, developed my own beliefs, and tried to critically analyze the issues beyond what is normally discussed.

This brings me to the purpose of this post. What is the "end game"?

In any scenario you believe, be it heaven, reincarnation, or otherwise, what will ultimately happen through "eternity"?

Eternity is a long time. Let's start with any belief in souls or spirits or something beyond physical existence. Note that any reference to "God" is intended as a reference to whatever higher power you may believe in.

The universe is believed to be billions of years old, while the average life span of a human is less than 100 (we can consider that as a spiritual turnover rate for those believing in reincarnation or other afterlife phenomenon). Was the beginning of the universe the beginning of everything (including God or a higher power)? Have souls existed since the beginning of the universe or were they created subsequently? If God created souls, what stops God from eliminating souls? If a soul is eliminated (dies), what then happens to any consciousness attached to the soul?

No matter what afterlife presents, we know (or there is a general belief) that the universe will continue for billions of years. In terms of our solar system, eventually, the Sun will destroy the Earth and burn out. In terms of our galaxy, another galaxy is on a crash course with our galaxy that will eventually cause the destruction of both galaxies and the formation of something new. What then from a reincarnation perspective? If you argue that reincarnation is interplanetary, what happens once all of the stars burn out? When all of the planets cease? When the universe dies (if that is to in fact occur)?

If you are more religious and believe in heaven and hell and eternity in one, do you suggest that you will as a spirit spend FOREVER in this alternative realm? Trillions of years and more doing what? Is every newly born person for all of time a new spirit that then ascends to this realm? That's a lot of spirits in the span of eternity.

So, what's the end game? People often contemplate the meaning of life, but rather, I wonder what is the meaning of death and eternal existence?'

This all may serve as an argument against the existence of an afterlife, but I would ask the person taking that position to ask themselves why such a viewpoint is not as complicated as one supporting the existence of an afterlife. Where did it all come from? Where did the universe (not necessarily the stars, the planets, etc., but the fabric of the universe that serves as the backdrop for those things) come from? The law of the conservation of energy argues that energy cannot be created or destroyed but only transferred. Where did the totality of energy initially come from?

I don't buy into near-death experiences because of the power of our brain and the release of '___' associated with death. I have had the most realistic and vivid dreams. Our brains are unbelievably powerful. There is a part of our brain that stores memories. If I poke that part of your brain, you may forget everything you know. How do you then remember something that occurred separated from the repository of your memories?

Similar positions can be taken to refute the afterlife. How do you see without eyes, hear without ear drums, speak without a voice box, move without neurons firing in your brain?

I feel when people discuss life and death they do so short-sighted within the present realm of existence. When we move the clock in numbers that are beyond our comprehension (millions and billions and trillions of years) how do these theories operate?

Anyway, these are just some of the things I find myself thinking about a lot.

Thanks for reading.

Ive come to really like the idea of reincarnation, because in that sense every unique soul is experiencing every generation of humanity, from one standpoint or another.

Though, it's hard to align that with the immense population explosion over the past 2000 years, unless humans have been around 100,000+ years as some of the CTs claim.

Another idea I like is that you are born as a unique individual on some other planet in some other Galaxy in this immense universe of ours.

Can't say I care too much what happens, only that it can't be worse than this materialistic hellhole we currently exist in.

History of Us

To understand where we're going, perhaps we should take a look at where we've been?

Grab the popcorn....

originally posted by: Esoterotica
Ive come to really like the idea of reincarnation, because in that sense every unique soul is experiencing every generation of humanity, from one standpoint or another.

Though, it's hard to align that with the immense population explosion over the past 2000 years, unless humans have been around 100,000+ years as some of the CTs claim.

Another idea I like is that you are born as a unique individual on some other planet in some other Galaxy in this immense universe of ours.

Can't say I care too much what happens, only that it can't be worse than this materialistic hellhole we currently exist in.

I definitely understand the interplanetary argument. You are not necessarily only a soul bound to Earth. It would help with the numbers issues, but even then it gets logistically complicated. Unless there is a queue for reincarnation. I saw a map one time that showed deaths and births in time (per the areas averages, so not live per se). It is mind-boggling how many people are dying and being born every second. It sounds simplistic, but it is realities like that I try and incorporate in my thinking and analysis.

World Births and Deaths. This isn't the one I remember, but it is still fascinating to see it visualized.

Thanks for the reply.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

You could also contend that humans are reborn as non humans. All animals seem to have unique souls & personalities in my experience. What if every insect is the same way? The sheer amount of potential unique individual life is mind boggling.

I accept the nothingness void as a viable option as well. Still better than this reality imo.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

God is everlasting.

The soul is your consciousness - it is your psyche which is made up of all of the concepts you have about the spirit(s). Like the blue and black dress: before you conceived of it being blue and black, all you saw was white and gold. It takes conception to create awareness, as your awareness is your conception of the spirit -- it is your spiritual awareness -- your spiritual conception.

Combine what you think of as forces, or fields, with that of will, and that is what a spirit is. It is will.

Physicality, or our bodies, are what we have measured of our will. Your image/body is literally the image of your forefathers conception of their spirit. It is the image of our desires, as we have measured them - the image of our measurements of our will - exactly like how these words are the image of my awareness of my desire to tell you about reality. The image of my conception of my spirit.


The end game is easy to see: God is making children for himself. He is/has/will make spiritual conception, as he is life and that is what life does: it spiritually conceives good / it is good spiritual conception.

Bad spiritual conception dies/loses awareness/sleeps -- only good spiritual conception is reproduced.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

You could also contend that humans are reborn as non humans. All animals seem to have unique souls & personalities in my experience. What if every insect is the same way? The sheer amount of potential unique individual life is mind boggling.

I accept the nothingness void as a viable option as well. Still better than this reality imo.

That's something I have considered. A number of species have gone extinct too, so there is arguably an equilibrium in some sense. We won't know until we know, if ever, but I still find it fascinating to think about.

From a Christian perspective God created humanity for relationship, sin broke that relationship

God has worked to restore that relationship through Christ so we can in the future have that relationship again

Nothing very tricky about it at all.

What that future relationship entails is anyone's guess

WE are promised death will die

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

God is everlasting.

The soul is your consciousness - it is your psyche which is made up of all of the concepts you have about the spirit(s). Like the blue and black dress: before you conceived of it being blue and black, all you saw was white and gold. It takes conception to create awareness, as your awareness is your conception of the spirit -- it is your spiritual awareness -- your spiritual conception.

Combine what you think of as forces, or fields, with that of will, and that is what a spirit is. It is will.

Physicality, or our bodies, are what we have measured of our will. Your image/body is literally the image of your forefathers conception of their spirit. It is the image of our desires, as we have measured them - the image of our measurements of our will - exactly like how these words are the image of my awareness of my desire to tell you about reality. The image of my conception of my spirit.


The end game is easy to see: God is making children for himself. He is/has/will make spiritual conception, as he is life and that is what life does: it spiritually conceives good / it is good spiritual conception.

Bad spiritual conception dies/loses awareness/sleeps -- only good spiritual conception is reproduced.

I appreciate your input, but although this may shed light on the nature of the soul, it leaves me with a lot of questions about the end game as it applies to eternity.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
From a Christian perspective God created humanity for relationship, sin broke that relationship

God has worked to restore that relationship through Christ so we can in the future have that relationship again

Nothing very tricky about it at all.

What that future relationship entails is anyone's guess

The future is definitely my focus. How do your theories play out when you really break down the essence of "eternity"?

a reply to: TzarChasm

I take your position is 'once and done"?

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Just like you are giving me your body/image/words so that I can take them into me and conceive/have awareness of your spirit, that is what we will do for eternity.

We will eat with each other.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

I desperately hope there isn't eating in the afterlife. I was really looking forward to never taking another poop.

a reply to: Esoterotica

How else would you reproduce awareness?

Don't you want to be consumed so that you can reproduce good awareness in others? What is sex? What is speaking? What is body language/the body if not for the exhale of desire? You don't want give yourself away? Really? You don't want to exhale?

I think that is exactly what life does...

breathe in, breathe out.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

End Game is Solitaire.

We all face it alone, best to keep ones cards together for the final play.

After that, I've always fancied reincarnation....no proof, just a feeling....with a Universe so vast and the amazing wonder of human consciousness, it only makes sense that there's someplace for everyone after this. Whether it's more of Life's Lessons here on Earth (or elsewhere), or a glorious next level place of rest and relaxation in a custom designed afterlife.

I can't conceive of all this being for naught.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

They are not my theories.

I dont understand eternity or time, as I understand time was created as was life and death

What I do understand is the promise of a time and place where greed, hate and death will die and be replaced by love, relationship and rest

The rest, I dont have a clue, just holding on to faith

Its all a bit of a misery, oops I mean mystery for now

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

This brings me to the purpose of this post. What is the "end game"?

There is no "end game" when contemplating eternity. There is only present time.

Psalms 37:29

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it

Hey,
I read a lot of interlinear hebrew and want to say a few things about some of the points made in the original post.

1) The hebrew word for "forever" is translated with "Aeon" in the interlinear translations.
This means all the forever-stuff in the old testament really means Aeon and I firmly believe that "forever" is a mistranslation. I know this because I`m a prophet myself and lots of things don't make sense anymore if Aeon = forever

2) God says in Isaiah 57:16 he is not wroth to permanence. (Note: Here the actual word is not forever/Aeon but actual permanence). He also states he will not allow a breath he created to be so hard punished that he is drooping before him.
This means a permanent hell cannot exist.

3) God says somewhere in Isaiah that he is first and he is last. This means universe is not the beginning of God, universe exists because God wanted to create it.
In Proverbs, Wisdom (pictured as an actual being) states she was there preceding God's contrivances. It sounds very much like universe is God's contrivance and Wisdom is "older" (or whatever word one wants to use for "before time existed") than universe, so God likely isn't even the only thing "older" than universe.

4) The law of energy preservation is, like probably anything in physics, an observation which is called a law.
Also, God created this law and can break it, it really isn't a factor for him when he wants to create a universe.

4) If you are interested in interesting views on how the entire soul-thing and eternity-thing is supposed to work, you might want to check out the "Book of Enoch". I`m not confident whether it's authentic though.