Woman says she was feet away when shots killed Oregon occupier Finicum.

a reply to: Boadicea

And I thought I swear to god my god, just walking with his hands in the air...

Was he standing His hands were still up after he was dead.

and we know 100% for certain this is BS
is that what you saw in the video?

or do you believe he was checking a wound that this witness does not ever mention?
or are you in the "that dern ef be eye doctored the dern video" camp?

or will you just admit these women are not reliable as witnesses and have given statements that not only contradict their own words as well as every single other piece of evidence available?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: beyondtruth

Speaking of other gadgets, would the flashbangs or any of those other gadgets sound like gunfire from inside the vehicle? Would a flashbang, for example, make one large "boom," or several "booms," or how would that sound from within the vehicle? Ms. Sharp also mentioned the gas canisters, as Bretzing did; would those be distinguishable from within the vehicle? And were they actually shot inside the vehicle or just right outside? If you know, of course.

I made these conclusions based only on what video evidence presented to me.

Flash bangs are typically used for enclosed environments as this maximizes the concussive effects. In this type of environment, there would still be some effect but I'm not really sure how effective or for how long. The sound could potentially sound like gunfire from inside the vehicle and to the untrained ear, one flash bang could literally sound like a dozen different explosions because of the echoing nature of the environment they were in.

As far as what would have been distinguishable from one thing to the next it is difficult to say because I cannot assess the witnesses level of understanding and knowledge of these devices.

What variables, if any, would change your mind if confirmed or disproven? For example, if the vehicle is actually completely shot up, would you reconsider? If/when the autopsy report is released, what would you look for to confirm or disprove your conclusions? (I ask because, for me, if the vehicle is released, and it's not all shot up, then I have to question Ms. Sharp's other perceptions).

I feel that here is no particular thing to be looking for as I try to let the evidence lead me to that answer rather than trying to make conclusions and then look for evidence. I understand your question and the best thing I can say is that if the physical evidence begins to conflict itself, then my idea is that it could be a result of evidence tampering or negligence.

And, the $64,000 question, do you think there is video with sound taken from ground level? Double points: If so, why was it not released instead of this video?

I would venture to say that there is at least one other video/audio account from ground level, most likely a dash cam, and as for why it has not been released I would say that the only reason that we have the video we have now is because of the potential for all out bedlam and rioting based on some of the early theories coming out about what happened.

Thank you for your questions, I hope I was able to answer them.

a reply to: xuenchen

we need audio to confirm when exactly those shots were fired.. that would be Huge

a reply to: beyondtruth

Had he not run, then not gotten out of the car and then reached for something he would be alive. Dare I say, had he never been apart of this failed protest he'd still be alive.

Moving on.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: beyondtruth

Had he not run, then not gotten out of the car and then reached for something he would be alive. Dare I say, had he never been apart of this failed protest he'd still be alive.

Moving on.

Stunning revelation sir, thank you for your contribution.

a reply to: schuyler

Her story changes more than I change my underwear.

a reply to: beyondtruth

Not a revelation, just facts.

a reply to: FamCore

if we had audio synced to the video and in it you could clearly hear the shots fired after he reaches into his jacket most of these nut bars would simply claim that it was faked

jesus could descend from heaven and reanimate lavoys ignorant wrinkled ass and hear it from the man himself and they still wouldnt believe it
what they want to believe is far more entertaining and feeds into their delusions and flights of fancy

there is no amount of evidence in the world that will convince them because there will always be another more asinine way to "explain" how its illegitimate

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: charlyv

"Hands up, keep them up " obviously being shouted out by all of those officers

Based on this comment, I have clearly missed the audio being released of the event, if so can you please post a link for me?

Or is this a presumption you have made based on standard LEO training protocols and tactics?

exactly what I've been saying. And YET, so many people here are claiming "God would strike you with lightening for stating that and yet you still wouldn't believe that LaVoy was trying to attack the cops"

this is BS

a reply to: fartlordsupreme

Do you take in the "official story" like you do your daily vitamins? If so, it's working.

Wake up dude, the government's "statement" is rarely the true

a reply to: FamCore

yeah cmon wake up guys
the "the official story" is rarely true so we should throw logic, common sense, and our own observations right out the window when they confirm that story because clearly weve gone insane

a reply to: fartlordsupreme

and my comments were defunct of logic, common sense, and "our own observations" based on what we've been told? Agree to disagree.

originally posted by: charlyv
I cannot understand how anything she says has bearing on what obviously happened.

"Hands up, keep them up " obviously being shouted out by all of those officers, and then he puts them down and fumbles in a pocket.

I do not think there is a trooper in the country that would not have fired on him.

Please provide audio for what was being shouted at him. One link of actual audio will suffice to back up your claim.

I have witnessed a lot of police videos in which multiple officers are involved and in every case they are all screaming at the perp, all screaming different commands at the same time. Victoria's recounting of the incident and Shawna's account match in that both say all the authorities were yelling at them at once to the point that they couldn't understand what was being demanded.
Therefore, if one was yelling, "Keep your hands up. Put them behind your head." while another was yelling, "Open your jacket." see, we don't know what they were yelling or if they were yelling now do we without the audio?

How many of those police videos that you watched had them shouting for someone to open their coat or any command that could have that person potentially reaching for a weapon. I can tell you that goes against police training. You wouldn't want to tell someone to do something that could be construed as reaching for a weapon .


That said, it's not out of the realm of possibility but I highly doubt it.

originally posted by: diggindirt

originally posted by: charlyv
I cannot understand how anything she says has bearing on what obviously happened.

"Hands up, keep them up " obviously being shouted out by all of those officers, and then he puts them down and fumbles in a pocket.

I do not think there is a trooper in the country that would not have fired on him.

Please provide audio for what was being shouted at him. One link of actual audio will suffice to back up your claim.

I have witnessed a lot of police videos in which multiple officers are involved and in every case they are all screaming at the perp, all screaming different commands at the same time. Victoria's recounting of the incident and Shawna's account match in that both say all the authorities were yelling at them at once to the point that they couldn't understand what was being demanded.
Therefore, if one was yelling, "Keep your hands up. Put them behind your head." while another was yelling, "Open your jacket." see, we don't know what they were yelling or if they were yelling now do we without the audio?

a reply to: fartlordsupreme
Are you old enough or have you investigated the Ruby Ridge murder? Remember---a woman shot in the head while holding a child and a young man shot in the back after the FBEyes shot his dog? There weren't any felony arrest warrants out on that woman or child.
Did they tell the truth about that one?
Did they tell the truth about Waco?
Did they tell the truth about any incident which has been closely investigated?
Have they been revealed as liars and frauds in the past? www.washingtonpost.com... 4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
It is telling to me that the newspaper refers to the reports as "flawed" rather than fraudulent. If citizens submitted this sort of "flawed" documentation it would be fraud but because it's federal agents, well, hey, that's okay, just a flaw.
Just as they ambushed Randy Weaver with the intent of killing him and/or his family, they ambushed that vehicle with the intent of killing the three men. Their plans took a skid when their Facebook Boy couldn't arrange the seating in the vehicles so that the women were with him rather than in the truck with Levoy.
I judge behavior by past actions. I've seen too many "official" lies in my lifetime to ever believe their story. The mere fact that not one shot was fired nor one gun pulled except by LEOs is the telling fact in this matter.

a reply to: beyondtruth
Well, I remember seeing one of a man who didn't have a shirt on, had his hands up and he was still shot. There's a thread right here on ATS about it I'm sure. I've seen dozens where there are conflicting commands being yelled or so many of them were screeching that it is impossible to know what they are saying.
I'm still waiting to see if the folks at the refuge can produce Levoy's Colt and rifle since they are asserting that none of these men were armed. FBEyes say they found weapons in the truck but did not make clear where the weapons were located in the truck, whether in the cab or in the back.
As far as the actual video, I don't have the eagle eyes that some people apparently have. That video is so grainy and jumpy that I honestly don't see how anyone could make any determinations except that the fool who came out of the woods fired directly toward law enforcement when he fired at Levoy and the yahoo that came up behind the unsecured truck apparently wasn't afraid of being shot from the truck until after Levoy was dead.

Victoria Sharp:
Transcript

Get the women out of the car!” ( unintelligible) and Ryan Payne, like he was in the front seat. Ryan Payne is amazing. He’s incredible. But anyhow,

If the FBI has nothing to hide, then why not release any and all of the video they have?
I think the point where people say he is reaching for a gun is a natural response /movement of being shot.
So many times people are charged with resisting while they are being beaten, tazed or shot, well I ask do you know anyone who would lay down and not move in any of these instances?
And people also say why would the FBI have a stolen gun? .....just for things like this.

a reply to: beyondtruth

Leave this topic to Professionals...

Let me say one final thing before the professionals weigh in.....
I cant bring myself to trust the organisation that created and provided the FIRST WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB
TO THE TERRORISTS THAT BLEW THE BUILDING BACK IN THE 90S....(FBI did that)
Or that so proudly murdered the children of Waco....that harboured some of the 9-11 attackers....
These people have a long history of subterfuge and illegal influence in the dirty underbelly of American politics....