Obama Town Hall: Obama Rips Gun Control Fiction

a reply to: SM2

and infringe in this case is attached to keep and bear arms. People can buy guns... The government can say to manufacturers no, you cant sell this type of weapon because of this or that. You are still allowed to buy a different gun.

The violation occurs when the government puts a system in place that prevents a person from getting a gun - any gun - at all (no ability to own one). If we look at scotus rulings from 2008 (DC vs. Heller) and 2010 (McDonald vs. City of Chicago), where scotus ruled the 2nd amendment applies to the individual (as well as the states by the 14th amendment), and look at the parts of the law scotus said was unconstitutional -

Chicago - ordinance banning the possession of handguns as well as other gun regulations affecting rifles and shotguns.

District of Columbia - The Supreme Court struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the Regulations Act was an unconstitutional ban, and struck down the portion of the Regulations Act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock." Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975.

Clarifying what infringement means with regards to the 2nd amendment.
Clarifying what an "arms" is as well.

Just like High crimes and Misdemeanors in the Constitution - What constitutes a high crime and misdemeanor? Congress is solely responsible for defining those 2 terms for impeachment and is not based on current laws.

The rulings clarified that the 2nd amendment is applied to the states as well as federal enclaves. You guys are aware the US Constitution originally only applied to federal officials right? It took the 14th amendment as a base to apply parts of the Constitution to the states. Even today not all amendments have been applied to the states, namely the 7th amendment and not all amendments apply to the individual, namely the 4th amendment.

So if we were to use the logic of some, going with a plain text reading of the Constitution, the 2nd amendment would have only applied to the federal government and not the states / individuals of those states (actually the federal constitution would not apply to the states since they are separate sovereigns and have their own Constitutions). Considering the Constitution references / sets limits for only the federal government and anything not reserved to the feds, or prohibited to the states, is a state issue.

So before we go down the road of language and the courts maybe some people should learn the history before complaining about Supreme Court rulings because with out their ruling we would not be able to purchase / own / bear arms as state citizens if states had prohibited them. Further there would have been no avenue of recourse at the state level either.

i was hoping for a link to the entire town hall op

its sad to see that most people won't even discuss with the opposite party.

full show

a reply to: vjr1113

Guns - 30,000 gun deaths in the US each year.
Smoking - 480,000 deaths in the US each year
Drink Drive - 2012-2013 10,000 deaths and over a million people charged for dwi/dui.
Hammers / Clubs - kill more people each year than rifles.

The discussion at the national level is important however when groups ignore / skew facts in order to push one agenda over the other clouds those discussions, resulting in absolutely nothing to fix the problems.

When Obama starts to listen to the people maybe I will care what he has to say. Until then he should shut up.

a reply to: Xcathdra

well sir or mam, that's exactly what we did in this town meeting, so maybe put your irrational hate aside and watch the town hall.

if we can make gun ownership safer we should. no one is saying you can't own a gun, no one is making it more difficult for you to own a gun. its basic safety and regulation.

a reply to: vjr1113

and yet obama and democrats are looking for, and have already passed, laws that dont work. They are stuck in their own little world where they think passing laws that restrict a citizens right to self defense / defense of others will somehow magically prevent criminals from engaging in an illegal action.

It would be like telling everyone they have to have interlock devices in their cars because persistent / chronic offenders keep drinking and driving.

What good is a law that tells law abiding citizens they cant bring a gun into a theater ? Sporting event?

Thus far the push by the left is using the failed increase the laws while holding on to the asinine fallacy that the police are the first line of defense and will handle the incidents. Its been my experience that I am dispatched to crime scenes after the crime already occurred.

The citizens in the theater will be the first people there should someone bring a gun and start killing people.

Education - with guns / the law as well as school education - is the silver bullet. Not passing laws that continue to have no impact except when it comes to the number of dead civilians who were prohibited from being able to defend themselves. I take exception to people trying to continually restrict gun rights while they are surrounded by some of the best trained armed guards and thats before he leaves the White House.

Its easy to push gun control when the legislation wont affect those pushing it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

and yet obama and democrats are looking for, and have already passed, laws that dont work.

Do you know how a bill becomes law?
Who has the majority in the House? Who has the majority in the Senate?

a reply to: Phage

Do you know how a bill is vetoed?
Does the house / senate have the votes to override?
Filibuster?

I know how our government works thank you.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Do you know how a bill is vetoed?

Yes. The President says "no" after a bill has passed Congress.

What gun bills have the Republicans allowed out of committee? What gun bills have been brought to the floor? What gun bills have made it to the President's desk for veto (or not)?

What gun bills have been filibustered?

a reply to: Xcathdra

gun violence will never go away completely as long as guns are available.

gun violence has gone down in the US during the Obama administration, this is a fact.

the left isn't offering a complete solution to end gun violence, so stop making that point its a strawman.

name one law obama has proposed that would make it harder for you to purchase a gun. is this fact based or paranoia?

a reply to: vjr1113

gun violence has gone down in the US during the Obama administration, this is a fact.

Is it?
By what matrix?

a reply to: Phage

here you go

notice how homicide has gone down but suicide by firearm has gone up.

if we can give someone a psych test, we could stop the depressed or the crazy from ordering a gun online or simply buying one at the corner gun store.


these are the kinds of ideas the right simply doesn't want to debate.

a reply to: vjr1113

notice how homicide has gone down but suicide by firearm has gone down.

Yes.
But was Obama president in 1999? I don't see much change since then, according to your source.

a reply to: Phage

you're right not much change. im sure you know most gun control laws are written and passed by congress. so change has happened, just very slowly as it does because of congress.

so who in congress is for more gun control? the right or the left?

a reply to: vjr1113
To what do you attribute that dramatic decline ca. 1990-1999?

a reply to: Phage

id have to say gun control

a reply to: vjr1113
Ok. Why?
What legislation?

(I can be a real PIA, huh?)

a reply to: Phage

its fine i should know this. it makes sense more gun regulation and not less would reduce gun violence right?

now i have to scramble thru congress archives when its logical that less guns on the street equals less gun violence.

a reply to: vjr1113
It worked! Awesome!
en.wikipedia.org...

You are a critical thinker.

wrong post sorry

a reply to: Xcathdra
No. That's not where I'm going.

All I did was ask questions (of two sides of the argument). Have you looked for answers, or not?