The Starchild Skull

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
There is absolutely no reason to suspect there is anything wrong with the results.

Very true, and the results show it is human! But some people are trying to push the agenda it is somehow alien!

I seem to remember requesting, rather specifically, that you show how the current data shows "Human"; you haven't as yet, although, I have shown, rather simply I might add, that the opposite is true...that "Mother" wasn't Human at all.

Until you can do that; you are misrepresenting the data and truth...

a reply to: tanka418

If only every mind here on ATS could be so inquiring...

originally posted by: tanka418
I seem to remember requesting, rather specifically, that you show how the current data shows "Human"

Already done, but you refuse to accept reality, preferring your silly "alien" theory!

DNA testing in 1999 at BOLD (Bureau of Legal Dentistry), a forensic DNA lab in Vancouver, British Columbia found standard X and Y chromosomes in two samples taken from the skull. Novella considers this "conclusive evidence" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human in order for each to have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
I seem to remember requesting, rather specifically, that you show how the current data shows "Human"

Already done, but you refuse to accept reality, preferring your silly "alien" theory!

DNA testing in 1999 at BOLD (Bureau of Legal Dentistry), a forensic DNA lab in Vancouver, British Columbia found standard X and Y chromosomes in two samples taken from the skull. Novella considers this "conclusive evidence" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human in order for each to have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes

Well, aside from this being obsolete and superseded data, there is absolutely nothing unusual about the X and Y chromosomes...virtually ALL animals have either, or both.

An arrangement I kind of like...that way I can have both a male and a female Wolf...

You are misinterpreting the data! Although I suppose the absence of any "gender" markers would certainly be "alien". However, the presence, or absence of such markers does not and cannot determine whether anything is "Human" or not.

So, if that's all you got; I suggest you find someplace to learn a bit more about biology and DNA...you seem to be lacking.

(obsolete || superseded) < valid;

originally posted by: tanka418
You are misinterpreting the data!

Wrong again, thaa is you and your refusal to accept reality that it is human!

You cannot argue against the facts

that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human

No matter how the facts destroys your silly conspiracy theory!

originally posted by: hellobruce
You cannot argue against the facts
" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human "

No matter how the facts destroys your silly conspiracy theory!

I see; then kindly explain the 800 - 1600+ differences extant in the mtDNA, when there should be no more than 120 or so.

You are using old data, and then only that part that agrees with what YOU want. The reality is that the creature was never Human, not even in part. Again, you must use current relevant and complete data (or as complete as is provided)

Sorry man, no conspiracy theory here; just hard science and fact. And, it is a fact that mtDNA has only 120 or so differences across 7 billion people, and the Starchild has 800 - 1600+ differences...it quite simply isn't possible for the starchild to be Human.

The statement above; " that the child was both male and human..." is/was incorrect, and from all appearance, deliberate, as the good Doctor should have known better. Should have known/remembered that all animals have X and perhaps Y chromosomes...that is not unique to Humans. Thus what your "good Doctor" has said about this case is a lie, a bit of known disinformation. You really should check it out for yourself...try just about any high school level biology text.

I'm sorry man, but you have not presented any "fact" at all in any of this, just the parroting of the opinion of some Doctor who is obviously passing out disinformation.

originally posted by: tanka418
The statement above; " that the child was both male and human..." is/was incorrect,

No it is not, you are suffering cognitive dissonance, as you desperately want to believe it is alien, when the facts show it is human!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
The statement above; " that the child was both male and human..." is/was incorrect,

No it is not, you are suffering cognitive dissonance, as you desperately want to believe it is alien, when the facts show it is human!

Okay, again; show me the "facts"! You have yet to do that...as in "you keep talking about these "facts", but, cannot produce them"...it is past time for you to "put up or shut up".

By the way; in a rather short post above; I have proven that "Mother" was not Human!

All I have seen from you is the parroting of some disinformation from someone who knows better.

originally posted by: tanka418
Okay, again; show me the "facts"! You have yet to do that

Here they are again, funny how you refuse to accept the facts!

" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human "

as in "you keep talking about these "facts", but, cannot produce them"...it is past time for you to "put up or shut up".

The facts have been posted here several times, but you refuse to accept reality!

" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human "

originally posted by: hellobruce
Here they are again, funny how you refuse to accept the facts!
" that the child was both male and human, and that both of his parents must have been human "

Okay...that is not a fact, it is the opinion of a very questionable source...in fact; here...

Think of this as an article of impeachment of your source.

Now...IF you actually have anything real...

Ya know I'm kind of wondering something; IF you actually "see" what's going on here. You continue to argue that the opinion of some random "doctor" drawing an incorrect conclusion, based on misinformation is absolutely correct. While I based my conclusion on the actual data itself and the mathematics of the differences between the "Mother's" DNA and typical Human DNA, and upon the observed differences in that region of DNA. I guess what 'm saying is; Have you noticed that it is actually you who is refusing to accept reality You continue to cling on to a bit of misinformation, while I actually use science to prove my point...I think it is time for y'all to "give up"...y'all lost, son.

originally posted by: tanka418
Think of this as an article of impeachment of your source.

Who was the geneticist, and which lab did that work?

ancientaliensdebunked.com...

Back to the genetics tests, the initial DNA tests proving Starchild to be male are now no longer supported by the Starchild project and are no longer viewable. The reason cited by Pye for rejecting these results (besides the fact that they didnt support his story) was contamination. However: “The first DNA test…has now been set aside by Pye, as it is said to have been the result of contamination, although we are not told how the contamination occurred: if the skull as a whole is contaminated, it means that any DNA results from it will be compromised, whether mtDNA or nuDNA.” So if the first result has been discarded for “contamination”, any result after this could be contaminated as well. Until the issue of contamination has been addressed, detailed and resolved, no data pertaining to the Starchild skull should be accepted as fact.

Also

Dr. Carter also demonstrated that DNA is not even needed to obtain the same results that the Starchild Project did. From there, it doesn’t get any better. The analyses and explorations thereof performed by the Starchild Project demonstrates that they don’t even possess the most basic level of understanding on the topic of genetics. “Their discussion of “shotgun” vs. “primers” is riddled with inaccuracies. In fact, this clearly demonstrates their utter lack of expertise in the field. If they cannot understand the basics of what they are dealing with, we cannot trust them that they are getting the story straight, and we cannot trust their conclusions about ‘Starchild’ genetics.” - See more at: ancientaliensdebunked.com...

he earliest Starchild genetics tests produced results that proved it to be a human male, apparently not satisfied, Pye and the Starchild project then went on to have more genetic tests done, only to misrepresent the findings. The “Fate” article mentioned earlier portrayed Pye as a struggling novelist (like all of us writers). When the Starchild skull fell into his lap, Pye probably saw a good opportunity to make money and treated it like a sideshow attraction. If it was an authentic alien artifact, such a path defies logic. “Lloyd Pye is not a scientist who is about to bring astounding revelations about alien contact with humans to public attention: he is a writer who already believed this before being given the skull and his promotion of it is nothing short of disgusting.” When a struggling fiction writer plagiarizes (or at least heavily borrows) someone else’s theory to sell a book, and then that writer happens upon an artifact of this significance and treats it like P.T. Barnum instead of undergoing real scientific inquiry, one has to wonder how authentic it truly is. - See more at: ancientaliensdebunked.com...

So all the evidence shows it is human, but some hoaxers tried to make money out of it.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
Think of this as an article of impeachment of your source.

Who was the geneticist, and which lab did that work?

Oh...no geneticist, no lab...just simple mathematics...and yes; I'm a mathematician, among other things...

I like that first "hack job". It really shows an in depth understanding of the results presented...NOT! Especially the differences in the mtDNA...but, I suppose they really couldn't go into that n any depth...it would illustrate how wrong the author is.

Sorry, that wasn't even a "fair" attempt...seriously man, your only hope right now is to show how those 800 - 1600+ differences don't exist...or are somehow "normal"...

originally posted by: tanka418
Oh...no geneticist, no labs

So those claims by Pye were just made up!

So you have nothing but your desire for it to be alien!

originally posted by: tanka418
Oh...no geneticist, no lab...just simple mathematics

That's basically saying...
"I know the Starchild skull is alien!"
"How do you know?"
"Tests were done."
"By whom?"
"No one. Maths proved it."

Mathematics can't prove genetics, just like an eco biologist can't prove astrology. It's 2 completely different areas.

Just because you want to believe something is real doesn't mean it is real

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
Oh...no geneticist, no labs

So those claims by Pye were just made up!

So you have nothing but your desire for it to be alien!

So...you have no idea how data analysis works...shame.

Right now it's kind of like this; YOU are done! You have nothing except opinion and speculation. I have the available data. The data contradicts you and trumps your opinions.

Next time; instead of simply "getting your ducks in a row..." you might try getting some ducks first.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: tanka418
Oh...no geneticist, no lab...just simple mathematics

That's basically saying...
"I know the Starchild skull is alien!"
"How do you know?"
"Tests were done."
"By whom?"
"No one. Maths proved it."

Mathematics can't prove genetics, just like an eco biologist can't prove astrology. It's 2 completely different areas.

Just because you want to believe something is real doesn't mean it is real

Except that everything I've done is based on the data released by Lloyd Pye. You know, the data he obtained by his geneticist.

You truly need to get all your background sorted out before you comment...that way you don't wind up attempting some "weasel" technique to attempt to "cheat" the results to favor your position...truly bad form that.

Oh...and y'all are misusing the word "alien"...but even so; I never said it was "alien"...I said it was not human.

Lloyd Pye claimed it was a human-alien hybrid. By that claim (you said you're going off his data) means you are claiming the same. Yet there is no proof, outside Pyes claims, that show it to be anything other than human, albeit a bit strange, but nonetheless human.

You keep saying you've shown proof. If there's so much proof then show us something to prove its "not human" using anything besides Pyes claims.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Lloyd Pye claimed it was a human-alien hybrid. By that claim (you said you're going off his data) means you are claiming the same. Yet there is no proof, outside Pyes claims, that show it to be anything other than human, albeit a bit strange, but nonetheless human.

You keep saying you've shown proof. If there's so much proof then show us something to prove its "not human" using anything besides Pyes claims.

Well. that is kind of empty now isn't it...you know full well that the only extant data is Pye's, thus this "proof" using other data is not possible.

So, YOU along with me, and the rest of the world will have to get along with what we have. IF you choose the illogical path, that is on you...I'm going with the available data and science.


I have a challenge for you:
Using the available current and relevant data; prove that it is Human!

originally posted by: tanka418
I'm going with the available data and science.

No you are not, as the data shows it is human.

. The analyses and explorations thereof performed by the Starchild Project demonstrates that they don’t even possess the most basic level of understanding on the topic of genetics. “Their discussion of “shotgun” vs. “primers” is riddled with inaccuracies. In fact, this clearly demonstrates their utter lack of expertise in the field. If they cannot understand the basics of what they are dealing with, we cannot trust them that they are getting the story straight, and we cannot trust their conclusions about ‘Starchild’ genetics.”

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tanka418
I'm going with the available data and science.

No you are not, as the data shows it is human.

. The analyses and explorations thereof performed by the Starchild Project demonstrates that they don’t even possess the most basic level of understanding on the topic of genetics. “Their discussion of “shotgun” vs. “primers” is riddled with inaccuracies. In fact, this clearly demonstrates their utter lack of expertise in the field. If they cannot understand the basics of what they are dealing with, we cannot trust them that they are getting the story straight, and we cannot trust their conclusions about ‘Starchild’ genetics.”

I've asked you multiple time to "prove it". You have failed to even try.

So, for you, yet again:
Using the available current and relevant data; prove that it is Human!