Nationalised health care

a reply to: Reallyfolks
The American banks get bailed out for trillions and that is okay, the oil industry gets billions in subsidies from the US and that is okay.

Americans wanting universal health care is NOT okay because too many ignorant Americans feel like they would be footing the bill for someone else?

Give myself and the working class people a break here.

Access to healthcare means workers will be healthier and thus more productive.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Reallyfolks
The American banks get bailed out for trillions and that is okay, the oil industry gets billions in subsidies from the US and that is okay.

Americans wanting universal health care is NOT okay because too many ignorant Americans feel like they would be footing the bill for someone else?

Give myself and the working class people a break here.

Access to healthcare means workers will be healthier and thus more productive.

Yeah, I often wonder why it's not okay to pay for Healthcare and worry about the costs but, starting a war in Iran, bailing out banks, paying billions to Oil companies and Israel is okay.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Reallyfolks
The American banks get bailed out for trillions and that is okay, the oil industry gets billions in subsidies from the US and that is okay.

Americans wanting universal health care is NOT okay because too many ignorant Americans feel like they would be footing the bill for someone else?

Give myself and the working class people a break here.

Access to healthcare means workers will be healthier and thus more productive.

No its not ok for that to be happening. It's also not right to be paying healthcare bills for other people. More specifically people who make piss poor choices in life that lead to bad health. Again maybe willing to help out a kid, not someone who chose to piss away their health. That's my basic problem with most public services. Lumping all people...those not at fault and those who put themselves in bad situations together and then telling us we need to foot the bill for them all.

a reply to: amazing
It is baffling.

I am going to speculate that we could pay for universal healthcare by simply cutting Israel off and using that money to bankroll a national healthcare program.

originally posted by: amazingIn the US we have nationalized Healthcare already, so to speak.

If you're dying, you can go to a hospital, they have to treat you and save you. You have the flu, you can go to the emergency room and eventually they will see you. they have to. Who pays for his care? Federal Government subsidizes/pays hospitals for this care. They Universally do this all over the US, this healthcare.

You are correct to an extent. This is the way it used to work, and to the receiver of care, it may still look a lot like that, from where they are standing, but it is not quite the same. One of the reasons, is the whole thing is not so cut and dry. There are still a lot of glitches in the system. The ACA creates more problems than it solves.

If you have a Nationalized Health Plan, funded solely on US tax dollars, than the individual States, are no longer responsible for their indigents and uninsured. Veterans would not "have" to use the VA healthcare system; which I personally, have watched go from awesome to ridiculously awful.

The government wants things to stay the same; they have to pay off their handlers. They put a nice coat of whitewash over everything, thinking no one will notice. But the rusty nails are bleeding through; the mold has turned everything a funny color, and the rotten boards are collapsing all around.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Reallyfolks
The American banks get bailed out for trillions and that is okay, the oil industry gets billions in subsidies from the US and that is okay.

Americans wanting universal health care is NOT okay because too many ignorant Americans feel like they would be footing the bill for someone else?

Give myself and the working class people a break here.

Access to healthcare means workers will be healthier and thus more productive.

Yeah, I often wonder why it's not okay to pay for Healthcare and worry about the costs but, starting a war in Iran, bailing out banks, paying billions to Oil companies and Israel is okay.

Maybe ask someone who is ok with that????

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: amazing
It is baffling.

I am going to speculate that we could pay for universal healthcare by simply cutting Israel off and using that money to bankroll a national healthcare program.

We give what 3 billion a year. Maybe cut all foreign aid but still need strict rules on who I'd helped. Those in need due to bad circumstances and those in need due to poor choices

a reply to: Reallyfolks

So you have no problem paying for wars, giving Israel money, bailing out the banks, subsiding Big Oil, but you have issues with helping out your fellow Americans with basic healthcare?

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Reallyfolks

So you have no problem paying for wars, giving Israel money, bailibg out the banks, subsiding the Big Oil, but you have issues with helping out your fellow Americans with basic healthcare?

That's the exact opposite of what I said. We won't get far in this post if you attempt to ignore what was posted or makeup what you feel like in a response

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: amazing
It is baffling.

I am going to speculate that we could pay for universal healthcare by simply cutting Israel off and using that money to bankroll a national healthcare program.

Or we could plant trees that dropped gold bars every second Tuesday. Because both are about as likely to happen.

Socialized medicine just won't work in the US.

originally posted by: jrod

It is baffling.

I am going to speculate that we could pay for universal healthcare by simply cutting Israel off and using that money to bankroll a national healthcare program.

Well how much is that?

Not anywhere near enough I suspect.

Why don't you advocate an increase in payroll tax that would pay for Medicare?

Some people think an increase from the current 1.45% to 6% would cover it even if the government bought policies from insurance companies and let them handle the paperwork.

And then Medicaid would disappear and free up more money.

a reply to: avgguy
Apologies for delay replying. Real world intervened. Overall outcomes v cost US lags way behind comparable countries.

www.commonwealthfund.org...

originally posted by: DAVID64
The Idea of a National HealthCare system is wonderful. You get sick, you go to the Dr and get what you need. Simple. The reality of it is a whole different story. Red tape, waiting periods months long fora CT scan, MRI etc, the scams, over charging, "Oh, we cover this but not that.... we don't think you need that".

Errr, I dont know where you get your info from but that is not entirely true.

I live in Australia, have never paid to see a doctor in my life - and I have had NUMEROUS problems over the years. I recently, for example, got something called "Bells Palsy" (in a nutshell half my face was completely paralysed for about 6 weeks) and didn't have to wait at all for both CT scans or MRI's. And all of it was free, didn't have to pay a cent.

There's no scams, no "overcharging", no not covering certain procedures. The only exception to that here is elective surgery.

a reply to: xuenchen

Why don't you advocate an increase in payroll tax that would pay for Medicare? Some people think an increase from the current 1.45% to 6% would cover it even if the government bought policies from insurance companies and let them handle the paperwork. And then Medicaid would disappear and free up more money.

Medicare is not paid for with taxes. People pay into Medicare through their payroll deductions.

However, If we did have a National Health Plan, paid for solely with taxes, there would be no need for Medicare. So Medicare could and should go away.

Just another one of those tiny glitches I spoke of earlier.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Medicare is not paid for with taxes. People pay into Medicare through their payroll deductions.

So "taxes" are not "taxes"



Payroll Tax

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

it really never was like that....
you break your leg, you go to the hospital, they put a splint on it, maybe give you a shot for the pain, and send you home with a referral to a surgeon that might decide they will treat you for just a small down payment of oh, I dont know a few thousand dollars??
ya that sounds more like it....

or you go to the er, and they send you a bill, that you have 30 days to pay before they send it to the annoying bill collectors, but hey, they can refer you to a company that will let you open an interest bearing account that you can charge you bills to!!!

the er will not help in getting follow up care, the er is much more costly than going your own personal doctor and quite frankly that personal doctor is better qualified to treat you because they have a medical history on you!

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Medicare is not paid for with taxes. People pay into Medicare through their payroll deductions.

So "taxes" are not "taxes"

Payroll Tax

I accept my error.

When you spoke of taxes, I took it to mean general taxes, since not all people pay into payroll taxes, though most do pay taxes in other ways, and they would still be covered under a National Health Plan.

So yes, the people pay into Medicare, from the monies removed from their paychecks, in the form of a withholding tax, specifically for this purpose.

It aggravates to see so many have no issue throwing others money at the problem without first tackling the 80% over payment for medical, insurance and pharmaceutical services.

The cost problem should be tackled before one promulgates spending other peoples money via government spending.

In discussion after discussion this issue gets totally ignored.

Were it dealt with (costs) we might not even have to have this discussion as most could afford their own healthcare expenses and it would be a no brainer for indignant coverage.

I honestly don't see a national healthcare system ever happening in the US.

The insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, doctors, hospital shareholders, and stock market gamblers are all riding a mighty nice gravy train.

And they're not about to give that up without a fight... like, oh I don't know, perhaps buying off every politician in office to ensure that it never happens ?


Just a wild stab in the dark.

I don't it's that far fetched to have a Universal HealthCare system. We have the money, that's not really an issue.

We already pay hundreds of millions every year for uninsured and hospital reimbursements and medicaid and medicare and VA benefits. If roll everything up it's billions.

And to top it off, most of that money is wasted. People without Health insurance wait until the last minute to get help and it costs the system thousands of dollars, when early treatment and prevention is so much cheaper. Universal Healthcare would be much cheaper in the long run.

Here's how we do it, just get one Universal healthcare plan, no options no nothing, it's the same for everyone. And even though it's good, it's basic. So therefore there would still be better healthcare/insurance options if you wanted it. It's just like when you have a job and you usually get to pick 1 of 3 or 4 plans from cheapest to most expensive and more inclusive.

We can afford it, it would be easy to do, and it's the right thing to do, morally and financially. It would save us money.