Would you stand up to die?

In the recent shooting the Oregon victims stood up when told to and were executed. I believe that the Charleston SC victims also waited their turn to be shot. This has really bothered me because I have two teenage sons who may be attending college soon and are in high school. I don't want them to stand there and wait to be shot. I want them to fight for their lives. Chris Mercer, one of the victims in Oregon, fought back and was shot 7 times, but he is still alive.

I'm an empathetic person and I feel the fear and pain those people must have experienced in those moments, and I can't say for sure if I would have fought back or just stood there frozen waiting to die. It must have been so horrible. But I do know that schools are not safe anymore and I believe that there should be some kind of training or course students need to have to be better prepared for this situation. Hiding under desks and standing up to die is not the answer.

I am in no way saying that the victims did anything wrong at all. None of really know how we will react when a gun is pointed at us. Chris Mercer was former military and he did what he was trained to do. I think our schools need a new plan to deal with these nutjobs.

I want my sons to fight back if at all possible. It might make a life and death difference. So, what are your thoughts on this? What more can we do to reduce the deaths and stop this madness?

Would like to think that I would stand and fight but having never been in the situation I can't say how I'd react.

I've always felt if someone with a gun ever told me to kneel down or close my eyes I would take it as a cue I'm about to be killed and might as well die fighting.

If people of my own faith, or any faith were being murdered I'd happily eat a bullet and proclaim my Faith...

If you won't die for your core beliefs and principles, you have no beliefs or principles...



Or maybe I'd cry and piss my pants when the barrel is pointed at me...

Still wouldn't deny my Faith though.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

I would fight for my life or die trying.

Having said that, it is possible for unimagined circumstances. Such as being caught totally unaware and being made a captive.

If I was unfortunate enough to be unable to fight back and I was asked to renounce my faith or die, I would die.

I often think of those who have faced this situation at the hands of ISIS and wonder, would I be as faithful as they have been?

It is easy to sit behind my screen here and say yes, I would die for my Faith also.

I don't remember the exact quote from George Patton but I remember the theme.

I don't want my you to die for their beliefs, I want them to make the enemy die for his.

But yeah, I would stand up to protect the innocent.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

It's strange just how many people lose their fear of death when staring it in the face. As you said, you never really know how you will react in a situation until you experience that situation yourself. And even if you were to go through the same scenario multiple times, chances are you'll react differently on each occasion.

I don't fear death, but neither do I like the idea of dying too soon. However, I hope that, in those circumstances, I would have the courage to fight back.

As for what could be done to prevent similar shootings... well, sadly there will always be mentally unstable individuals. The most we can do is reduce. Total prevention would prove extremely difficult.

I personally ensure that my children always stand up for themselves. My 8 year old son was being bullied at school. Came home crying every day. I got fed up when the school said they couldn't do anything about it. So i taught my son how to stick up for himself and how to throw a heck of a right hook to someone's nose.
Now im sure others might say, your just adding to the problem. An if they said it to my face i would laugh at them.
My son doesn't go around picking fights. He's one of the best and smartest kids in his class - his teachers say so.
He's always respectful. But i told him to not to give someone respect when they dont give it.
That bully took one in the nose. My son and him both got suspended for 2 days.
And i wasnt even mad... at him any way. Fuming that the school let it come to that after being called numerous times from different parents regarding that bully.

We are constantly telling people that its not right to do this and do that.
Unfortunately most people are scared to stick up for themselves.
The trick is over coming that fear, but still being humble and respectful.
Once people learn those skills, things would be a lot different.

Myself, if i was in that situation and i had the gun man popping people after stating their creed. I would have gone after him. Figuring im going to die if i just stand here. Might as well give these people a chance

I've had guns pointed at me, and there is no doubt I'd go into fight mode. No victim here. No deer in the headlights. No walking peacefully to my executioner's perch.

There are three types in life. Lions, lambs, and DIRT.

What's on your menu?

If I saw an opportunity to charge a shooter...I would take it, to save others.

If I had a gun to my head and was told "renounce your faith or die"...I would not.

If the gun was to my child's head and I was told to renounce my faith to save their life...I would.

I don't think anyone knows until faced with that situation. I'd like to think I wouldn't falter.

The problem these days is that our upbringing trains us to be herd followers, to go with the flow. So it's hard to break that conditioning. A gunman makes an imposing authority figure to try to defy, and that's what you're up against. It works best if you can get just one or two others to break free with you.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
If people of my own faith, or any faith were being murdered I'd happily eat a bullet and proclaim my Faith...

If you won't die for your core beliefs and principles, you have no beliefs or principles...



Or maybe I'd cry and piss my pants when the barrel is pointed at me...

Still wouldn't deny my Faith though.

Bravery would not exist if people weren't scared right?

Star for "cry and piss my pants" though! Until we are in that position, it's all a video game in our head right?

a reply to: seeker1963

Agreed.
I like to think of myself as pretty fearless...

But these hypotheticals bring out the pseudo Rambo in the best of us.

I know what I'd like to do in such a situation.
I can't say for certain what I would do.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

This has really bothered me because I have two teenage sons who may be attending college soon and are in high school. I don't want them to stand there and wait to be shot. I want them to fight for their lives.

Some people are born fighters and they respond actively to aggression or sudden occurrences. Most people naturally cower or freeze under loudness and physical aggression in close quarters.

One way of overcoming this is to enrol your boys on a course that exposes them to loud noise and aggression. Something like military cadets or a martial art will include more powerful people shouting at them and imposing physical intimidation. They get used to it and their flight or fight system becomes biased towards *fight.*

To put it in perspective, more students die from suicide and accidents than have ever been shot in schools, colleges or universities.

It helps that we all know what we intend to do. No one has to second guess that.

Probably none of us here hasn't thought about how we might handle ourselves in that kind of scenario. The question is would we follow through if fiction become fact.

As I said, hopefully, intention becomes action. I'd at least try for a distraction first because I know I wouldnt' be able to count on anyone coming with me. People are so cowed these days. Although in the heartland, they are maybe a bit less so.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: EchoesInTime

This has really bothered me because I have two teenage sons who may be attending college soon and are in high school. I don't want them to stand there and wait to be shot. I want them to fight for their lives.

Some people are born fighters and they respond actively to aggression or sudden occurrences. Most people naturally cower or freeze under loudness and physical aggression in close quarters.

One way of overcoming this is to enrol your boys on a course that exposes them to loud noise and aggression. Something like military cadets or a martial art will include more powerful people shouting at them and imposing physical intimidation. They get used to it and their flight or fight system becomes biased towards *fight.*

To put it in perspective, more students die from suicide and accidents than have ever been shot in schools, colleges or universities.

Not to mention with all of this, we have been conditioned to be helpless.

Remember "Duck and Cover" during the cold war? Yea, I still remember those senseless drills in grade school.

But we have been conditioned to feel safe because, well it's our right to be safe? But in the real world, that thought process just doesn't cut it.

We are conditioned to be outraged over violence, while being taught to embrace our primal instinct to survive is unacceptable. NOT GOOD!

a reply to: EchoesInTime

I had this conversation with my fiance the night after the shooting happened. At first, I thought that yes, I would. Because I refuse to deny Jesus. But then he brought up something interesting: who is this guy to ask such a question? Which got me thinking about what I've read in the Bible. And I remember this one part that said in the last days the wise will keep their silence.

I know I want to live--and I wouldn't make for a very good martyr. And God knows this of course. So, I think I'd ideally want to stay silent and just get shot in the leg.

But, God bless me I will never be in this type of situation. If I am, I would do whatever felt right.

And this might include killing the gunman with whatever I had on-hand. I am a petite girl--and not very strong. But I would go for his eyes and gouge them out. I'd put my fingers together and just--JAB--and scoop out. OR I'd take my ecigs and jab them into his temples and beat the living $#!+ out of him. I would try to rip him to shreds even if I only had my bare hands. I'd go berserk. I've played make-believe about situations like this for a long, long time and I know that God would help me. He has always helped me because he preserves my life. I'm a peaceful person--but like with all peaceful people--I have a vicious side that I control because I hate evil. I don't know why, but I feel very sorry for anyone who attempts to take my life. Something tells me that they would regret it very, very much, indeed. I don't know what would happen, but I have a strong feeling that they would 'get it' because God is with me.

Thanks to God, I have survived several experiences that probably should have killed me. And I rely on Him to save me.

Nothing could ever make me deny the truth because I have seen the truth with my own eyes time and time again. God has blessed me very much--and I believe the purpose of those who are blessed is to spread that blessing. So, I hope God sees me as more useful alive than dead. But if God says it's my time, I will gladly go. Because, if I am anything, I am a servant of the Lord.

A very silly and somewhat bloodthirsty servant of the Lord.

a reply to: EchoesInTime

I'd use my kung fu skills and Batman powers to defeat the bad guy. Or make a big mess in my pants. Whatever way it ends up, I'll go screaming, kicking and yelling.

Just how I came into the world.

a reply to: seeker1963

As fast as we remove actual violence from our lives, we have to recognise the importance it has to our overall survival.

At my son's school last week construction was going on and somehow the alarm was set off. The teachers thought there was a real emergency and told the students in my son's class to all line up against the wall. My son said "mom,at first we all thought it was real cuz my teacher looked so scared". She had them line up against the walls and they stayed that way for a while till all clear was given. When he told me this I asked him how he felt. He said he wasn't really scared until he saw how scared she was. But of course, he just brushed it off like it was nothing.

Is that the best idea they have, is to line up kids against the wall? They have no protection in that position. I just wish we/they could come up with some ideas on how to protect our kids. I feel sometimes like I'm playing russian roulette with their lives just by sending them to school. I know it's unlikely there will be a shooter at their school, but it doesn't stop my imagination from going wild.

Personally, I'm befuddled by the lack of the "Frak this ish" attitude and people mass-jumping any lone shooter. What's one shooter versus a mob on top of it? "Well, they could be a walking bomb, you know!" True. But that suffocating mob pinning the shooter/possible walking bomb down could alleviate a whole lot more much more quickly than letting it play out.

I know the lack of that happening during any given mass shooting is because 1.) The drive of self-preservation, and 2.) expecting/waiting for someone else to take the initiative first.