Earthquakes

otlg27, i see more or less what you are getting at.... First of all, this thread started with earthquakes, but when you said things are normal, that's when i started reminding you of some of the things we have been going throught.

Yes, everything that we are going through and that have happened in the last few years is normal, if you take them into the context as to what happens in the history of a planet that has 4.5 +- billion years.... We had had major ELEs, lesser ELEs, and everything in between. If we look at all these occurrences as part of the history of the Earth, we can say every last one of them is "normal", since sooner or latter they happen again, or at least something similar. But the cycle we are going through is not that normal, in the known history of mankind.

Now going back to earthquakes...

You say in another thread that you have made entries in the wikipedia site. Even that site does give some of the data as to what the indonesian sea quake did to the Earth, has every earthquake that we have had, done that in the past? I don't think so, if we look at some of the things scientists of different earth fields have been saying as to what has been going on lately, things are not that "normal," and as you seem to agree with, these events do have a pretty negative effect on us. They might be normal, if we look at what happened on Earth 5,000-15,000 years ago, but in modern times, how frequent these events happen?....

---edited to correct errors---

[edit on 2-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Mauddib:

Even that site does give some of the data as to what the indonesian sea quake did to the Earth, has every earthquake that we have had, done that in the past?

No, but all subduction related quakes will cause the earth to shrink (I'm assuming that's what you are referring to by earth changes). That material that is now compressed as a result of the quake will melt, and reimmerge in time. (in other words it's a temporary effect, and it too will pass)

Do I think it's horrible that so many people died, you bet your a$$ I do. Do I think these earthquakes and hurricanes are bad for people, yep. Are any of these 'the end of the world' no. Not even the end of humanity.

Are they ever 'all' that bad, not really (I know it sounds horrible to say). Some selected other natural disaster death tolls:

500,000 Bhola Cyclone (hurricane) Bangladesh, 1970
900,000 flood of the Huang He river: China 1887
400,000 Tangshan earthquake China 1976

But, to put it all in persepective folks:

3,800,000 people are estimated to have died as a result of the ongoing Congo war. (ONGOING WAR)
50-60M in WWII
1,000,000 in the Sudanese Civil war

So while we are all worrying about things we can't control (earthquakes) we are ignoring an ongoing war that has kill 30x as many people.

This link was the source by the way:
en.wikipedia.org...

I guess what I'm saying is, yes we as humans do bad things. But to sensationalize them, is to do a dis-service to your cause if you want people like myself (rational, fact-based decision makers) to actually do something about it.

The best way to convince someone to change their mind is rational well thought out debate. The over-sensationalization that occurs on this forum and in the media obviously doesn't work, so maybe we try taking a bigger picture, fact-based view of things. It's so crazy it just might work.

Regards,

Osiris

Originally posted by otlg27

The best way to convince someone to change their mind is rational well thought out debate. The over-sensationalization that occurs on this forum and in the media obviously doesn't work, so maybe we try taking a bigger picture, fact-based view of things. It's so crazy it just might work.

Regards,

Osiris

So, now that you are giving those facts about what is happening in wars, you are also over-sensationalizing wars..... ( i don't think you are, but i wanted to point out that we could say the same thing by you giving those numbers)

The way things are going, wars will be the least we have to worry about. Anyways, what exactly can we do to stop wars.....except going to these countries and actually fighting wars to stop them?.... You don't think that peacetalks have been tried?....

Many of these wars are caused by extremists fighting against moderates and those that do not follow their religion, others are caused because some warlords want to have total control over certain regions.....peacetalks are not going to solve anything.


[edit on 2-1-2005 by Muaddib]

BTW, first did i mention anywhere the "end of the world"?....

No, because first, i don't believe the world is going to end any time soon, a lot of drastic changes are on the way, but no end of the world. Also, before you go telling people they haven't done any research, perhaps you should see some of the posts members, mods, and reporters of ATSNN have posted, including me. I always back up my claims when it comes to any physical topic i write about. Second, what you call as sentationalist information, quite a few members, including me, call it understated problems. We have more than enough threads in these forums with information from scientists which differ in opinion with your views, not only what CNN and other media outlets post.


[edit on 2-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW...i don't know where you get last year was fairly normal...we normally only get one major earthquake once a year, last year we had one 8.1, a 9.0, and Nine 7+. That is nothing normal...

Here's normal for you.
Number of Earthquakes per Year, Magnitude 7.0 or Greater
1900 - 1999

neic.usgs.gov...

Or look this and you'll notice that bigger quakes have been much common 50 years ago.
neic.usgs.gov...

And try to remember that one Richter increase in magnitude means 32 times as much energy so for example you would need 32 magnitude 6 quakes to release same amount of energy as one 7 Richter quake. (or 32 6.5 for one 7.5... or 7 Richter quakes to get one 8 Richter quake)

First of all, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just for the record.

Secondly, see my next post...

Thirdly:

Originally posted by Muaddib

So, now that you are giving those facts about what is happening in wars, you are also over-sensationalizing wars..... ( i don't think you are, but i wanted to point out that we could say the same thing by you giving those numbers)

The way things are going, wars will be the least we have to worry about. Anyways, what exactly can we do to stop wars.....except going to these countries and actually fighting wars to stop them?.... You don't think that peacetalks have been tried?....

Many of these wars are caused by extremists fighting against moderates and those that do not follow their religion, others are caused because some warlords want to have total control over certain regions.....peacetalks are not going to solve anything.

[edit on 2-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Well what sir, do you suggest we do about earthquakes? If we can't even make humans behave what makes you think there is any point to worrying about earthquakes and hurricanes?

If I die in an earthquake during a hurricane during a summer of 150degree heat, well, there ain't much I can do about it, now is there

For the record the only way to end any fighting (including this debate) is to enable rational discourse and hope common sense prevails. If peace talks don't work, how about educating the world as whole. More educated persons seem less likely to kill each other IMHO.

How about we feed the starving and house the homeless. Maybe then there would be less war and crime.

I think (and this isn't a knock on you or any one person directly) that we all like geting caught up in this disaster talk because it distracts from real problems that are under our (much more anyway) direct control and makes us feel less bad about the **ity job we've done with them.

Osiris

Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, first did i mention anywhere the "end of the world"?....

Never said you did. Sorry for not wording that clearly. There's just been a lot of that around these parts lately, and it's starting to grate on my nerves. Apologies.

No, because first, i don't believe the world is going to end any time soon, a lot of drastic changes are on the way, but no end of the world.

Fair enough.

Also, before you go telling people they haven't done any research, perhaps you should see some of the posts members, mods, and reporters of ATSNN have posted, including me.

Then respectfully I suggest you do better research, at least on this thread. (The other thread you linked was, on the other hand well researched or at the very least well cited). You've made several statements on things being out of the ordinary. When facts have been presented to counter your 'research' you have backed away from the topic/ignored it entirely.

I always back up my claims when it comes to any physical topic i write about.

Never say never and never say always. You've made some pretty bold statements, especially about weather patterns, on this thread that have no backup, and are infact false.

Second, what you call as sentationalist information, quite a few members, including me, call it understated problems. We have more than enough threads in these forums with information from scientists which differ in opinion with your views, not only what CNN and other media outlets post.

[edit on 2-1-2005 by Muaddib]

I have NO problem with differing opinion, but I won't bow to it either. You seem to think we have some fundamental difference in opinion on a lot more things than I think we do. I just prefer to take the longer-term view to all of it, so I have a different perspective.

For the record, our disagreements in this thread have been (from memory):

This year's earthquake activity is above normal. This just isn't the case with the notable exception I made earlier.

This year's hurricane season was unexpectedly/unprecidently big. That's simple not the case. It was big (which I concede earlier). It was also predicted to be well above average before it even started. To say it was unexpected would not be true. Further, it is far from unprecidented. The other minor thing I would like to point out on that front is: Officially this was the 5th strongest hurricane season ever. However, officially it will be admitted that records prior to 1950 are likely have missed a large number of storms, and that this last season may rank no higher than 10th had we had weather satelites available prior to 1950.

Regards,

Osiris

Hi All,

Wow, I didnt expect this thread to go on this much, just maybe a quick resolution, but you have to admit, there is something at work beyond out knowledge, which we are comparing with things we have read seen etc, i for one will remain open eyed about this situation as i think there is something at work here, when i referred to them statements as in planet X, allignment etc, they were only example, something is going on, planet X could not be a planet, just a reference to what is affecting this planet (in a huge way) thats why higher magnitude earthquakes, lets have a look what has recently transpired,

The Huge Earthquake that recently happened, causing that huge tsunami (i say a prayer to all those lost)

looking at iris information, a lot of bigger quakes have been reported in such a small time

Volcanic activity - mt ranier, st helens, yellow stone, something is happening there.

climatic increase, has an overall effect on this world, its been going for some time due to its users neglect - this has now built up to a crazy extreme, things are heppening

Planet Allignment ( I think) has an effect on the gravitional forces of our world, only minor, but they play a part in the bigger picture

Planet X Could refer to anything, doesnt have to be a planet, just a huge force out there making changes to our planet, if it is a planet, would the government/nasa be reluctant to tell us, no as it would cause mass hysteria,

I live in the UK and we get mainly crappy rain and wind, but only onc christmas day, it snowed, and only snowed on that day, which made me think, how come it only snow on that day and ONLY that day

It just got me thinking about this planet and its current change, something is happening right now, so rather than saying its all normal, lets just have at least some reserve to say that there IS some in the works here, and it will be soon revealed to us.

sorry for any typo's grammar etc

Scaart:

This isn't direct at you in particular (just FYI)....

Would someone else like to try and explain why so many things in the last post are wrong. I give up. Aparrently, the facts don't matter around these parts....

Originally posted by otlg27

Well what sir, do you suggest we do about earthquakes? If we can't even make humans behave what makes you think there is any point to worrying about earthquakes and hurricanes?

We cannot stop earthquakes, but we can have better contingency plans, even to evacuate possibly entire cities from coastal areas, or any area that is affected by these changes.

Now, you want to go to the world and educate them, for many people that would be brainwashing, etc.... Yet, how can you do that when many don't want that?.... How can you educate Islamic extremist groups and children that have been brainwashed to hate Jewish people and everyone that supports them?....

How about trying to educate warlords in Africa?..... if you really believe this is possible, you don't know what is going on down there then. BTW, I am not aware of everything that happens in Africa either, but i don't think those warlords that are in control would like you or anyone else going down there and trying to educate them or the people...

Mauddib:

Alright let's agree to disagree. Since you are unwilling to explore the possibility of dealing with the human part of the problem, I am unwilling to explore the possibility of dealing with any of the others, because your concept of evactuations would mean moving (to name just american cities at geological/tectonic risk):

San Francisco, New York (tsunami), Miam, (hell 99% of florida), Boston (ok hell, most of the eastern sea board), Los Angeles, San Diego.. (ok most of the west coast).. and seeing as there is a chance of yellowstone blowing up, well really we need to evacuate everyone west of that to at least 1000 miles east of that.. but that puts us on the coast.. hrmm.... ok can't evacuate against all the possibilities... see the problem????

It's easy to point out problems, it's hard to find solutions. I'm done with this topic, since you refuse to budge, and constantly dodge issues when you are proved wrong anyway...

Osiris

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by otlg27

Well what sir, do you suggest we do about earthquakes? If we can't even make humans behave what makes you think there is any point to worrying about earthquakes and hurricanes?

We cannot stop earthquakes, but we can have better contingency plans, even to evacuate possibly entire cities from coastal areas, or any area that is affected by these changes.

Now, you want to go to the world and educate them, for many people that would be brainwashing, etc.... Yet, how can you do that when many don't want that?.... How can you educate Islamic extremist groups and children that have been brainwashed to hate Jewish people and everyone that supports them?....

How about trying to educate warlords in Africa?..... if you really believe this is possible, you don't know what is going on down there then. BTW, I am not aware of everything that happens in Africa either, but i don't think those warlords that are in control would like you or anyone else going down there and trying to educate them or the people...

Originally posted by E_T
Here's normal for you.

Let me give you a link which Valhall posted in one of her threads in the Fragile Earth forum.

www.thedivinesibyl.com...

Te amount of earthquakes accordingto that link has increased since 1970.

That first, second...what happened in SE Asia is unprecedented as well as some of the other weather patterns we have had in the past few years. These changes we are going through are getting worse and its not really normal. i will post some links later in this forum since it seems few people read the forums from ATSNN which corroborates that the weather and other disasters seem to be getting worse. There is nothing "normal" about them. Well, they are normal as in these same things happened about 10,000-12,000 years ago...

Originally posted by otlg27

It's easy to point out problems, it's hard to find solutions. I'm done with this topic, since you refuse to budge, and constantly dodge issues when you are proved wrong anyway...

You proved me wrong?....i must have missed that somewhere....

I have been discussing this, along with some other members, for almost a year now otlg27. Some other members have done it even longer, and we have all presented many facts, and done a lot of research. We have done many threads about these changes, from earthquakes to climate change before you came here...and now you come, say a couple of things, and tell me we are wrong?.....tsk, tsk... Perhaps you should have done a search on the forums and look at what we have discussed before saying that you have all the anwsers and we are all wrong. I don't think i have all the anwsers either, but i know we are facing a huge problem.

Here are a few of the links on what we have discussed so far about this topic on the changes the Earth is going through...and of course we are along for a ride. i am posting also many threads that have nothing to do with earthquakes but with how human activities, releasing gases, chemicals etc into the atmosphere and the oceans have an impact on the Earth, the current climate change we are going through and the impacts it is having on our flora and fauna as well as humans. These threads also show with evidence that everything is not normal as you and some other members seem to think.

EXCLUSIVE: Review of Dr. Camille Parmesan's Research: Global Warming Effects on Biological Systems

SCI/TECH: Earthquakes that Would Cause a Tsunami in Pacific Northwest Could be overdue

SCI/TECH: Satellites Record Weakening North Atlantic Current

SCI/TECH: Federal Water Facility Responsible For Earthquakes.

EXCLUSIVE: Interview with Dr. Camille Parmesan on Climate Changes, Biosystems, and U.S. Policy

SCI/TECH: Global Warming Has Already Impacted U.S Wildlife.

SCI/TECH: A Wildlife Catastrophe in the U.K.

SCI/TECH: Climate Fears as Carbon Levels Soar

SCI/TECH: Study: Greenhouse Gases, Not Solar Activity, Cause of Global Warming

SCI/TECH: Pole Shift, Already Underway

NEWS: Brown Pelicans Are Washing Ashore in California Beaches in Near Dead Conditions.

SCI/TECH: Fewer Sea Turtles Have Nested in South Florida This Season.

1,500 Homing Pidgeons Get Lost in a Race in Sweden.

NEWS: Record Storms And Lightning Strikes Reported in Canada.

Pelicans mistake Arizona asphalt for lakes

SCI/TECH: The Future With Climate Change.

NEWS: The Nearly 28,000 Pelicans from ND Still Nowhere to be Found

SCI/TECH: Sun at Highest Activity in the Past 1,150 Years

NEWS: Parts of the world drying up says the UN.

SCI/TECH: 17 Straight Days of Rain, Climate Change Report 4

SCI/TECH: More Unusual Weather, Heavy Rain, Flooding, Power Out

NEWS: Arctic thawing more than twice as fast as rest of the world.

27,000 pelicans have abandonned their eggs in North Dakota.

Has the North Atlantic Current changed?

NEWS: More Unusual weather, Rains continue in Texas Flooding Grows

NEWS: Unusual weather, Rain for most of the U.S.A

Global warming is REAL

SCI/TECH: When North Becomes South: New Clues to Earth's Magnetic Flip

So what's the word in Sudden Climate change, is it real?


Ok, i know it is a long read, but i have taken most of the threads where we were only reporting strange weather patterns, and there was no much discussion going on. Now, if you want to discuss this topic do read the information in those threads, and the links that you can find in them, then we can discuss this some more.....


[edit on 3-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Now, back to what you were saying about evacuating most of the States....

First of all, I never said we had to evacuate right now everyone from the coasts.... what I said is that we need better contingency plans, and we should explore all avenues that can possibly predict any extreme climate changes/disasters, in case anything does happen like in SE asia.

Yes, we are a bit more prepared than SE Asia, but we still don't have the necessary plans to make mass evacuations, or have any plans on how to feed, shelter, keep warm, and provide necessary medical attention to large amounts of people. This is part of what some scientists were saying to White House officials in the "Pentagon Weather Nightmare scenario report."

Here is a link to this report.
www.independent-media.tv...


Eventually, sometime in the future people living in the coasts will move inland, and towards higher ground anyways....but i never said, "okay, everyone just pick up your things and leave right now".....

Originally posted by Muaddib
www.thedivinesibyl.com...
Te amount of earthquakes accordingto that link has increased since 1970.

How many times I have to tell you that mag 4 quakes are insignificant, it's same like jumping in front of seismometer and saying that seismic acticity is increasing when seismometer detects your jumping.
Also it's more than propable that part of mag 4 quakes went unnoticed even few decades ago.
And most important: mag 8 quake is million times more powerfull than mag 4 quake.
So there can be increase of 100 000 in small quakes without any increased seismic activity if amount of bigger quakes is close to average.

Like you can see (I wouldn't anymore bet about that) there isn't any unprecedented increase in big quakes.
neic.usgs.gov...

Here, look dates of the most biggest quakes and say that there has been more of them in last years than what is normal:
neic.usgs.gov...


For those changes in climate you have already answered many times yourself, it's global warming and there's no need for some "heavenly" godlike force when mankind continues spewing out greenhouse gases at current rate. (literally dwarfing volcanic greenhouse emissions)

Now, you want to go to the world and educate them, for many people that would be brainwashing, etc.... Yet, how can you do that when many don't want that?.... How can you educate Islamic extremist groups and children that have been brainwashed to hate Jewish people and everyone that supports them?....

How about one certain country which is taught to be the center of the universe?

Originally posted by Muaddib
How many times I have to tell you that mag 4 quakes are insignificant, it's same like jumping in front of seismometer and saying that seismic acticity is increasing when seismometer detects your jumping.

Humm...i note a condescending tone...so i will use one also....

Tell me professor E_T....aren't earthquakes supposed to decrease in magnitude if the frequency of occurrence increases?...... We have been having an increase in 4+ earthquakes around the world, yet we just had two great earthquakes within 5 days of each other.....and the aftershocks of the SE Asia sea quake are still occurring, many of them being 6+, the smallest being 5+, and it doesn't seem to be stopping any time soon.

According to real geologists, not wanna-be-ones, there is a high possibility of having another major earthquake, this time in the Pacific NW that will cause a Tsunami, this earthquake could hit any time now if we are still in a cluster of earthquakes at the Cascadia Subduction Zone.

Even though their prediction doesn't say much except warn us, the fact that the amount of earthquake occurrence has increased, but we keep getting great earthquakes, with the magnitude and effects of the SE Asia sea quake, it should tell you that earthquake activity has increased... because that seems to be exactly what is happening.

Here is a link to what real geologists are predicting.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by E_T
How about one certain country which is taught to be the center of the universe?

Well E_T, if that is taught at your schools, perhaps you should talk to your own government and not trying to blame someone else......


[edit on 3-1-2005 by Muaddib]

It would strike me that otlg27 is the only sane person on this section.

Nothing unusual is happening to this planet, the Tsunami was an extraordinary event. nothing is going on to hale the end of the earth, and what this about the solar system going through some "energy field" that is setting of stuff everywhere what a load of tripe.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Tell me professor E_T....aren't earthquakes supposed to decrease in magnitude if the frequency of occurrence increases?...... We have been having an increase in 4+ earthquakes around the world, yet we just had two great earthquakes within 5 days of each other.....

That's right, when there's only one or two 8+ quakes in every year there's thousands of mag 4&5 quakes in same time.

But you seem to have big problem in realising that Richter scale isn't linear... in this case 4+4 isn't 8 but ~4.2, only 32x32x32x32x4 gives eight as result.
0.1 Richter increase means ~1.4 times as big energy, ~0.2 Richter increase is enough to double released energy, ~0.4 increase means 4x amount of energy, ~0.6 increase 8x and ~0.8 increase 16x energy release.

I would prefer even big increase in mag 4-5 quakes instead of increase in really big ones.


Because you seem to be uncapable to following links here's it:
Number of Earthquakes per Year, Magnitude 7.0 or Greater 1900 - 1999

1900 13 1930 13 1960 22 1990 12
1901 14 1931 26 1961 18 1991 11
1902 8 1932 13 1962 15 1992N 23
1903 10 1933 14 1963 20 1993M 16
1904 16 1934 22 1964 15 1994 15
1905 26 1935 24 1965 22 1995E 25
1906 32 1936 21 1966 19 1996 22
1907 27 1937 22 1967 16 1997 16
1908 18 1938 26 1968 30 1998 12
1909 32 1939 21 1969 27 1999 18
1910 36 1940 23 1970 29 2000 15
1911 24 1941 24 1971 23 2001 16
1912 22 1942 27 1972 20 2002 13
1913 23 1943* 41 1973 16 2003 15
1914 22 1944 31 1974 21
1915 18 1945 27 1975 21
1916 25 1946 35 1976$ 25
1917 21 1947 26 1977 16
1918 21 1948 28 1978 18
1919 14 1949 36 1979 15
1920 8 1950 39 1980 18
1921 11 1951 21 1981 14
1922 14 1952 17 1982 10
1923 23 1953 22 1983 15
1924 18 1954 17 1984 8
1925 17 1955 19 1985 15
1926 19 1956 15 1986# 6
1927 20 1957 34 1987 11
1928 22 1958 10 1988 8
1929 19 1959 15 1989 7

Total 1900-1997 = 1960 events = 20 per year

* Most active year since 1900
# Least active year since 1900
$ Year with most people killed since 1900 (295,000 - 699,000;
dominated by the Tangshan quake with casualty estimate from
255,000 - 655,000)
N First full year of operation on NSN/digital recording system
M Year moment magnitude quotes were introduced
E Year energy magnitude quotes were introduced
Statistics were compiled from the Earthquake Data Base System of the U.S. Geological Survey,
National Earthquake Information Center, Golden CO

2004 had 15 mag 7+ quakes.
neic.usgs.gov...

If there's something abnormal its why there hasn't been any other really big quakes in last decades.

EDIT2: Let's try again.

Location Date UTC Magnitude Coordinates
1. Chile 1960 05 22 9.5 38.24 S 73.05 W
2. Prince William Sound, Alaska 1964 03 28 9.2 61.02 N 147.65 W
3. Andreanof Islands, Alaska 1957 03 09 9.1 51.56 N 175.39 W
4. Kamchatka 1952 11 04 9.0 52.76 N 160.06 E
5. West Coast of Northern Sumatra 2004 12 26 9.0 3.30 N 95.78 E
6. Off the Coast of Ecuador 1906 01 31 8.8 1.0 N 81.5 W
7. Rat Islands, Alaska 1965 02 04 8.7 51.21 N 178.50 E
8. Assam - Tibet 1950 08 15 8.6 28.5 N 96.5 E
9. Kamchatka 1923 02 03 8.5 54.0 N 161.0 E
10. Banda Sea, Indonesia 1938 02 01 8.5 5.05 S 131.62 E
11. Kuril Islands 1963 10 13 8.5 44.9 N 149.6 E

According to real geologists, not wanna-be-ones, there is a high possibility of having another major earthquake, this time in the Pacific NW that will cause a Tsunami, this earthquake could hit any time now if we are still in a cluster of earthquakes at the Cascadia Subduction Zone.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well... where's that claimed abnormal increase in quakes?
It has happened many times in history and is completely normal "periodical" event, just like they say.

"The two most recent major earthquakes on this fault occurred in the year 1700 and approximately the year 1500, Goldfinger said. Those two events were only 200 years apart, and it's now been 305 years since the last one. From this perspective, there's some reason to believe the next major earthquake could happen soon."

Well E_T, if that is taught at your schools, perhaps you should talk to your own government and not trying to blame someone else......

Nope, I don't live in Bush-landia, here in Finland most of geography and history classes are used to study other countries/world.

EDIT: We need tag which retains all HTML formatting inside it, because "HTML is On" doesn't mean anything.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by E_T]

I completely agree that nothing unusual has happened. 9.0 earthquakes happen frequently (in geologic timescales), and the chart so thoughtfully provided earlier shows the rate of large quakes has been pretty constant over the last 100 years.

In fact, the Earth is a very dynamic place. There are no constants, excepting only that change is constant and natural events of all kinds keep happening. One of the biggest changes is in ourselves. CNN is recent, and therefore intensive reporting of this event is new, the immediacy is new (it was months before Europe found out about Krakatoa, for example), and the burgeoning (and vulnerable) population along these coasts is new.

So, if you fail to take a long, contextual view, it may appear that something new and wondrous has happened. But its not the case. No doubt we'll all be much more blas� about the next 9.0 that kills 100,000.

The geologic record shows that there have been much, much more dangerous and titanic events. I invite you to consider, for example, the excitement that would have resulted from the Rocky Mountains being thrust 10,000 or so feet into the sky. Or consider when the Mediteranean Sea basin was filled by the opening of the Atlantic into it 5.4 million years ago. Now THAT was a flood. Think about the scale of the volcanic eruption that created the Big Island of Hawaii, or Iceland. Mount St. Helens in 1980 was a wet firecracker compared to some of the blasts we see evidence of in the geologic record. The Ice Age glaciers blanketed much of the Northern Hemisphere, and they only retreated about 10-12,000 years ago. There are many more examples.

So, its really just business as usual for old Mother Earth. We're fortunate that we live, after all is said and done, in a relatively benign and quiet period of geologic time. At least, it appears to be that way...

Originally posted by Rock Hunter
It would strike me that otlg27 is the only sane person on this section.

Nothing unusual is happening to this planet, the Tsunami was an extraordinary event. nothing is going on to hale the end of the earth, and what this about the solar system going through some "energy field" that is setting of stuff everywhere what a load of tripe.

Where did i say anywhere the end of the Earth was near?.... First, i don't believe the Earth is going to end, a lot of changes are on the way, and i think that otlg27 agrees with this also...he just doesn't agree with the idea that mankind activities are accelerating or helping these changes at all.

Second, perhaps you don't know that our solar system moves through space..... and as it does it can encounter higher interstellar plasma fields, and other energy fields, and also it can go through fields of interstellar dust, or galactic clouds.

sounds like science-fiction?....let me give you some links and excerpts.

NASA's STARDUST probe is collecting samples of a cloud of gas and dust that is moving through our solar system from interstellar space.
....................
"We can see this material with the naked eye as a black zone running along the center of the Milky Way," said Dr. Donald Brownlee of the University of Washington in Seattle, principal investigator for Stardust. "These particles contain the heavy chemical elements that originated in the stars. Since every atom in our bodies came from the inside of stars, by studying these interstellar dust particles we can learn about our cosmic roots."

Excerpted from.
science.nasa.gov...

Pieces of interstellar matter are constantly passing through our solar system. These galactic visitors�atomic particles and bits of dust�flow through interplanetary space and may collide with the major bodies in the solar system�the earth and the other planets. Although each particle is microscopic, their total mass in the solar system is enormous. Indeed, about 98 percent of the gaseous fraction in the heliosphere�the volume of space filled by the solar wind?consists of interstellar material! How do these particles interact with a planet's environment? Do they have a significant impact on a planet's atmosphere? No one knows.

These questions take on special significance in light of the fact that the interstellar medium�the sun's galactic environment�is not a homogeneous substrate. Astronomers have discovered that interstellar material is organized into clouds of dust and gas with elaborate features resembling filaments, worms, knots, loops and shells. Within a relatively small region of space, just a few thousand light-years across, the interstellar medium may exhibit a broad range of temperatures, densities and compositions. Indeed, astronomers' understanding of the interstellar medium has been up-ended in the past decade as the physical and structural complexity of interstellar material has unfolded. It is now evident that the sun must have experienced a broad range of galactic environments in its 5-billion-year history.

Excerpted from.
www.americanscientist.org...

Our solar system's natural defenses are down and a vigorous cosmic dust storm is blowing through, according to a new study. The forecast calls for a prolonged and increasing blizzard of small interstellar bits.

While no serious consequences are expected, the extra dust could slightly alter our night sky and might pose an increased risk to spacecraft, which are vulnerable to high-speed impacts from the tiny particles.
.............
Threefold increase

The number of interstellar dust grains increased from four per day, per meter in 1997 to 12 per day in 2000, Landgraf said. The results were announced earlier this month. He expects the rate to stay constant until 2005, and then increase by another factor of 3 prior to 2013.

The potential effects are not well known, according to Landgraf and his colleagues at the Max-Planck-Institute.

Excerpted from.
www.space.com...




Another good article can be found at the following link.
Near-Earth Supernovas. A new NASA mission will soon leave Earth to study the remains of some uncomfortably close supernova explosions.

THE EARTH AND LIFE

By DR. ALEXEY N. DMITRIEV*


Published in Russian, IICA Transactions, Volume 4, 1997


*Professor of Geology and Mineralogy, and Chief Scientific Member,

United Institute of Geology, Geophysics, and Mineralogy,

Siberian Department of Russian Academy of Sciences.

Expert on Global Ecology, and Fast -Processing Earth Events.

Russian to English Translation and Editing:

by A. N. Dmitriev, Andrew Tetenov, and Earl L. Crockett
...............

Summary Paragraph

Current PlanetoPhysical alterations of the Earth are becoming irreversible. Strong evidence exists that these transformations are being caused by highly charged material and energetic non-uniformity's in anisotropic interstellar space which have broken into the interplanetary area of our Solar System. This "donation" of energy is producing hybrid processes and excited energy states in all planets, as well as the Sun. Effects here on Earth are to be found in the acceleration of the magnetic pole shift, in the vertical and horizontal ozone content distribution, and in the increased frequency and magnitude of significant catastrophic climatic events. There is growing probability that we are moving into a rapid temperature instability period similar to the one that took place 10,000 years ago. The adaptive responses of the biosphere, and humanity, to these new conditions may lead to a total global revision of the range of species and life on Earth. It is only through a deep understanding of the fundamental changes taking place in the natural environment surrounding us that politicians, and citizens a like, will be able to achieve balance with the renewing flow of PlanetoPhysical states and processes.
..................
The following processes are taking place on the distant planets of our Solar System. But they are, essentially speaking, operationally driving the whole System.

Here are examples of these events:

1.1.1 A growth of dark spots on Pluto [7].

1.1.2 Reporting of auroras on Saturn [8].

1.1.3 Reporting of Uranus and Neptune polar shifts (They are magnetically conjugate planets), and the abrupt large-scale growth of Uranus' magnetosphere intensity.

1.1.4 A change in light intensity and light spot dynamics on Neptune [9,10].

1.1.5 The doubling of the magnetic field intensity on Jupiter (based upon 1992 data), and a series of new states and processes observed on this planet as an aftermath of a series of explosions in July 1994 [caused by "Comet" SL-9] [12]. That is, a relaxation of a plasmoid train [13,14] which excited the Jovian magnetosphere, thus inducing excessive plasma generation [12] and it's release in the same manner as Solar coronal holes [15] inducing an appearance of radiation belt brightening in decimeter band (13.2 and 36 cm), and the appearance of large auroral anomalies and a change of the Jupiter - Io system of currents [12, 14].

Update Note From A.N.D Nov. 1997:
A stream of ionized hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, etc. is being directed to Jupiter from the volcanic areas of Io through a one million amperes flux tube. It is affecting the character of Jupiter's magnetic process and intensifying it's plasma genesis.[Z.I.Vselennaya "Earth and Universe" N3, 1997 plo-9 by NASA data]
[17].

(i shortened the list so i won't be "taxed" by excesive quoting.)


Rock Hunter....you can take your foot out of your mouth if you want now...but next time, perhaps it would be better if you made an "intelligent argument" backing your own claims with links, thanks.

BTW, i could give a link to an astronomy site in which they talk about Dr. Alexey N. Dmitriev's paper, and at least one Geographer/Earth scientist and some other members of that board, some being students of astronomy, cosmology, physics, etc, agree with what Dr Dmitriev states in the above. But the problem is that it is a forum, and I would be breaking the rules if i gave a link to it.

Once more...to see the increase in earthquake activity that we have had since the 1970s, Valhall did a good job with the following excerpt....
www.thedivinesibyl.com...




[edit on 4-1-2005 by Muaddib]