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Its hypothetical - dont get your interweb panties in a bunch...

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posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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I am starting this thread for the purposes of creating a dialogue to increase understanding and awareness of how using media to create a preconception about a group of people can backfire. I will use persons A and B in my scenario. If it helps make it more real for you, you can substitute the players with people from any two groups of your choice that make the scenario plausible. Whether they are separated by social class, net worth, annual income, race, gender, sexual preference, or their choice of hair care products is entirely irrelevant. YOU choose whomever you want for the purposes of this discussion.

Imagine A goes on television every day for a week and tells you that there are no jobs in his neighborhood. He never gets hired when he goes on interviews. If he is lucky enough to get hired, he doesn't get paid as much as B. Every time life fails to live up to A's expectations he is on tv talking about how unfair the world is and how B has it so much easier. You hear A say this stuff every day, and you start to believe him. So does the police officer who also hears A say this stuff every day. Then one day you and the police officer are standing on the street talking and A drives by in a $120,000 Jaguar. You both realize this is the guy who said for a week straight that he cant afford a car like that. Yet, there he is in a shiny new Jaguar.

So which is it? Can A afford a car like that, which means we should ignore him when he says how unfair life is to him? Or can he not afford a car like that, which means it might be stolen? Or instead of judging A, maybe you take a more middle of the road approach and say that not all A experience the same events and outcomes. Some are clearly more successful than others, regardless of their choice of hair care products. So maybe the problem isn't with society being unfair to A. Maybe the problem is some of A thinks it is easier to play the victim than work as hard as other A's. Or do you think A is setting himself up for exactly the kind of unfair treatment he is always complaining about?
Or maybe you just blame B, because its always B's fault, right?

Then what do you do when B says he is being treated unfairly? Do you dismiss him because he wasn't on tv every day for a week? Do you dismiss him because there are less of him complaining? That doesn't mean that this B is not telling the truth, only that you don't see it. Do you accuse him of just trying to muddy the waters of understanding? Do you dismiss him because you just plain don't like B? Or can you leave open the possibility that maybe some A are just as unfair as some B? Even if that means eating a little C...as in crow...

This is not meant to be a blanket statement about A, B, C, or hair care products in general. It is only for the purpose of opening a genuine dialogue on the subject of crying wolf too many times and the pitfalls of being believed - or not being believed.
edit on 22-9-2015 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

My mother taught us at early age never to tell tails on others. You just don't grass.

One man's truth is another mans lie.
edit on 22-9-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

So the As, are black people, and the Bs are white people?



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: johnwick
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So the As, are black people, and the Bs are white people?


Only if you want them to be. It could be anyone. And it really doesn't matter for the purpose of the discussion. But you can substitute anyone for either A or B. It is your choice.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Unknown . People LIE All the Time.........



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Unknown . People LIE All the Time.........


True. But does crying wolf or playing the victim too often create conditions in which you ARE likely to be treated unfairly that might not have happened otherwise?
edit on 22-9-2015 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.
edit on ndTue, 22 Sep 2015 20:58:19 -0500America/Chicago920151980 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.


THIS thread is about whatever you make it. Whether it is race, or income, or whatever is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. Please either stay on this thread and on topic or please do not respond again. And do not put words in my mouth. There is no mention of race in this thread, except to leave the option open to those who would choose to do so. Whether you believe a previous thread was about black people or not is your problem.

Rules are rules after all...and they apply to everyone.
edit on 22-9-2015 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.


That is how it seems to me honestly, because if you substitute Afore black people.... I agree unfortunately

But if you substitute A for white people, his entire op is meaningless.

I can't believe we agree.... The end is near I fear!!!!



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 09:26 PM
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It's about perspective.


Peace



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.


That is how it seems to me honestly, because if you substitute Afore black people.... I agree unfortunately

But if you substitute A for white people, his entire op is meaningless.

I can't believe we agree.... The end is near I fear!!!!


You both insist on making it about black people. I am not doing that. It is the act of crying wolf and the consequences of that act that are the topic of this discussion. Whether its race, or income, or whatever is meaningless. It doesn't have to be about real people - its HYPOTHETICAL. Cause and effect. Not races acting they way you two apparently think they act.

If substituting black people for A makes it real for you...doesn't that say something about you two more than it does me? If you cant see beyond race to address the cause and effect that is the real topic of this thread, then you have race issues. Please do not project them onto me and accuse me of having them too.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Yeah , Ah , what did Ever Happen to Chicken Little ?



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.


That is how it seems to me honestly, because if you substitute Afore black people.... I agree unfortunately

But if you substitute A for white people, his entire op is meaningless.

I can't believe we agree.... The end is near I fear!!!!


You both insist on making it about black people. I am not doing that. It is the act of crying wolf and the consequences of that act that are the topic of this discussion. Whether its race, or income, or whatever is meaningless. It doesn't have to be about real people - its HYPOTHETICAL. Cause and effect. Not races acting they way you two apparently think they act.

If substituting black people for A makes it real for you...doesn't that say something about you two more than it does me? If you cant see beyond race to address the cause and effect that is the real topic of this thread, then you have race issues. Please do not project them onto me and accuse me of having them too.


Op I fully agree, it is just scary that he and I both saw it the same way.

Sremmos80 and I have a history......

The only things we agree upon is that we don't agree about anything ever!!!

He is not a bad person, nor am I.

We both want the same things, but through much different methods.

Your op is a rorschach test..... We see what we see subconsciously..

Very well done honestly!!!

But did you plan it to be this way?

ETA-because if you did, it was a planned outcome, not a fully random event, as a true Rorschach test is meant to be.

Because your op is very leading honestly, I just reread it, it is meant to be provacative and leading.

You are claiming neutrality where you aren't providing it.

That is intellectually wrong BTW!!!
edit on 22-9-2015 by johnwick because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

I can do as I please.

I saw the previous thread and it was exactly this but you actually said it was about black people.

So have fun with your thread.



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

I can do as I please.

I saw the previous thread and it was exactly this but you actually said it was about black people.

So have fun with your thread.


I agree, it all but stated black vs white.

Or at least the perception of the difference in modern life.......


edit on 22-9-2015 by johnwick because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Didn't you already make this thread?

Must have gotten removed, but yes people it was about black people.


That is how it seems to me honestly, because if you substitute Afore black people.... I agree unfortunately

But if you substitute A for white people, his entire op is meaningless.

I can't believe we agree.... The end is near I fear!!!!


You both insist on making it about black people. I am not doing that. It is the act of crying wolf and the consequences of that act that are the topic of this discussion. Whether its race, or income, or whatever is meaningless. It doesn't have to be about real people - its HYPOTHETICAL. Cause and effect. Not races acting they way you two apparently think they act.

If substituting black people for A makes it real for you...doesn't that say something about you two more than it does me? If you cant see beyond race to address the cause and effect that is the real topic of this thread, then you have race issues. Please do not project them onto me and accuse me of having them too.


Op I fully agree, it is just scary that he and I both saw it the same way.

Sremmos80 and I have a history......

The only things we agree upon is that we don't agree about anything ever!!!

He is not a bad person, nor am I.

We both want the same things, but through much different methods.

Your op is a rorschach test..... We see what we see subconsciously..

Very well done honestly!!!

But did you plan it to be this way?

ETA-because if you did, it was a planned outcome, not a fully random event, as a true Rorschach test is meant to be.

Because your op is very leading honestly, I just reread it, it is meant to be provacative and leading.

You are claiming neutrality where you aren't providing it.

That is intellectually wrong BTW!!!


It is not planned that people see it as race, or income, or social status, or whatever. That is truly whatever you want it to be. If race makes it plausible to you, then use race. If you can use annual income and achieve the same result, that's fine too. The point is that whether you recognize A or B is truly irrelevant. It is what A and B do to themselves and each other when they play the victim card, cry wolf, yell the sky is falling (nicely done), or whatever. Its not 'who' is saying it. It is that they are saying things that are destined to come back to them in an unpleasant way.

Look at is this way: what if crying wolf is what attracts wolves?



posted on Sep, 22 2015 @ 10:51 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Vroomfondel

I can do as I please.

I saw the previous thread and it was exactly this but you actually said it was about black people.

So have fun with your thread.


No, it was not exactly this. In fact there is only one similarity. And yes you can do as you please - within the rules of the site. Following me around trying to put words in my mouth and carrying over hostility from one thread to another is wrong and you know it. THIS is the thread I am talking about. If you want to talk about another thread do it somewhere else.



posted on Sep, 23 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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If I see someone driving a nice car, the last thing I think about is how they make the means to afford it. None of my damn business. Such breeds covetous mentality and I'd rather not step in that pile.

Usually I'm too busy admiring the lines and construction of the machine.

Pretty things shouldn't be the cause of petty whining and comparing salaries.
Defeats the purpose of beauty.

Too many comparative reflections that lead to nothing good the other way 'round.

edit on 9/23/15 by GENERAL EYES because: clarity, formatting



posted on Sep, 23 2015 @ 01:59 AM
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I find this distasteful, as it begins talking about two people, but then switches to groups of people.

If A is a person who is on tv every week, they must be a celebrity...they must be a talk show host or something.
Which indicates they are probably making a good salary doing that.

But what you didn't specify is that the person driving the car is not A... it is someone who has something in common with A.


My distaste for the meshing of one person with others that have something in common with them,
The honest truth is that this IS the type of assumption people make when they're brains are lazy.

What would most likely be assumed is that this other A beat the system one way or another- that they found a way to get around the obstacles. Could be stealing the car, could be using bribery, blackmail or lies to get a job, or it could be putting on make up or a mask each day to pretend to be someone like B. Even in these scenarios which could come to mind, beating the crap out of them is not acceptable.

You do have a point I think is valid though I think your delivery here is clumsy-

What you choose to focus on grows.... what you place your belief and emotional energy in is reinforced.
Victimization beliefs reinforce, sustain and spread victimization.

Just ask any woman that has been accused of having gotten her position at work through sleeping her way up.
Thank those who cry patriarchy and systematic female victimization for such assumptions of beating the system in some immoral way.



posted on Sep, 23 2015 @ 05:24 AM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
I find this distasteful, as it begins talking about two people, but then switches to groups of people.

If A is a person who is on tv every week, they must be a celebrity...they must be a talk show host or something.
Which indicates they are probably making a good salary doing that.

But what you didn't specify is that the person driving the car is not A... it is someone who has something in common with A.


My distaste for the meshing of one person with others that have something in common with them,
The honest truth is that this IS the type of assumption people make when they're brains are lazy.

What would most likely be assumed is that this other A beat the system one way or another- that they found a way to get around the obstacles. Could be stealing the car, could be using bribery, blackmail or lies to get a job, or it could be putting on make up or a mask each day to pretend to be someone like B. Even in these scenarios which could come to mind, beating the crap out of them is not acceptable.

You do have a point I think is valid though I think your delivery here is clumsy-

What you choose to focus on grows.... what you place your belief and emotional energy in is reinforced.
Victimization beliefs reinforce, sustain and spread victimization.

Just ask any woman that has been accused of having gotten her position at work through sleeping her way up.
Thank those who cry patriarchy and systematic female victimization for such assumptions of beating the system in some immoral way.



Just first off...... You are way too hot to be 50 and your hubby looks very well taken care of and honestly happy!!!

All that out of the way, I agree fully!

I think the op is intentionally invoking unbecoming stereotypes, in some already as pointed out by sremmos80 manner that got his other thread 404ed.

It seems to be a lazy attempt to establish racism as a justification for further racist means...

Though one such as yourself easily peels back the layers to expose the hidden meaning.

I love the way you think.....




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