The Minimum wage scam

Ok Folks, I know I'm going to catch some flack for this, as published "evidence" states that there are no negative effects to raising the minimum wage and since Seattle right now has the minimum wage almost double the national and is having a current boom to their economy. I've read the articles, I know what they are saying. Raise minimum wage, raise the 23 percent of those Americans to live above the poverty level and it will be good for the economy. In the short run, they are right. For a little while they will get to live above poverty.....

And that 's when reality will have to set in. Might not happen in a month, but by year end we will see the tailspin of inflation.

I don't have any statistics to provide for this, that's why I'm posting this in the rant section. All I have are my own meager observations from the last 6 times minimum wage has gone up (and that is from the moment I knew what minimum wage was) and as demonstrated by this time video business.time.com... whatever raising minimum wage did in the past has not been happening for over 30 years.

So, this is what will really happen when minimum wage goes up to 15 dollars an hour. Ready?

First is the predicted dancing in the streets, the influx of dollars going into the economy, working poor going off of food stamps, and everyone is happy. The gas station clerk can feed her family, the cart boy can move out of his parent's basement, the stock clerk can quit their 2nd or 3rd job, and the factory workers and unarmed security guards will breathe a little easier. Not to mention, all those fry cooks and fast food clerks can actually afford to go out and eat something that doesn't come supersized. This might last a little while.... Until

Thing is, the owners of the gas stations and big oil are going to look at how their profit is dropping however much it is, and see a opportunity to raise the price of gas and products at their gas station. The farmers who use oil to make the machines that plant, water, and harvest their food and are already subsidized by the government and are struggling because they have to buy seed from Monsanto, will have to raise the price of food since they need to be able to make their payments to the bank and provide for their families.

Not the only hit to the grocery industry, each grocery chain, since mom and pop stores are almost all but extinct, have a bottom line to meet and they don't want their profits to look less than rosy. Lets face it, if they wanted to pay their clerks more than minimum wage, they would already be making that. So they up the costs over all all over the store. They may evenly distribute it through all the staples on the shelves, throwing a sale in here or there to draw you in, but make sure that they cover the now increased overhead of raises for the clerks and the increased amount they pay the farmers and/or distributors.

Likewise, any factory of American made product or raw material that currently pays their employee minimum wage, not to mention the good factories that do pay their employees enough to survive also has a need for big oil, as we are super dependent on that one item. For the American made products that pay minimum wage, the wage increases and oil price rise will be a double whammy resulting in one of two results. Either the products we buy every day, sundries, clothes, shoes, household goods and cleansers, even cars are going to go up in price to make up for the fact of the increased overhead or these factory owners are going to look to moving what is left of American factories overseas and lay off countless Americans. I have to repeat, if those businesses wanted to take on the burden of poverty on their own bottom line then their employees wouldn't be making minimum wage. The company that is responsible and pays a living wage, will have to raise their products prices as well to meet the oil prices, and are going to have to pay their employees even more so they can meet the rising food, product, and oil costs.

Fast food and grocery will turn the check out clerk into self service kiosks with only one or two people to police them. Everything will be automated with just a person to make sure it is all functioning properly.

Security companies will have to pay their guards more, which means they will charge their clients more, who in tern will raise their service costs. To meet with the increasing prices of the basic materials, every other job/professional will raise the wages and prices of goods and services.

And in the end, we end up WORSE than we were before.

Gone are the days when those in power had to pull themselves out of the muck to get to the top. Gone are the days where the CEO remembers eating ramon noodles for months straight so their children can afford some healthier food or watching their mother cry over the bills because she isn't making enough to support the family. We have the Kardasians, Hiltons, Kenedys and Bushes. CEO's inherit their places like a king inherits his thrown. They are the modern day aristocracy, riding on the backs of their fore-fathers.

They won't give up their yachts, private planes and penthouses so the rest of us can live comfortably. They don't care about our comfort.

IF THEY DID, MINIMUM WAGE WOULDN'T NEED TO EXIST BECAUSE EVERY WORKING BODY WOULD BE MAKING A LIVABLE WAGE.

Please, please, please, wake up everyone. Raising minimum wage is a scam to keep the masses from noticing how high on the hog the upper class live and how low on the totem poll they are.

a reply to: JessicaS

Eventually you get the trifecta, higher unemployment, higher living costs and diminished entrepreneurship.

A sure recipe for a downward spiral.

The only winners in all of these shenanigans is the administrators and employees of the state. After all, if there is minimum entry wage then employers will hire more valuable employees leaving the entry level out of luck so it doesn't even help the people it is supposed to in the first place.

Minimum wage will still be minimum wage. The bottom will still be the bottom.
Nothing will change but the prices.

a reply to: greencmp

I'm not sure I follow how it would benefit administrators and employees of the state, unless you are talking about the influx of taxes due to the higher income bracket which will end up inevitably into our senators and congress-mens pockets. The few state workers I know make just a few dollars over the minimum and that is after years of working for the state. While raising minimum to 15 an hour would be beneficial to them in the short run, they too will get caught into the web of poverty.

originally posted by: JessicaS
a reply to: greencmp

I'm not sure I follow how it would benefit administrators and employees of the state, unless you are talking about the influx of taxes due to the higher income bracket which will end up inevitably into our senators and congress-mens pockets. The few state workers I know make just a few dollars over the minimum and that is after years of working for the state. While raising minimum to 15 an hour would be beneficial to them in the short run, they too will get caught into the web of poverty.

Certainly the vast majority of any workforce is on the low end of the income bracket but, whatever rate they pay (presumably minimum wage?) it is a job that ought not to exist in the first place so, I consider state workers to be the real welfare recipients. But, that aside, I am implying that "the state" (a derogatory term in this context as I am assigning it a personality and an agenda) is creating a dependent class upon which it can rely to vote for it.

The bottom line is that setting a limit on one side(the bottom) and not a limit on the other side (the top) does not work. I am not opposed to minimum wage increases but they are only temporarily effective (which is still better than nothing). The real issue is the maximum wage...there is none.

a reply to: JessicaS

Thing is, the owners of the gas stations and big oil are going to look at how their profit is dropping however much it is, and see a opportunity to raise the price of gas and products

yah. you can spin it alot of ways but its called inflation ... the raising minimum wage may aggravate the problem but its not the cause to begin with ...

Dan Price.

LOL.

a reply to: JessicaS

You are right. It is a scam and just to add my 2cents:

Any employer can now say i will only pay you minimum wage because thats what the state says, doesnt matter what job you do... and it doesn't if the job paid £20 per hour efore, they can drop that to the minimum wage!

a reply to: spav5


I have to agree, there should be a maximum wage simply because there are individuals out there making millions in a year's time. (what on earth do they spend that on?) US senators (who should be seen as public servants who basically won a popularity contest) make in the upwards of 174,000 dollars, on top of whatever private ventures they have going. So a maximum wage should definitely be assessed.

That being said, how much should be to much? At what point does it become grotesque? My vote would be for no more than one million per year. But then what should happen to the excess? Redistribute? and How?

a reply to: greencmp

I don't know if you can say that for all State employees. For example, I have a friend who works for the Prison System in my home state. She does basic book keeping that helps keep the inmates accounts straight and the purchasing of the prison sundries and goods. Would you say those positions are welfare? Which positions would be?

originally posted by: spav5
The bottom line is that setting a limit on one side(the bottom) and not a limit on the other side (the top) does not work. I am not opposed to minimum wage increases but they are only temporarily effective (which is still better than nothing). The real issue is the maximum wage...there is none.

I don't want anybody telling me I make to much money. Hell no!

originally posted by: JessicaS
a reply to: greencmp

I don't know if you can say that for all State employees. For example, I have a friend who works for the Prison System in my home state. She does basic book keeping that helps keep the inmates accounts straight and the purchasing of the prison sundries and goods. Would you say those positions are welfare? Which positions would be?

In that case, probably something worse than welfare.

My point is that most public positions (federal, state and town jobs) are nepotistic make work and bureaucracy that consume the lion's share of the tax "revenue" intended for whatever purpose was mandated by some supporting legislation.

a reply to: Tellurian

Minimum wage does more than aggravate our inflation problem. It's pouring gasoline on a fire. Take what the federal reserve is doing and then put it on steroids.

And Frankly the federal reserve and it's effect on inflation was not the purpose of this post. It's the effect of raising minimum wage has on the economy. Because you can't argue that if we had the gold standard there would be no inflation if minimum wage was set and constantly upped. It would. Because the rich want to stay rich and get richer while the poor loses everything in the mix. Surfs, that's all we are.

This topic hurts my head. And my heart. And my wallet.
I believe EVERYONE deserves a living wage. If you're working 40 hours a week, you shouldn't have to STILL rely on government assistance...maybe healthcare assistance. But not food, housing, cash.
Not EVERYONE can be managers, CEO's, etc. We need servers, and janitors, and cashiers just as much as we need the big guys.
I own a business and as much as it pains me, I will not start my employees on less than $15 an hour. Because that is the very minimum amount people can live off of in Denver right now. I don't want to see my employees struggling just to make it to work because they don't have gas, or skipping meals because they are hungry. I need my employees sharp, energetic, and comfortable.

I've lived on both ends. So maybe I can see things with a little more clarity. If you're busting your ass for $7/hr and that is that absolute best you can do at the time, and you still can't pay rent, something is wrong with the system, not the individual.

a reply to: alishainwonderland

Great to hear your story. I know Denver and you are absolutely right. Wondeful employer you are! Good on ya.

40 hours a week of anything should be enough to live.

originally posted by: JessicaS
a reply to: spav5


I have to agree, there should be a maximum wage simply because there are individuals out there making millions in a year's time. (what on earth do they spend that on?) US senators (who should be seen as public servants who basically won a popularity contest) make in the upwards of 174,000 dollars, on top of whatever private ventures they have going. So a maximum wage should definitely be assessed.

That being said, how much should be to much? At what point does it become grotesque? My vote would be for no more than one million per year. But then what should happen to the excess? Redistribute? and How?

I am not sure how much. I only know that capping the bottom and not the top does not work logically. Our currency is fiat and can be inflated and deflated at will....without the cap at the top they simply print more money and now my $15 an hour is like $8. If they cap how much wealth a person can have then they(the very wealthy) will want the currency deflated...but if you cap at both ends there is no incentive to inflate or deflate the currency.

I believe we are doomed on this planet as long as there is currency. With currency it is possible for one person to hoard billions of dollars in resources.

When we have discovered an equitable way to use currency we will have discovered that we don't need currency at all.

a reply to: JessicaS

I pretty much agree with your reasons for opposing the minimum wage. But I wish you had suggested some alternative ideas to address the wealth inequality issues our bought-and-paid-for politicians and corporations have creation, among other problems. A wise woman once told me to never bring attention to a problem without also bringing a solution to the problem. You may be dismissed as a rabble rouser, only looking to cause trouble, not wanting to find real solutions. But worse, you also leave the solutions up to others (usually the ones who created the problem to begin with).

I like a "proportionate wage," wherein the lowest paid employee cannot be paid less than a designated proportion of the highest paid employee. Or to put it another way, the highest paid employee cannot make more than 400% of the lowest paid employee. If the lowest paid employee makes $25,000 per year, the higest paid employee cannot be paid more than $100,000 per year. (I'm not saying the ratio should be 400%, just throwing that number out there because it was easy to figure in my head!)

Another idea I like is a profit-sharing plan, in which the year's profits are shared with all employee's proportionately.

Personally, I would like to see it mandated for corporations (no one has to incorporate if they don't want to, and corporate charters should once again be structured in ways that serve the common good, in accord with the founding fathers premise of a Social Contract), and offer a lower tax rate for non-incorporated companies who choose to follow it.

a reply to: Boadicea

I wish this was a problem that could have a solution. The solution is what alishainwonderland is doing. Responsible business owners proving to their employees a livable wage. My parents owned business and would take cuts in pay so that their employees would have what was considered a livable wage. Before my father got sick and had to sell his business, his employees made more than he did. They would always pay over minimum wage, and if you were dependable, stable, and relaible you got a raise.

And they are the little guy, whose profits went to braces for my sister and I, not to a 3rd jet. The little guy is almost all but extinct.

Everything is big box corporations, who OWN government. They will make sure that any laws suggested that goes against what keeps them fat and happy never get passed.

There has to be a maximum and minimum wage on a gold standard that would force a livable wage, and even then.... well like I said we are under the control of a monarchy and aristocracy of corporations with no hope of revolution.

To those of us who make more than minimum wage, our money will be devalued and we'll end up with less.