4 police shoot and kill violent felon ---- and his girlfriend

a reply to: TechniXcality

Come on people, wake the # up!! I was an American soldier and we are not at war with our people, or are we?

Sometimes it appears so. Not the military. I could never be at war with the people and still hold my oath to defend the Constitution . Which I will pass from this earth giving it my best .

a reply to: Gothmog

Yea, you and me both but here we are..

a reply to: Greven

Once coming under fire from a known ex-con with a violent history, LE had no choice but return fire. That is how they are trained, lethal force is responded in kind. Could the approach have been planned different, or preliminary surveillance to verify the cars occupants? I don't know, I wasn't on scene nor can I Monday morning QB without details. That aside, I can't envision a reaction by LE other than returning fire once fired upon.

I will not judge the lady in the car, her choices in partners, or her decision to let her child accompany leaving him the sole survivor in this incident. I don't believe she envisioned coming under fire, or the possibility of endangering her child's life. What parent would purposely put their child in jeopardy? This chain of events was set in motion by Angelo Perry, and no one else.

a reply to: TechniXcality

He ought to eventually blame the guy who began the firefight with a squadron of police officers with he and his deceased mother in the car. Great idea dad! But yeah of course without regard for logic he will grow up a cop-hater.

originally posted by: Greven
Police: Cops fired into car not knowing infant was inside

Angelo Delano Perry, a 35-year-old Virginia Beach resident with an extensive criminal history, and 28-year-old postal carrier India Kager of College Park, Maryland, were shot to death Saturday night less than 15 seconds after officers approached the parked vehicle they were in. The couple's 4-month old son, Roman, was sitting in the rear of the vehicle in a car seat and escaped uninjured, said Virginia Beach Police Chief Jim Cervera.

This violent man got his new girlfriend killed in his recklessness. However, he wasn't the one who killed her - the police did.

They knew he was violent - he had attacked police before:
Rastafarian inmate relents on haircut after 10 years

Tafari said that on Sept. 16 at Wallens Ridge he was struck from behind and knocked unconscious by another inmate. He did not see his assailant but the inmate was charged based on video surveillance, he said.

“I turned my back and he attacked me,” alleged Tafari. “To this day I don’t know why this guy (hit) me,” he said.

The inmate charged with the assault, Angelo D. Perry, remains at Wallens Ridge and is to be tried for malicious wounding later this month. Perry, 33, was also set to be released next year but faces up to 20 additional years if convicted.
...
Both men are from Virginia Beach. Perry netted 15 years for 2001 convictions for malicious wounding, assault and battery against a law enforcement officer and drug and firearm offenses. Tafari was sentenced to 20 years in 1996 for possession of coc aine.

Why was he even out of jail? He assaulted this man in 2013 and should have remained there! It seems he was released in 2014 or perhaps 2015, but I have not found the exact date. So much for justice.

Continuing from the first article:

Perry had been under surveillance for about 30 minutes on the night of the shooting, Cervera said at a news conference.
...
"In essence, the officers put themselves in harm's way to prevent another act of violence," he said. "Our officers did everything they could to try and circumvent any kind of violent confrontation."

Perry fired four rounds at officers as they approached the vehicle, including one that struck an officer's clothing, but did not hit his body, Cervera said. He said the officers returned 30 rounds of fire at Perry and unintentionally also hit Kager, who was in the driver's seat.

The officers' recklessness killed this innocent woman. It is fortunate that her son did not pay the same price she did, at least. They knew he was violent. They knew he had attacked police before. They still decided to approach him while there were other, innocent individuals there.

I'm sadly certain that the victim will be demeaned and slandered - but think about this before you do so:

Best said Kager's father and grandfather were both retired police officers in Washington, and Best said Kager was quiet, introverted and artistically talented. She said Kager attended the Duke Ellington School for the Arts in Washington before she followed in the footsteps of her older brother and joined the military.

Military records show Kager was in the Navy from 2009 to 2013 and served as a culinary specialist. She was briefly attached to the Naval Aviation Technical Training Center in Pensacola, Florida, in 2010 before moving to Virginia Beach, where she was attached to two strike fighter squadrons for the remainder of career. The Navy said she was awarded a ribbon for pistol marksmanship and medals for good conduct and serving in the global war on terrorism. The U.S. Postal Service said Kager had been working as a carrier in Bethesda, Maryland, since August.

Best said her daughter had only been in Virginia Beach for a few hours the night of the shooting.

This is not the first time police have killed innocent parties. Recall the slain abducted bank hostage in California some time ago. There have been a number of other situations where police shoot some innocent person. It's a difficult situation, but... there's an old saying:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

It sucks a innocent person dies because her idiot boyfriend decided to open fire on police. Keep in mind if she knew he was a convicted and had a gun she was aiding and abetting for associating herself with him.

It's easy to play arm chair quarterback but how where cops to know who else was in the car when prior to getting close to the vehicle shots rang out! She knew what this guy was capable of and her death is on herself!

a reply to: Greven

The minute that this guy reacted to police with deadly force and reckless abandonment for the danger in which he was putting his girlfriend and child, he sealed her fate, and luckily not the fate of his child.

You can blame the officers all you want for her death, but if her baby-daddy hadn't acted in the manner in which he did, she wouldn't have been caught in the crossfire because there wouldn't have been any firing of rounds.

Terrible situation for the baby and the girlfriend and her family/friends (and the cops who have to live with the death of a supposed innocent person), but the burden of guilt does not lie solely, or even mainly, on the shoulders of the police officers--at least not from what you presented in this OP.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Urantia1111

Wonder who the son will blame..

If you killed my mother, for any reason I know who I'd blame.

Like Urantia1111 replied to this--if the child grows up with even a slight spark of constructive thinking and common sense, he'll blame his violent convict of a dad for the death of his mom.

With what logic would you grow up blaming the cops in this scenario?

Remember, I said logic.

a reply to: Gothmog

"The officers' recklessness killed this innocent woman."

seroiusly? what universe are you living in?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yup. You said it before me.

This is the first thing I noticed, and what is wrong with the system in general:

Perry netted 15 years for 2001 convictions for malicious wounding, assault and battery against a law enforcement officer and drug and firearm offenses. Tafari was sentenced to 20 years in 1996 for possession of coc aine.

Less of a sentence for assault and battery on a cop, which included drug and firearm offenses, but MORE of a sentence for simple coke possession by the other guy.

That is ridiculous. Makes me wanna spit.

a reply to: TechniXcality

originally posted by: TechniXcality

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Urantia1111

Wonder who the son will blame..

If you killed my mother, for any reason I know who I'd blame.

I would think you would blame the dumbass that was shooting at the cops with you in the back seat.

When it comes to my mother there's a better way, there is always a better way. Period end of story, if you don't feel that way that's your problem not mine.

...so, what if your mother was shot at by this guy and she responded by returning fire and killed the GF? Would she be a murderer for returning fire?

originally posted by: RedParrotHead

...so, what if your mother was shot at by this guy and she responded by returning fire and killed the GF? Would she be a murderer for returning fire?

Well played...

This situation is a tough one, someone opens fire, do you return fire and eliminate the threat, or do you let the guy drive away? What if those shots he fired hit some innocent person? Had the dumbass not opened fire, things may have played out differently. But wait, lets blame the people that failed to keep him in jail. Lets go back further and blame his parents for raising a violent idiot. No lets blame the cops who ended his life, and not unjustly, just because they had the final encounter with the person. Why the hell are we defending EVERYONE but the cops? Not that all cops should be defended but everytime something happens it's the cops that could have done something differently and not the idiot who's actions lead up to their demise.

a reply to: acackohfcc
And do you understand English ? Perhaps they shouldve wouldve couldve treated it as a hostage situation.
Also , look up the definition of recklessness. Surprising match , isnt it.

originally posted by: RedParrotHead
a reply to: TechniXcality

originally posted by: TechniXcality

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Urantia1111

Wonder who the son will blame..

If you killed my mother, for any reason I know who I'd blame.

I would think you would blame the dumbass that was shooting at the cops with you in the back seat.

When it comes to my mother there's a better way, there is always a better way. Period end of story, if you don't feel that way that's your problem not mine.

...so, what if your mother was shot at by this guy and she responded by returning fire and killed the GF? Would she be a murderer for returning fire?

Interesting scenario. If in public someone fires on you, you returned fire, and end up wounding or killing a bystander or that person's GF, that would be on YOU. You might not be charged with murder per se, but likely some sort of manslaughter and reckless discharge of a firearm, because you can't just go around having gun battles in the street/in public no matter what someone does to you first. Cops, on the other hand, legally *have* more authority to do such a thing.

Granted, I would personally argue it *was* the guy's fault who initially fired at me, and I was only protecting myself. A good enough attorney and jury (and how the law in that state is structured) I would likely have a good chance of beating those charges.

Similar to note, is when, say, two+ people commit a crime together. One of them has the gun and kills someone but they charge them ALL with murder, even those who didn't have a gun, and who neither shot nor killed another person. That's just not right, IMO.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Wonder who the son will blame..

If you killed my mother, for any reason I know who I'd blame.

The kid could grow up rebelling against authority and hating police. A similar circumstance occurs when the U.S. kills innocent Muslims due to collateral damage. Kids who lost their parents in the bombing will join terrorist organizations to get revenge against the United States.

And now the families will fight over the golden child with a few grand a month in benefits. There's money in that child.

The fact that Perry opened fire on cops showed that he did not care for the well being of his child or his innocent passenger. It's a shame she was killed but when you associate with people like this you are opening the door for trouble. I learned at an early age, 22 or 23, after some friends got in some big trouble and almost took me with them. I cut them off from the day on...I still talk to them maybe a couple times a year but it's not worth it anymore to hang with stupid people.

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
The fact that Perry opened fire on cops showed that he did not care for the well being of his child or his innocent passenger. It's a shame she was killed but when you associate with people like this you are opening the door for trouble. I learned at an early age, 22 or 23, after some friends got in some big trouble and almost took me with them. I cut them off from the day on...I still talk to them maybe a couple times a year but it's not worth it anymore to hang with stupid people.

Hell, that's basically the entire reason I joined the Army and left my hometown. While most of them have gotten their lives seemingly together since then (high school was almost 20 years ago for me), some have landed themselves in jail numerous times.

I had SUVs full of people pull up on me and my friends and point shotguns at us out the windows. I had my car beat with chains and the windows kicked on (but luckily not broken...gotta love 60s build quality) while trying to flee with "friends" from an imminent beat down. I left houses literally (and luckily) within an hour before they were raided by police and people were arrested for what was going on in them. Many more situations, not enough time to type them all out...

But my life is together because I had the foresight to get out of those situations and grow up, and that's all that mattered to me at the time. It's a shame that this woman didn't do the same for herself and her son in time to avoid the wrath that her idiot thug boyfriend brought down on them.

originally posted by: mikell
And now the families will fight over the golden child with a few grand a month in benefits. There's money in that child.

Oh, I expect the attorneys are standing in line to represent that kid against the city, county, state, Sheriffs dept, individual LEOs and anyone else connected with the death of his mother.

This kid will have a huge trust fund set up for him and the lawyers will make millions as will the foster parents.

It will be settled out of court....

a reply to: Liquesence

Not in Virginia. If, during the commission of a felony, you cause death or grevious bodily injury on another person, you are held responsible for that death. It's not a first degree murder charge and I don't think you can be given the death penalty for it, but you can absolutely be convicted of a second degree murder.

The blame for this woman's death lies 100% at the hands of her boyfriend. He showed an extreme disregard for her safety and the child's safety. Her death is absolutely tragic. Those of you talking about "if it was my mom" are leaving out one key element: what if your mom was shot because your dad opened fire on a bunch of cops? Dad gets off free on that? I know I would be pretty pissed at my dad for putting my mom in jeopardy in such a manner.

Cops shouldn't have returned fire? Okay, so now the guy is in a car with two hostages. Terrific plan.