I expect Messiah ben David who is NOT the Antichrist

The Old testament prophecy awaits two Messiahs: Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David.

With the arrival and rejection of Jesus Christ (ben Joseph) the Jewish teaching entered a kind of limbo in their eschatological theory.

Recent prominent Rabbis announced they await now only Messiah ben David.

Messianic Jews who accept Jesus, are not few and make an important part of worldwide Christianity, although their percentage maynot be comparable to the CONVERTED former pagan nations to Christianity in the course of history. Today's messianic Jews could be its most important part according to the writings of Paul.

I will not enter into the details of what Messiah ben Joseph should have done, connected also to Gog and Magog, and how he could be killed in the process.

The point I discuss here, is Messiah ben David. He might or might not be identical with the expected by Christians and Muslims Second Coming of Jesus Christ (although the Muslims expect him as forerunner of their prophet).

The best case scenario, we have the Second Coming in Glory. But we cannot be sure of that, since no one, not even the angels (extraterrestrials), not even the Son (Jesus Christ) know the timing of that final event.

Messiah ben David means "son of David", i.e. descendant of the same lineage of David that Jesus himself came from. Could it be possible Messiah ben David to be descendant of Jesus Christ himself? Those who believe Jesus was married, would support that hypothesis. Those who do not believe in the apocrypha books, could say, well, Jesus didn't have kids but He had enough cousins, didn't he? Anyone of those people whom we know about to be relatives of Jesus: Simon, Jude, John, James, or others whom we don't know about, could have descendants who would qualify for being Messiah ben David. If and when God grants that to happen.

Taking Jesus out of context of his time is may be one of the biggest single mistakes. I've heard absurd homilies of how Jesus and Joseph must have traveled to the other towns to find orders for their carpenter's products... as if they lived in 18th century Germany, or what? In anyway that is not a dogma of the church. Jesus lived among other people, not isolated, he had large family that extended beyond Mary, Joseph and him. He lived community life for the time he was in Nazareth. Beyond what is logical assumption for the style of life at that time, it is enigma why nothing is written about him before his public mission. (Was he absent from Earth? But that is a topic that could be discussed separately).

Jesus had ENOUGH relatives, some of them appointed by Him as apostles. There are enough descendants of the lineage of David, especially that particular branch that Jesus Christ came thru Mary.

The assumption that the Jews "must" choose wrongly again, "must" choose the "antichrist", is not well found in the Scripture. Instead, Paul writes volumes of the readmission of the Jews into their proper spiritual heritage once they accept Jesus Christ. The idea they would do so only shortly before Armageddon, is hypothesis and not proven by the prophets. Revelation alone, imo, does not give enough arguments in support of that hypothesis. There might be a time span between the readmission of the Jews and the Second Coming, long enough beyond our comprehension.

Why should the expected by them Messiah ben David be the Antichrist? Because it fits certain current theories how it should be? Where is it written in the entire Bible, that person to be the antichrist? Instead, he is the one who overcomes the evil lord(s), who restores already hit/partially destroyed Israel, etc.

We already had that in history for thousand plus years. We don't need a new building of a 3rd temple and new destruction of it, as modern preachers predict. The temple was already built and destroyed.

Messiah ben David is different personage from any of the 30+ names of the so called "antichrist" given in the Old Testament prophetic books. Let remember again that negative personage is called "antichrist" only in the letters of John and the Revelation. Not in the OT. Jesus Himself doesn't talk of ONE final antichrist, rather of many false messiahs and false christs. How modern preachers want to tie up that negative image of a final evil man called popularly "The Antichrist" with the all good divine appointed Messiah ben David, is incomprehensible for me.


I don't know if I will be alive long enough to see the arrival of Messiah ben David, even less the Second Coming of Jesus Christ that may take place after several more millenia. I hope however assistance will be given to our current world, to avoid the worst possible nightmares, that internet is full about.

Do you think the expected by the Jews "Messiah ben David" is "the Antichrist", why or why not?

Do you think Messiah ben David could be fulfilled only by the Second Coming of Jesus Christ? How about the pretty earthly and material attributes to the arrival of Messiah ben David, including the earthly restoration of the Jewish heritage? How about the "unknown timing" of the arrival of Jesus Christ? He may or may not come in our age, and we should know that well. Do you think we are before the Second Coming, precisely several years before, and how could you be sure of that?

I am sorry I would not be able to answer each post individually. Hope to make a second post sometimes later.

Well, here's what I know on the subject. According to the books of Malachi and Zechariah there was supposed to have been 3 to 4 messiahs. The Lord, his two branches or messengers, and Elijah the prophet. Assuming that the NT and Zechariah was correct one branch, the Lord, and Elijah have come and gone. There is still one branch to go. Something to consider about him is that Zechariah predicts that he builds a temple. And another thing. Revelation tells us that the witnesses in chapter 11 are the branches.

Rev. 11
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Zechariah 4
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

So to answer some of your questions, yes there seems to be some confusion as to the players in the Apocalypse. You have the branch who is going to rebuild a Jewish temple and then be one of the witnesses later.

Then you have the "Antichrist" who desecrates the temple.

And the Lord returns at the head of an army of saints.

So to answer your questions. I think Jesus Christ is the messiah ben David. The ben Joseph is the branch. And as far as the timing of their arrivals goes I would say wait for about 15 years. You should see both of them if you can make to 2028.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Interesting thread

S&F

I don't know if I will be alive long enough to see the arrival of Messiah ben David, even less the Second Coming of Jesus Christ that may take place after several more millenia.

I don't think the planet has another millenia left. I don't see even a century. Too much damage to earth without any repairs. Never has there been a time in history where people have become so self-centered and materialistic and lets not forget how morality has dropped across the planet. Middle class no longer exist in many countries.... either you are "the haves" or the "have nots".

The way technology is growing, one more world dictator should be able to finish the job that many have failed at. Why? Could not reach out to the all the masses like we can today.

Hang on to your hat.... I think we all are in for a ride and I believe it is not too far off.

FYI: I praise and worship the Jewish God. The Jewish Volk is God's chosen people and I will support them

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: 2012newstart

I don't think the planet has another millenia left. I don't see even a century. Too much damage to earth without any repairs

Earth is going to be just fine in 100 or 1000 years.

Humanity maybe not so much, but "Earth" doesn't give a shirt.

While I hypothesize on probabilities, I do not rule out the literal fulfillment of the Revelation in our days. I don't know if it is in our days. But if it is, as many modern prophets say, then we should be prepared for the worst without further delay. As Jonathan Cahn said, God is sovereign and He might or might not give this or that event to happen now, regardless of our expectations and all proof of the signs. Let not forget people like us expected those same events for some 1995 years starting immediately after the resurrection and ascension of Our Lord in a cloud.

I have to make that distinction that might not be clear enough in my previous posts. When Jesus Christ comes for a Second Time, and/or for the purpose of the Rapture, He would come ON A CLOUD. Being Resurrected, He doesn't need a space ship to move thru space as He wills.

We need spaceships if we are not resurrected at the time of the rapture.

If someone comes with a spaceship and pretends he IS Jesus Christ, he should be considered false christ.

If someone comes with a spaceship and says he is a RELATIVE of Jesus Christ (any relation) then he should be discerned based on what he says and does, whether or not that matches with the Sacred Scripture. It won't be isolated event, so the believers of Jesus Christ will have enough time and evidence to discern correctly. Let not forget, that in case of antichrist a Rapture event MUST precede his appearance, said a dozen times by Jesus himself in the Gospels. If such Rapture event is still missing, then may be we indeed encounter a relative of Jesus Christ, Enoch, Elijah or Melchizedek, sent in advance to prepare us. They may use spaceships because they are not resurrected. Nobody is/were before Jesus' resurrection.

I am ready to correct myself if evidence is given on contrary. What I will not give up though, is the idea of Rapture that is so clearly present in the Gospel that only a very stubborn and fanatically indoctrinated person would reject it, for his own peril.