Creepy Consumer electronic device released which alters thought patterns with electric shock

José Manuel Rodríguez Delgado (August 8, 1915 – September 15, 2011) was a Spanish professor of physiology at Yale University, famed for his research into mind control through electrical stimulation of regions in the brain. His work opened many doors to the understanding of brain activity with the use of electrical stimuli.

Jose Delgado - wikipedia

In 1965 he demonstrated mind control of a charging bull using electromagnetic implants.


José Delgado, implants, and electromagnetic mind control

This segment of "Dark Matters - Twisted but True" S02E10 has more about Jose's experiments.


José Manuel Rodriguez Delgado (Dark Matters: Twisted But True)

This research evolved as a search for something preferable to slicing into the brain with frontal lobotomies.

Egas Moniz developed the frontal lobotomy procedure and received the Nobel prize in 1949. More of his story is discussed in this "SciShow" segment.


The Worst Nobel Prize Ever Awarded

This new tech seems an extension of these ideas in friendly consumer form.

a reply to: joeraynor

So it is mini-electro-shock for the 21st century. Lovely. The art design strikes me as of the fascist-futurist school, and the images of the women make me think Stepford Wives. All wonderful associations, nicht wahr? Oy!

I will need to read more about the specifications. My main question is if multiple applications of the device to the head could be used to create a torture device, or if a series of three units attached to the head could induce various impressionable states as well as sheer terror. I am all for the scientific easing of human suffering and pain, but there is something a little off here in the presentation that has the Robot from Lost in Space entering stage left shouting 'Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!'

a reply to: SunnyDee

U.S. FDA approval only signifies the scratching of backs, the promise of jobs after working in government, and the delivery of unseen 'perks' to those in charge of the approval process. The better standard arises from asking "Is it medically approved for use in Sweden and Japan?"

I marvel at U.S. American trust of the FDA after so many U.S. Americans have died from medicines judged 'safe' by the FDA.

a reply to: Kapriti

Agreed. Coupled with a Google-Glass and smart wear measuring all your vitals .... it's all very scifi appeal.

And who could really say as to the long term effects of such manipulation of our emotions - especially as it is not regulated as a medical device.

I was going to include some history about D. Ewen Cameron in my previous post as well. Wiki tells us "he has been criticized for his administration, without informed consent, of disproportionately-intense electroshock therapy and experimental drugs, including '___', which rendered some patients permanently comatose. Some of this work took place in the context of the MKUltra mind control program."

The 2nd segment in this episode of "Dark Matters - Twisted but True" S02E02 reenacts his story.

Dark Matters Twisted But True S02E02

Apparently his experiments were not all that successful at producing the desired results - mind control or brainwashing - but were perhaps most effective as interrogation torture.

Scary ideas there about potential misuses of the device, Kapriti. All, indeed, quite possible.

a reply to: Kapriti

and that's a reasonable statement too.

FDA approved does not assure any measure of safety. However I would hope some sort of medical regulation would apply to a device intended to electrically mess with your psychology.

originally posted by: MsVen
In 1965 he demonstrated mind control of a charging bull using electromagnetic implants.

Not so much...bulls don't have minds to control the way the phrase is used for people.

What he DID was stimulate the bull's limbic system to produce docility using a wire. What he did NOT do was change the bull's political stance, or teach it to knit, or make it into a talking bull, or a bull-sassin etc.

It wasn't an implant, either, exactly, if "explant" were a common term I'd say that would be more appropriate. It was mostly external, given the guy had vacuum tubes to work with. Also the "electromagnetic" part. The only function for the "electromagnetic" part of it was to close a switch to apply current to the wire.

It's typical for dramatic programs to popularize issues by trying to connect them to memes the viewer is familiar with, but it is inaccurate and leads to misunderstanding.

originally posted by: lostgirl
- would you be limited to doing that with only your own personal devices, or could you patent your "new control software" and offer it for sale to the public? (I can imagine a lot of people being interested in utilizing the device without the company being able to track usage).

Do you know if there are companies gearing up with 'competing' devices?

I'm not sure you could patent it, I would assume you could not, as it doesn't really fit the sorts of things that are patentable. BUT, you could sell "permanent vibes" that don't run you $20-$60 a month and make your money there.

As far as competing devices, we've got several lying about in the form of TDCS devices, for the DC part. There's a couple of editions of SOTA's "Brain Tuner" in the bin as well. I use one of the TDCS rigs if I'm working on a certain math problem that's on my project list, and it definitely makes a difference although it's subtle. I used to use a BT-6 long ago when I got out of the Army for sleep disturbance problems. It worked in that it did something, but mostly it changed a really bad sleep paralysis thing into a very tiring hyperlucid dream thing, which wasn't a lot of improvement.

My TDCS rig is clunky and hard to use. There are simpler but less flexible ones, like foc.us. But they don't have the waveform flexibility the Thync device seems to possibly have...but they're not totally describing what it does, which is why I want to instrument a few of them and look for myself.

originally posted by: Kapriti

My main question is if multiple applications of the device to the head could be used to create a torture device...

My reaction would be...'Why bother?' What's the utility of taking an off the shelf mood altering device and trying to make it into a torture device? There are a lot of very good torture devices off the shelf, if you will, that work a lot better and are much more intimidating.

I mean, what would scare you more, a harsh Thync session, or a soldering iron up the bum hooked to a variac?

...or if a series of three units attached to the head could induce various impressionable states as well as sheer terror.

Flowing small currents across your head is a very broad brush, incapable of pinpoint effects like that.

Now, the original Thync design, maybe.

I do have to admit, the first time I saw the Thync website and saw the photo in the OP, I looked at this:



and saw this:



I'm not sure if they were trying to find a model that looked like the lovechild of Kes and 7/9, but the similarity is striking.

I read an article a while back that electric stimulation of the brain can make people better at math. I sure could have used a gadget that did that back in school...

a reply to: Bedlam

Absolutely I agree with that. Delgado was simply interrupting the motor functions - preventing the bull from acting on what he still wanted to do. He did not remove the aggressive instinct of the animal.

Aside from Delgado's initial ideas for application in mental-health (controlling epileptic seizures or behavioral disturbances), I'm not sure the goal of "mind control" necessarily equates to "change" of the personal opinions/desires/skills of the subject ... but rather to artificially "control" the subject against their will - as he did with the bull (or maybe through conditioning) - or without their knowledge.

As to the implants and electromagnetism, I'll admit I'm not an expert about the technicalities of such things, so I'll leave it to Delgado to describe his "stimoceivers" and their "implant"/"explant" properties. At the bottom of this page Delgado says his next step was to develop an entirely subcutaneous stimoceiver. I have no idea if he ever did.

Jose Delgado's "Physical Control of the Mind"

Most people¹ nowadays are 'iLobotomised' anyway; so, it's a much of a muchness if the process is accelerated through direct electrical input.

'The Kardashians', junk foods, sugar addiction, gambling, sport, pollution, GREED... have all conspired to render most the planet a horde of shambling deadites prime for slaughter. Why wait for "A.I." to clear out the dead wood if we can expidite the process ourselves?

¹ Term use in a notional sense only.

originally posted by: MsVen

I'm not sure the goal of "mind control" necessarily equates to "change" of the personal opinions/desires/skills of the subject ... but rather to artificially "control" the subject against their will...

I'd say changing the opinions and desires of the subject to what YOU want is the very definition of controlling them. Unless you're wanting to make them a teleautomaton like Spock in that 'brain...what is brain' episode.

However, that's godawfully hard, as the agency found out back during the MK thing. No reasonable application of external influence or drugs did the trick, even carried all the way to the Cameron limit. Gottlieb was sort of onto the approach I suspect they investigated after MK, but you don't hear about that part of it in print much.

Minds are real complex. Sticking wires in your head provides a morbidly interesting set of things you can do to/for subjects, but quite a lot of them are extremely useless, the procedure is complex, invasive, and obvious, and generally has long term issues.

FWIW, there are atlases of various larger mammals showing what happens for electrode placement, stimulation levels and what not that are quite detailed. By far, 'nothing' leads the pack, with 'seize' and 'play dead' close runners up. It's easy to produce passivity by just disrupting the limbic system, or rage. But "take this gun and go shoot this candidate" in a clever and complex way ala The Manchurian Candidate is a very advanced behavior that doesn't have a specific brain center.

My personal favorite was the cat with the off switch, it acted just like a regular cat until you took the clip off its tail, then it went down in a heap. You could toss the cat on a bookshelf and it would sleep endlessly unless you woke it for maintenance. The behavioral psych guys had one they'd made for demos. But it's probably the most "normal" thing in the book. I'm not sure what good pissed-off cat or cat that can't see vertical lines does you in terms of "mind control".

As to the implants and electromagnetism, I'll admit I'm not an expert about the technicalities of such things, so I'll leave it to Delgado to describe his "stimoceivers" and their "implant"/"explant" properties. At the bottom of this page Delgado says his next step was to develop an entirely subcutaneous stimoceiver. I have no idea if he ever did.

I suspect he never managed it, and when he wrote that he didn't know what he was getting into. It is extremely difficult to place a radio receiver inside a live animal and have it work acceptably, which is why no one tries, much. Being a biologist, I doubt he had a lot of physics background.

I wonder if it's going to become as normal as mobile phones to see people with these devices affixed to their foreheads, blank tranquil expressions worn on their vacant faces. Drug, micro-electro-shocked obedient subservient populace "corrected" for any non-approved thought process with a gentle jolt to the grey matter. The icing on the cake? Successful "marketing" (propaganda) influences people to readily shell out their slave wages to purchase the hardware for themselves.

Sounds like the film Equilibrium on steroids.
I wonder what would happen to someone that is prone to seizures.
Besides, if I want to alter my mood I will see the doc and up my meds.
It's all good....

a reply to: Bedlam

The TRAUMA stuff works to make alters JUST fine.
I have MET some people like that who were programed by cults.

a reply to: joeraynor

really creepy...
where's finished the good old spliff for chilling?

and a cupple of coffee or ginseng for energy???

Those nasty postings will only prove the truth of your own character or lack thereof.
For most entrepreneurs taking a company public would be enough of an accomplishment for one year but not for Cameron Chell. Please take a long serious look at what you accomplish with these seemingly senseless character attacks on people who are just trying to work for the good and safety of their own community.