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Dajjal is Dead?

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posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 05:35 AM
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Latest: Mullah Omar, sometimes linked to the Hadith prophecies of the one eyed «Dajjal» («...he is one-eyed, and God isn't one-eyed...»), the Muslim antichrist and leader of Taliban, is dead. And he has been dead for years according to Afghan gov. sources. Finally.



From Wikipedia (link below):

Al-Masih ad-Dajjal (Arabic: المسيح الدجّال‎ Al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjāl, "the false messiah"), is an evil figure in Islamic eschatology.[1] He is to appear pretending to be the Masih (i.e. the Messiah) at a time in the future, before Yawm al-Qiyamah (Day of Resurrection), and is comparable to the Antichrist and Armilus in Christian and medieval Jewish eschatology, respectively.


From BBC (link below):

The reclusive leader [Mullah Omar] died two to three years ago, Afghan government and intelligence sources said. No further details were released.


In the news ==> www.bbc.com...
Background ==> en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 29-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: image




posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

OMG

when did Obama die ?

Can anyone confirm this !




posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 05:42 AM
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I fail to see what this has to do with religion. Some people claim Obama is the Antichrist too, but that doesn't make it so.



posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 05:49 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

lol just because he has one eye and beard, and linked to Islam...?

Nah, there are more requirement to fit the description, according to Islam



posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Yes, that, and William Wallace is seven feet tall and can shoot fireballs from his arse....

Mullah Omar fits the jacket of any antichrist I've heard of. Next thing, he'll come back from the dead, again, that'd be a bloody miracle, eh? A self proclaimed king of Islam providing a kind of Islam that sanctions the killing of schoolchildren and forcing his people to live in poverty and shackles. A blasphemer of rank and an enemy of all sound justice. That's one towel-head I won't be missing. An antichrist is an illegitimate religious king. He is believed to be the founder of what later became Al Qaida Iraq which in turn developed into ISIL and their caliphate. Mulla Omar was an official Emir (king) and as Wikipedia writes, he «was the supreme commander and the spiritual leader of the Taliban. He was Afghanistan's 11th head of state from 1996 to late 2001, under the official title "Head of the Supreme Council"».
edit on 29-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
He is believed to be the founder of what later became Al Qaida Iraq which in turn developed into ISIL and their caliphate.




You are confusing Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi of Jordanian descent with Mullah Mohammad Omar of Afghani descent. Mullah Omar of the Taliban had nothing to do with Al-Qaida in Iraq.



posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: r0xor

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
He is believed to be the founder of what later became Al Qaida Iraq which in turn developed into ISIL and their caliphate.




You are confusing Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi of Jordanian descent with Mullah Mohammad Omar of Afghani descent. Mullah Omar of the Taliban had nothing to do with Al-Qaida in Iraq.


Mullah Omar housed and educated many prominent Al-Qaida members and trained them for battle during the Soviet-Afghan war, among them, Al-Zarqawi and Osama Bin Laden, for many years, long before the 2001 terror attacks. Al-Zarqawi was the next-in-line-beta-dog «prince» of Osama Bin Laden. It all started in the Afghan mountains in the 80's, during the Soviet occupation. Ironically USA provided them with surface to air missile systems (ex. Robot-70) and other advanced weaponry and training.
edit on 29-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Mullah Omar housed and educated many prominent Al-Qaida members and trained them for battle during the Soviet-Afghan war, among them, Al-Zarqawi and Osama Bin Laden, for many years, long before the 2001 terror attacks. Al-Zarqawi was the next-in-line-beta-dog «prince» of Osama Bin Laden. It all started in the Afghan mountains in the 80's, during the Soviet occupation. Ironically USA provided them with surface to air missile systems (ex. Robot-70) and other advanced weaponry and training.


I read up a little, perhaps you are right about some of that.

If that's the case, there's a bigger rift between ISIS and Al-Qaida than even the media leads on, because, that would mean the traditional islamic terrorist groups are at de facto war with ISIS.

Clearly, if the goal was shared aims, Al-Qaida, Al-Shabaab, and the Taliban and a bunch of others could all swear allegiance to ISIS, thereby unifying the front and combining resources to devastating effect.

There must be an underlying reason why they refuse to do so.




posted on Jul, 29 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: r0xor

Well, you'll have to make a time-line, and most, or all, of these different groups you mention are branches on the Taliban/Al-Qaida stem, that in turn developed from the Mujjahedin freedom-fighters. First there was the Mujjahedin with Taliban being a sort of political leg, fighting against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan that attracted tens of thousands of militant Muslims from all over the Muslim world, from different sectarian groups. Then Al-Qaida, focusing mainly on training and education, sprung out of that taking responsibility for several major sabotage operations, including the 2001 WTC attacks.

In Afghanistan Al-Qaida funded by mostly Saudi emirs, had focused on weapons and tactics training and educating operatives. These operatives then left these training camps in Afghanistan/Pakistan and typically established small independent terror-cells around the globe basing their strategies on the Al-Qaida methodology they'd learned in Pakistani and Afghan training camps. Others established local franchises of the more political kind, like Al-Qaida Iraq that later became ISIL, and Al-Shabab (I call them Al-Kebab), the East African wing of Al-Qaida.

Mainly Salafist and Sunnis, religious and sectarian divides explain most of the fragmentation and division. They all seem to share the same goal, to work towards establishing the kind of religious caliphate like ISIL's «Islamic State» (abbreviated IS, I don't use the term IS, since that in effect implies agreeing there exists an Islamic caliphate in the first place, which I don't buy into), but internal struggles and divisions based on mostly religious and sectarian disagreements, as well as dollars and fame, has made this virtually impossible. Even ISIL struggle to keep their own leaders in agreement.

This whole conglomerate of Taliban/Al-Qaida offspring is a story of great internal fragmentation, and this fragmentation has become part of their overlying business-model since CIA infiltrates these groups, leaving millions of dollars in bribes as means for a sort of «Divide and Conquer» tactic from the US side, but instead of breaking these organisations up, USA's economic hitmen have provided the greatest sources of income for these groups, matching and surpassing even the funding from Saudi princes. If they need more money, all they have to do is make another division, send out some sucker with a semtex suit and bingo, millions of US taxpayers' dollars. You just can't use ancient Roman techniques against the only power that proved to dismantle and destroy Roman hegemony in the Middle East.

Any fool should know, it's pointless to make business with Arabs, they'll win and end up with all the money and your shirt anyhow. And afterwards you'll even say thank you. Those Jedi tricks simply don't work on Muslims. The West should read up on the ancient Islamic military order of the Assassins, and their «Old Man of the Mountain» cult. That's the key to destroy ISIL and Islamic extremism. You'll need mafia/club methods against these Muslim bleeders. And an ideology beyond beer and ladies. If you ask me, the West should hire 1%ers using mafia methods, and send them down there, with prospects of legal amnesty and taking over opium and cannabis production down there, and finally end the war on drugs AND terror all in one smack. Literally.
edit on 29-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 01:12 AM
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Reposed from the other thread, but important to be aware of....

Now we have the enzyme to produce opiate from a yeast. It's a huge gamechanger, now for governments who control it, but when the cat is out of the bag, wow.

I wonder if foreknowledge of this discovery played a role in the allied "withdraw"? (pun not intended, but yeah)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Yes, that, and William Wallace is seven feet tall and can shoot fireballs from his arse....

Mullah Omar fits the jacket of any antichrist I've heard of. Next thing, he'll come back from the dead, again, that'd be a bloody miracle, eh? A self proclaimed king of Islam providing a kind of Islam that sanctions the killing of schoolchildren and forcing his people to live in poverty and shackles. A blasphemer of rank and an enemy of all sound justice. That's one towel-head I won't be missing. An antichrist is an illegitimate religious king. He is believed to be the founder of what later became Al Qaida Iraq which in turn developed into ISIL and their caliphate. Mulla Omar was an official Emir (king) and as Wikipedia writes, he «was the supreme commander and the spiritual leader of the Taliban. He was Afghanistan's 11th head of state from 1996 to late 2001, under the official title "Head of the Supreme Council"».


But you did not understand my post, let me clarify - This man does not fit the description of the Anti-Christ according to ISLAM. In Islam there are clear descriptions given in hadeeths, so that you can look for the signs.

Also - In Islam according to various authentic hadeeths, there are certain events that take place before, around the time, and after the appearance of the Dajjal.

E.g. One of the descriptions is that the Dajjal will have Kaffir (disbeliver) easily distinguishable on his forehead



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Yes, that, and William Wallace is seven feet tall and can shoot fireballs from his arse....

Mullah Omar fits the jacket of any antichrist I've heard of. Next thing, he'll come back from the dead, again, that'd be a bloody miracle, eh? A self proclaimed king of Islam providing a kind of Islam that sanctions the killing of schoolchildren and forcing his people to live in poverty and shackles. A blasphemer of rank and an enemy of all sound justice. That's one towel-head I won't be missing. An antichrist is an illegitimate religious king. He is believed to be the founder of what later became Al Qaida Iraq which in turn developed into ISIL and their caliphate. Mulla Omar was an official Emir (king) and as Wikipedia writes, he «was the supreme commander and the spiritual leader of the Taliban. He was Afghanistan's 11th head of state from 1996 to late 2001, under the official title "Head of the Supreme Council"».


It is really weird that you researched all of that without even looking to what Islam says about the Dajjal? Had you researched what Quran and Hadeeths say about the description of Dajjal it would have cleared so many things up for you.

I can't speak whether this man fits the description of the Anti-christ for other religions or groups, but In Islam there is quite a bit of information on the subject and majority of Muslims are well aware of Dajjal, his story, his traits and description etc..

So please do not impose your own beliefs of what or who the antichrist with regards to Islam.. it will not sit well with the majority of Muslims.



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Did you notice the question mark in the title of the thread? I don't believe in the Dajjal or the Antichrist for that matter, but I take notice that many do, and seeing how the Sunnis have developed this Dajjal character based on extra-koranic additions and pervasions, and also how the Christian Antichrist character is a product of later Christian additions to the Bible, well, perhaps you didn't understand my question? Or the first words of the post you reply to here. Part of my intention with this thread was to show how there are "truly holy books" and there are sectarian additions made after these books were made or gathered.

Dajjal isn't even mentioned in the Koran, just like the Antichrist is absent in the Bible, but that doesn't stop Muslims and Christians from having quite the list of criteria for these "demonic kings". Certain traditions within Islam say that Dajjal is a Jew (naturally), has red hair (?), that he has one eye (which apparently is ungodly), and that he has superb hearing (!), how he rides a white donkey and tries to enter Mecca without succeeding, that he will start his ministry by entering Syria from the south and bring about the war we now see in Syria nowdays, a war which according to the same traditions will rage until Jesus and Muhammed return and the Mahdi emerges.
edit on 30-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: ISeekTruth101



Did you notice the question mark in the title of the thread? I don't believe in the Dajjal or the Antichrist for that matter, but I take notice that many do,


I did take notice, and this is what I am saying - you mentioned the word Dajjal - this is the anti-christ in Islam. Now had you done your homework on the description of the Dajjal according to the Quran and Hadeeths, you would realise that this man does not fit the descriptions given. You clearly posted this in the religious section, not general chat section so Im assuming you are being serious with your post in suggesting that man is the Dajjal.



Part of my intention with this thread was to show how there are "truly holy books" and there are sectarian additions made after these books were made or gathered.


You are blowing my mind now, in no way was this clear at all - there is already established information through authentic hadeeths that cover information on the Dajjal in detail with regards to mainstream Islam. Whether that sits well with you with regards to belief doesnt matter - if your going to talk about the Dajjal and his description - at least get it right.



Dajjal isn't even mentioned in the Koran, just like the Antichrist is absent in the Bible, but that doesn't stop Muslims and Christians from having quite the list of criteria for these "demonic kings".


That is fine, most of the information I know about Dajjal is obtained from hadeeths, and hadeeths are a sunnah meaning Muslims must believe in information they contain as long as they don't contradict information in the Quran. So I don't understand what your issue is - whether you are disputing the idea of Dajjal in general or in regards to the Dajjal existing as a concept in Islam? Because I can assure the latter is firmly established according to authentic hadeeths.




Certain traditions within Islam say that Dajjal is a Jew (naturally), has red hair (?), that he has one eye (which apparently is ungodly), and that he has superb hearing (!), how he rides a white donkey and tries to enter Mecca without succeeding, that he will start his ministry by entering Syria from the south and bring about the war we now see in Syria nowdays, a war which according to the same traditions will rage until Jesus and Muhammed return and the Mahdi emerges.



Well you are free to conduct your own research online about who the Dajjal is according to authentic islamic information - there is a vast amount of resources that will point you in the right direction - it is upto you to verify if the information about Dajjal is authentic or not based on it's source, there established books in Islam that contain authentic hadeeths (Saheeh Muslim, Saheeh Bhukari etc.), you can start there.

Now my gripe is that all you mentioned in the OP was that this man had one eye and was affiliated with the Taliban? But you didn't address all the points you just mentioned on Islamic information about the description and foretelling of Dajjal - for example:

Sahih Muslim > The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said
ajjal is blind of one eye and there is written between his eyes the word" Kafir". He then spelled the word as k. f. r., which every Muslim would be able to read.
(Sahih Bukhari English reference : Book 41, Hadith 7009;

This is authentic hadeeth - does this man have such notation between his eyes? This is the angle you should have come in with your post.. i.e. He fits this and this and this description, and this and this event has taken place.
edit on 30-7-2015 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-7-2015 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'm not trying to be rude to you or anything, I'm just saying that there is established and authentic islamic information about the fortelling and description of Dajjal in Islam. And what you have provided is not enough to satisfy the description, so for you to imply with a question mark if Dajjal is dead? No, you haven't shown anything convincing enough to suggest this man is a candidate for Dajjal according to Islam.

Many times I have seen personally, and you will find other instances of people in Islamic settings (conferences, talks etc) claiming to be such and such, like the Mahdi for example (if you don't know who this is, He's is like a savior to fix the world in Islam) and when the person claiming to be this savior is asked why he thinks so, he says because I can speak arabic, and the Mahdi is foretold to speak arabic... (that's in a youtube video actually)

See? So just because he speaks arabic like millions of other people, that supposedly make's him a candidate, he just fits one tiny criteria and even then he could only make a greeting in arabic not actually conversate!! Even non-arabs can do that.

Second Point, any Muslim that brings forth certain information pertaining to Islam and claiming it to be authentic will ALWAYS be asked for the source! Yes, Muslim can't just blindly believe any Islamic info they hear or read to be authentic , you gotta check that it's real and supported by Quran or Hadeeths.

So as we are discussing the Antichrist according to Islam, there is authentic info on Dajjal out there, and it is pretty detailed, many requirement to fit the description are needed...
edit on 30-7-2015 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: ISeekTruth101



Did you notice the question mark in the title of the thread? I don't believe in the Dajjal or the Antichrist for that matter, but I take notice that many do,


I did take notice, and this is what I am saying - you mentioned the word Dajjal - this is the anti-christ in Islam.


I say in the OP that Mullah Omar has sometimes been linked to the Dajjal character, and in the title I indirectly ask you whether he'd fit the role, that's why the I styled the title as a question, it's no claim, just a short way of asking a lot of questions in one single one. I could have asked whether Mullah Omar would fit the description separately, together with plenty other questions I would have to add to the title, well, I am rather rational, and there are limits to how long a title can be here. Later in the thread I explain how I consider the Koran a holy book, but that I consider Hadith as human-made additions («stones added to the burden»). I say that to me personally, Mullah Omar fits any "Antichrist" role I've heard of. Speaking primarily as an amateur linguist, when I refer to an «anti-christ», or «pseudo-king» the term primarily means simply «a bad king», "Dajjal" means Deceiving in Arabic, "Mashi" means King/Messiah, put together certain Muslim traditions also speaks of this «bad unworthy king». Mullah Omar sanctioned the killing of little girls, and was king/emir (of Afghanistan). That's a Bad King and the works of an antichrist, and I am asking whether he was bad enough to be THE «Antichrist», «The Dajjal.» See the difference?


Now had you done your homework on the description of the Dajjal according to the Quran


He isn't mentioned there as far as I know.


and Hadeeths, you would realise that this man does not fit the descriptions given. You clearly posted this in the religious section, not general chat section so Im assuming you are being serious with your post in suggesting that man is the Dajjal.



Part of my intention with this thread was to show how there are "truly holy books" and there are sectarian additions made after these books were made or gathered.


You are blowing my mind now, in no way was this clear at all - there is already established information through authentic hadeeths that cover information on the Dajjal in detail with regards to mainstream Islam. Whether that sits well with you with regards to belief doesnt matter - if your going to talk about the Dajjal and his description - at least get it right.


Did the Arch Angel Gabriel or any other angel of God dictate the Hadith? Aren't the Hadith later manmade additions to the Koran? And. In authentic, what do you mean?




Dajjal isn't even mentioned in the Koran, just like the Antichrist is absent in the Bible, but that doesn't stop Muslims and Christians from having quite the list of criteria for these "demonic kings".


That is fine, most of the information I know about Dajjal is obtained from hadeeths, and hadeeths are a sunnah meaning Muslims must believe in information they contain as long as they don't contradict information in the Quran. So I don't understand what your issue is - whether you are disputing the idea of Dajjal in general or in regards to the Dajjal existing as a concept in Islam? Because I can assure the latter is firmly established according to authentic hadeeths.



Did Muhammed or Gabriel order this, or was it later sectarian and very much human men of the clergy who made these doctrines?





Certain traditions within Islam say that Dajjal is a Jew (naturally), has red hair (?), that he has one eye (which apparently is ungodly), and that he has superb hearing (!), how he rides a white donkey and tries to enter Mecca without succeeding, that he will start his ministry by entering Syria from the south and bring about the war we now see in Syria nowdays, a war which according to the same traditions will rage until Jesus and Muhammed return and the Mahdi emerges.



Well you are free to conduct your own research online about who the Dajjal is according to authentic islamic information - there is a vast amount of resources that will point you in the right direction - it is upto you to verify if the information about Dajjal is authentic or not based on it's source, there established books in Islam that contain authentic hadeeths (Saheeh Muslim, Saheeh Bhukari etc.), you can start there.


Honestly, I don't know Arabic well enough to read the Koran or the other books of Islam the way they're supposed to be read, everything I know about Islam, I have from the media, internet and a few muslims I've had the pleasure to meet and befriend during my life. I am merely asking here on a conspiracy theory forum whether this man fits the deal, and all you can muster is to tell me you know it all, and I have to do my own research before asking any questions about this mess.

Now, if I had known the answer to my question already, then my question would likely be rhetorical. I post an honest question, not really a rhetorical one, I indirectly ask people like you what you know about this and perhaps you could educate me by sharing your knowledge so to speak. Instead I'm getting patronised? Please, unless you are able or prepared to answer the question, please don't bother wasting my time.


Now my gripe is that all you mentioned in the OP was that this man had one eye and was affiliated with the Taliban? But you didn't address all the points you just mentioned on Islamic information about the description and foretelling of Dajjal - for example:

Sahih Muslim > The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said
ajjal is blind of one eye and there is written between his eyes the word" Kafir". He then spelled the word as k. f. r., which every Muslim would be able to read.
(Sahih Bukhari English reference : Book 41, Hadith 7009;

This is authentic hadeeth - does this man have such notation between his eyes? This is the angle you should have come in with your post.. i.e. He fits this and this and this description, and this and this event has taken place.


Thanks for sharing. Could you please explain to me the difference between the different books within Islam (Shia and Sunni respectively), and what it takes for a book to become a holy book, what the criteria are for considering authentic what appears to be nothing but sectarian religious doctrine and ancient hearsay put together in 9th and 10th cc. AD/CE. It would be relevant to better understand your position and would be interesting to learn more about the different traditions and ways within islam.

And please, let's be civil. I obviously stepped on your toes somehow here. I may regret that.
edit on 30-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Thank you for a civil approach
Much appreciated


A little background on the masih/messiah/christ element involved with the Dajjal, and how he deceives the House of David since he is supposed to be the Antichrist.

Now, putting together some of these bits of information provided, and given the Hadiths are genuine prophetic words of God, please follow me a bit further. Just like Christianity in general, the Qumran community (DSS) and the Gnostics— Islam have prophecies containing words that there will rise an evil king in the end times, and as far as I can understand, according to Islam this evil king will be killed by the Mahdi while there is a war raging in Syria. We must always keep in mind that these hadiths are about people living hundreds of years after the prophet Muhammed lived, and more than 1000 years before the events prophesied would happen— and their words are basically as good as yours and mine. They were possibly better men than most of us, but they were humans referring to things that happened several centuries before they were even born. Anyway, my point is that there is bound to be errors in the material, hence my reference to William Wallace aka Braveheart in the movie carrying that very name. Anyway, we must assume that not everything that is written about this antichrist will turn out to be true.

Anyway. Among other things, the Dajjal is said to be a Masih, suggesting he is some kind of Jewish king, or rather an enemy of or deceiver to the house of David.

For starters. The first Jewish messiah (christ) was king David. His nemesis was Saul who was the first antichrist (anti-messiah). In the description of Saul in the Bible— «From his shoulders upward he was taller than any of the people.» (1Sam 9:2). Much can be said about the anti-king Saul that could also be said about Mullah Omar in addition to his height. But at the same time, Saul had both his eyes for instance, so it's back to what you quite correctly address, that there are many criteria given in scripture. But Saul isn't Mullah Omar of course, however Saul is the first antichrist of the bible. Below you can see a list of the christs (the just messiahs) and antichrists (the unjust messiahs) of Israel and Judah recorded in the OT. As you see most messiahs that have ruled the Land have been pretty much bad, wicked, evil and horrible. The lists of calamities and all sorts of evil these kings were able to muster are long, so the idea of an evil messiah isn't an unlikely one.

www.biblestudy.org... PS: I don't necessarily adhere to whatever they claim on that site, but accompanying each king in the four books of Kings Chronicles in the OT, there is a verdict, and as far as I can see the «Rating» column to the far right corresponds to these verdicts, typically written along the lines of:

«And he did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that David his father had done» 2 Chronicles 29:2
— or:
«He also walked in the way of the house of Ahab and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD» 2 Kings 8:27
edit on 30-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Let me first start by stating that I am by no means a know it all. In fact my knowledge on Hadeeths and Islamic studies is vastly weak compared to many, many others that could better answer your questions. I am merely a student of Islam, and will only share what I have come across in my research and hope that it benefits the questions you ask. Furthermore I can only speak on Sunnah and not Shia schools of thought.

Okay so as you might already know Hadeeths are the collections of the reports purporting to quote what the Islamic prophet Muhammad said on any matter. In Sunni (mainstream) Islam there are a few books that contain hadeeths compiled by a few authors that are regarded as scholars/imams with a high status in Islam. Unlike the Quran itself, which was compiled under the official direction of the early Islamic State in Madinah, hadeeths were not compiled by a central authority and as you correctly stated the process of compilation began generations after the death of Muhammad (PBUH). You are also correct in saying that they were disputed, in recent history some hadiths from authentic collections have been contested by non-Muslim works to be invented or forged to serve some political gains.

Hadith were evaluated and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries. I think it worth mentioning that during the times of Prophet Muhammad, among the people of the Arabian Peninsula poetry was quite widespread, men would gather and recite poetry as a form of conveying philosophy and as such these Arabs had good memory. The Quran was revealed through revelation and preserved through recitation; the reciting of Quran propagated among the companions of the prophet throughout the community as Arabs were use to memorizing (as they did with poetry). I feel in my opinion this should add some weight in regards to the credibility of hadeeths as being reasonably accurate narrations of the Prophet. Many scholars today that study hadeeths will openly tell you which ones are weakish and which ones are higher in credibility as they were narrated by more credible individuals (those closer to the Prophet himself by acquaintance - like his wife or best friend).

Why do we regard hadeeths as holy? Well first of, yes they are the word of manI completely agree with you and the Quran is the definitive source when it comes to Islamic guidance as Muslims believe it to be the word of God, and thus cannot possibly contain contradictions – but the Quran itself bestows many honours on Muhammad (PBUH) as the among the noblest of mankind, and to follow his Sunnah i.e. his teachings and his practices and as such we pay strict attention to how Muhammad (PBUH) lived his life, and how he conducted himself as he is clearly the role model for every Muslim:

"Verily in the messenger of Allah you have a good example for him who looks unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Quran)

All verses in the Quran that command belief in, obedience to, conformity with and submission to the Holy Prophet are unambiguously clear. And thus Muslims believe he had true, innate knowledge given to him by God by through the Angel Gabriel. It this way we believe that knowledge he possessed and spoke of is holy, which was later collected into the six books of authentic hadeeth: see en.wikipedia.org... for more information.

The Prophet spoke of many things in his many conversations with his companions, him being close to God and the Angel Gabriel he would no doubt have had various information revealed to him besides Quranic verses. In the Quran it states that you must follow Gods instructions above all, after this you follow the Sunnah (ways of the Prophet - Hadeeths) where it does not contradict the Quran, and after this you follow scholars among the peoples high in knowledge as long as they do not contradict the Quran or the Sunnah. So this is the chain of priority if you will, in regards to Islamic guidance:

‘’O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).’’

Hadiths are still regarded by traditional Islamic schools of jurisprudence as important tools for understanding the Quran and in matters of jurisprudence These works are referred to in matters of Islamic law and history to this day.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Now according to authentic hadeeths, this Antichrist (Dajjal) in Islam will do remarkable feats as he will be helped by demonic minions or such (recalling from my own memory here) helping him accomplish supernatural acts in a bid to win over those weak in faith or establishing dominion over mankind, and God will let him do his 'thing' to separate the believers from the disbelievers but as told by Hadeeths, the Prophet has given us clear instructions on how to handle the situation. For starters Dajjal’s appeal and his power will appear so great that even some of the truest believers can fall into the trap of believing he could be God, as Dajjal will assert himself to be God by proving it with practical demonstrations like splitting a man in half, and bringing him back together (life) and then asking the man how can you deny my divinity after this feat? Or he will say something to that effect (again I'm recalling from memory)

Therefore the Prophet has instructed the believers to stay as far away as possible from Dajjal, and not to think that because you feel you strong high in faith you will be able to repel the appeal of the Dajjal.

Dajjal’s appearance in the world is foretold to coincide with a series of events that must first take place, before, and then after his demise. These are referred to as the Minor and Major signs before the Day of Judgment, and depict some pretty notable (hard to miss) events, for starters it is established that there will be a second coming of Christ as it is foretold in Christian scriptures, and he will be the one to defeat Dajjal. So again that is an event that is pretty hard to miss -

Imam Tirmidhi(d.279/857) has narrated that the prophet Muhammad said,

"Son of Maryam (Mary) will kill the Dajjal at the door of LUD." Imam Tirmidhi (d.279/857) then said "This is an authentic Hadith."
Source: www.inter-islam.org...

**Tirmidhi is the author of one of the six books of authentic hadeeth that exist in Sunni Islam.

So in light of the points I have just raised, briefly as it were, I find it truly peculiar that Mullah Omar could be linked to the Dajjal? I mean Afghanistan is supposedly 80-90% Sunni by population right? And as I have just stated authentic hadeeths of the Sunnah, who exactly is making this link? If it is non-muslims I can understand that, without even knowing what the non-muslims description of an antichrist is. But in Sunni (mainstream) Islam, Mullah Omar is a far cry from fitting the description of the Dajjal.

So to conclude, Islam does provide a wealth of information on the topics and matters discussed.

In regards to your other question on the authenticity of non-quranic texts in Islam being the word of man and thus not holy (open to refutations) - it is stated by God himself in the Quran that we should follow the ways of the Prophet and his teachings and thus any information transmitted by him, yes he was a man, but Muslims believe him to be the best of mankind:

“Had not the Grace of Allaah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allaah has sent down to you the book (the Qur’aan), and Al‑Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things, i.e. the Prophet’s Sunnah — legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allaah unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم)”

The Prophets teachings were captured and recorded through the narrations in the Hadeeths that Muslims believe to be done to the best of the ability of the Imam’s (authors) that are regarded to be high in eminence, and so Muslims always say God knows best i.e. this means that the sincere attempt to follow authentic Islamic guidance from such sources is made as long as they don’t contradict the Quran, and God instructed us to follow the ways of the Prophet and it is believed that the narrations we have in the hadeeths closely match those ways base don the works of the six Imams (Authors).

I completely understand your doubts in following hadeeths, and them being the word of man, but in my personal opinion we look and hadeeths are to be analysed, reflected and compared with the Quran (to find any contradictions) .
From here it is hoped that benefit can be derived from them and trust in God is placed that we would not be judge us harshly as a sincere attempt is made on our behalf to seek and adhere to the right knowledge in the aim of Perfecting our devotion to God in addition to the Quran.

Hadeeths on the Dajjal provide us with beneficial information for those believers who will exist in those end times.

Summary

If Muslims follow the Quran, they will have more or less enough to go by. If they get stuck and don't know what to do, the hadiths can help them out. If a Muslim is told something is part of Islam and it doesn't sound valid, they should ask where they got it from. If the teller can't provide a quote, the information should be ignored. If information is quoted in the Quran, look it up. If it is quoted in a hadith, look it up when you have time, but don't worry as much about it - as the Quran is first and foremost.

Sorry for writing so much, and perhaps boring you!

Further reading (I don’t advocate these websites just sharing):

What about those who follow Quran only
islamqa.info...

Can the Hadeeths be trusted?
islamqa.info...

Should Muslims follow the God's teachings only?.. Or the Prophet as well?
www.quran-islam.org...(P1245).html



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
...If information is quoted in the Quran, look it up. If it is quoted in a hadith, look it up when you have time, but don't worry as much about it - as the Quran is first and foremost.


Then that's settled. Thanks.

I compare the Islamic tradition of Hadith to the Hebrew Talmud tradition and the Christian Gnostic tradition, and I consider it more to be signs of fragmentation (and somehow seems to develop about 300 years after these traditions are supposed to have originated: 300 years after the Babylonian captivity, Talmud. 300 years after Jesus, Gnosticism. 300 years after Muhammed, Hadith. Peculiar...), even though many or even most of these sayings contained in these traditions, may indeed be genuine and serve as great sources for righteousness and wisdom, and I am aware of the qualities of the old systems for memorisation and reciting texts correctly with few or no errors over several generations— but let's be rational, the prophet was a rock-star, and just as Jesus showed us by handing out his flesh like bread and his blood like wine, everyone wants a bite of you when you are elevated above the others, they drink your blood as if it was water or wine— and much has been said and written about him and much has been attributed to the good lord, that is hardly genuine. These later wisdom traditions often contain material that would better be described as pseudepigrapha, or, wisdom attributed to-, or written in honor to certain men of God.


Sorry for writing so much, and perhaps boring you!


Not at all, I read your replies here with great joy. And I apologise for being arrogant, you're a good guy.

I find this verse here from John 21:25 fitting:


Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

edit on 31-7-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: ex quote



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