T o know what to do, and not do it/it's sin .

We are born with a conscience; but we are born selfish and controled by selfish lusts!

Christ said to first judge ourselves, to refrain judgeing others, unless it be church matters!

If we follow Christ's example, and accept His transforming Spirit into our lives, we can by obedience to the truth, set an example for others; that they may also judge themselves!

If Christ is the ultimate light and truth, and we die to our own desires so that He might shine through us . Then it is possible others will come to Him, and follow Him, to the way of living, that causes them to want to live in truth , light ,and obediece by Love, and believe in eternal salvation though Christ.

Just pointing out faults and judging people leads to strife, but to give them the key to eternal life and truth, gives the the hope and faith by which to live a meaningful life!

It's important to judge the happenings in the church by the guideline of the bible, and since this is not done much today the church is seen as hypocrites .
Jugdement will begin with the church, and God will judge those outside the church.

It is eveident that few will die to their own desires in this life to seek the redeemer with a whole heart in obedience; so unfortunately many will follow their own way, and their judgement of their own life will convict them!

If the God of this universe, Jesus Christ calls you, He will lead you back to what you were created for, not just some life without meaning!

Man was created an Eternal Spirit for eternal communion in heavenly places, but this is only revealed to those who dilligently seek Him.

Agape; Shammah.

Ummm,

Which "christian church" might you be referring to? Preach to me brother shammalamanam. Preach to all of us! What "church" do you belong to? How have you judged it? What bible verses are you referring to? Please...feel free to give me more information.

1 Corinthians 5:10-6:11 (Amplified Bible)


10Not [meaning of course that you must] altogether shun the immoral people of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world and human society altogether!

11But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person.

12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?

13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].


1 Corinthians 6
1DOES ANY of you dare, when he has a matter of complaint against another [brother], to go to law before unrighteous men [men neither upright nor right with God, laying it before them] instead of before the saints (the people of God)?
2Do you not know that the saints (the believers) will [one day] judge and govern the world? And if the world [itself] is to be judged and ruled by you, are you unworthy and incompetent to try [such petty matters] of the smallest courts of justice?

3Do you not know also that we [Christians] are to judge the [very] angels and pronounce opinion between right and wrong [for them]? How much more then [as to] matters pertaining to this world and of this life only!

4If then you do have such cases of everyday life to decide, why do you appoint [as judges to lay them before] those who [from the standpoint] of the church count for least and are without standing?

5I say this to move you to shame. Can it be that there really is not one man among you who [in action is governed by piety and integrity and] is wise and competent enough to decide [the private grievances, disputes, and quarrels] between members of the brotherhood,

6But brother goes to law against brother, and that before [Gentile judges who are] unbelievers [without faith or trust in the Gospel of Christ]?

7Why, the very fact of your having lawsuits with one another at all is a defect (a defeat, an evidence of positive moral loss for you). Why not rather let yourselves suffer wrong and be deprived of what is your due? Why not rather be cheated (defrauded and robbed)?

8But [instead it is you] yourselves who wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren [by so treating them]!

9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.

11And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the [Holy] Spirit of our God.

Cor.11:31-32;
31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world!

Mark.8:34-38;
34And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

36For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

37Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

38Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angel.


Revelation 3
1AND TO the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Sardis write: These are the words of Him Who has the seven Spirits of God [[d]the sevenfold Holy Spirit] and the seven stars: I know your record and what you are doing; you are supposed to be alive, but [in reality] you are dead.
2Rouse yourselves and keep awake, and strengthen and invigorate what remains and is on the point of dying; for I have not found a thing that you have done [any work of yours] meeting the requirements of My God or perfect in His sight.

3So call to mind the lessons you received and heard; continually lay them to heart and obey them, and repent. In case you will not rouse yourselves and keep awake and watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and you will not know or suspect at what hour I will come.

4Yet you still have a few [persons'] names in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes, and they shall walk with Me in white, because they are worthy and deserving.

5Thus shall he who conquers (is victorious) be clad in white garments, and I will not erase or blot out his name from the Book of Life; I will acknowledge him [as Mine] and I will confess his name openly before My Father and before His angels.(I)

6He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the [Holy] Spirit says to the assemblies (churches).

(church) in Ephesus;

4But I have this [one charge to make] against you: that you have left (abandoned) the love that you had at first [you have deserted Me, your first love].

5Remember then from what heights you have fallen. Repent (change the inner man to meet God's will) and do the works you did previously [when first you knew the Lord], or else I will visit you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you change your mind and repent.

church) in Sardis;

I know your record and what you are doing; you are supposed to be alive, but [in reality] you are dead.
2Rouse yourselves and keep awake, and strengthen and invigorate what remains and is on the point of dying; for I have not found a thing that you have done [any work of yours] meeting the requirements of My God or perfect in His sight.

3So call to mind the lessons you received and heard; continually lay them to heart and obey them, and repent. In case you will not rouse yourselves and keep awake and watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and you will not know or suspect at what hour I will come.

4Yet you still have a few [persons'] names in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes, and they shall walk with Me in white, because they are worthy and deserving.

5Thus shall he who conquers (is victorious) be clad in white garments, and I will not erase or blot out his name from the Book of Life; I will acknowledge him [as Mine] and I will confess his name openly before My Father and before His angels.


Matt.7:13-15;

13Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and spacious and broad is the way that leads away to destruction, and many are those who are entering through it.

14But the gate is narrow (contracted [d]by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it.

15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.

Heb.5:8-9;
8Although He was a Son, He learned [active, special] obedience through what He suffered

9And, [His completed experience] making Him perfectly [equipped], He became the Author and Source of eternal salvation to all those who give heed and (OBEY) Him!

2 Timothy 3
1BUT UNDERSTAND this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].
2For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.

3[They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.

4[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.

5For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them!

2 Peter.3:3-4;
3To begin with, you must know and understand this, that scoffers (mockers) will come in the last days with scoffing, [people who] walk after their own fleshly desires

4And say, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the forefathers fell asleep, all things have continued exactly as they did from the beginning of creation.

2 Tim.3:3-4;
3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,

4And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.( christmas, easter, pre-trib rapture, once saved always saved, and preaching sweet things for money, let alone new age )!

So I must belong to the church that is invisible, with the word written in our hearts, small gatherings searching the scriptures without compromise.

The true church has no walls, but in the Spirit, and are pilgrims here, waiting for an heavenly home.

Agape; Shammah.




















[edit on 27-12-2004 by shammah]

[edit on 27-12-2004 by shammah]

Thought I'd better include the scriptures that this subject is mostly about and remember it is a hard subject!

I do not pretend to understand the full meanings, especially in the light of the society we live in; but the statement seem solid, and hard to overlook!

Or are they, you decide; what do you think about sin and faith ? Can there be any mixture of the two without repentance, and still be pleasing to God?

Romans.14:23;
23But the man who has doubts (misgivings, an uneasy conscience) about eating, and then eats [perhaps because of you], stands condemned [before God], because he is not true to his convictions and he does not act from faith. For whatever does not originate and proceed from faith is sin [WHATEVER is done without a CONVICTION of its APPROVAL by GOD is SINFUL].

Who can attain to such a high standard, but to one who has spent much intimate time with God and His Word ? I have not attained, and even Paul indicates that maybe he had not attained, but we are to strive to enter in, and endure to the end!

It's a prize received at the end of the race, race till the end, and keep unspotted by the world!

James.4:13-17;
13Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a city and spend a year there and carry on our business and make money.

14Yet you do not know [the least thing] about what may happen tomorrow. What is the nature of your life? You are [really] but a wisp of vapor (a puff of smoke, a mist) that is visible for a little while and then disappears [into thin air].

15You ought instead to say, If the Lord is willing, we shall live and we shall do this or that [thing].

16But as it is, you boast [falsely] in your presumption and your self-conceit. All such boasting is wrong.

17So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to HIM it is SIN.

In ALL things seek to please Him; walk in the Spirit , and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh!

Agape; Shammah.