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This Sort of Thing Is Why I Speak Out Against Religion

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posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I agree, and I think this ideology of turning something religious into something political speaks volumes about the fact that religion exists solely as a political tool.

People will vote for someone solely based on their religious affiliation regardless of their policies a good majority of the time. As long as they parrot their particular religions ideologies they'll vote for them, let's ignore the fact that they're just pandering to a certain demographic and will end up looking after themselves and their job security only. Where's job security? Where the money is. Money has no religious or political affiliation.




posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I agree, and I think this ideology of turning something religious into something political speaks volumes about the fact that religion exists solely as a political tool.

People will vote for someone solely based on their religious affiliation regardless of their policies a good majority of the time. As long as they parrot their particular religions ideologies they'll vote for them, let's ignore the fact that they're just pandering to a certain demographic and will end up looking after themselves and their job security only. Where's job security? Where the money is. Money has no religious or political affiliation.


I don't know Nietzsche sounds pretty insane to me and he was atheist. Without god and humbleness he could trample over other human beings to get whatever you want. Without morality you can do whatever you want. Read his work.

So it works both ways.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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It wasnt her religion that caused the Japanese to expand their empire and slaughter millions, thats why i speak out against all Japanese.

The saddest thing are posts like these that have offered nothing of value but "hey look at this video".

Its not the religions fault, its the person reading and understanding it.

All white US people are racists and want to bring back slavery and kill black people in their churches. I hate white American crackers. I will always speak out against the stupidity of White Americans because they are all like that fella who shot dead all those coloured people in that church.

Yes I know my comments are stupid, so is the OPs premise, thats my point.
edit on b2015Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:21:50 -050063020153pm302015-06-24T18:21:50-05:00 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: borntowatch
It wasnt her religion that caused the Japanese to expand their empire and slaughter millions.

The saddest thing are posts like these that have offered nothing of value but "hey look at this video".

Its not the religions fault, its the person reading and understanding it.

All white US people are racists and want to bring back slavery and kill black people in their churches. I hate white American crackers. I will always speak out against the stupidity of White Americans because they are all like that fella who shot dead all those coloured people in that church.

Yes I know my comments are stupid, so is the OPs premise, thats my point.


Exactly. Atheists think they are some how better and more scientific. Truth is they have faith god doesn't exist but can't prove it. atheist philosophers are the ones most responsible for capitalism and the dog eat dog nature of it. With god out of the way and morality you can treat your fellow man however you want. What is stopping you?

Of course all atheists are not this way just pointing out the other side of the cards.
edit on 24-6-2015 by luthier because: edit



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
Truth is they have faith god doesn't exist but can't prove it.


I would argue you can prove or disprove specific gods, easily.

Maybe not the concept of a god, but those claimed by man?



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:03 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: luthier
Truth is they have faith god doesn't exist but can't prove it.


I would argue you can prove or disprove specific gods, easily.

Maybe not the concept of a god, but those claimed by man?

Absolutely but atheism is the belief god doesn't exist even in concept.

A deist believes in the concept of god but not religion.

Furthermore a person can be on the fence and leave themselves open to the fact god does or does not exist since there is no proof either way.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Morals don't originate in religion, they originate within the soul of a person. We all have a naturally ingrained moral compass, whether we decide to follow it or ignore it is our decision alone.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Well that's true for many atheists, but not all. But personal opinions on all sides, aside. Facts are facts. Not to be rude here, just probing your mind. How do you go about proving your god? How do you go about proving the gods of other religions false? You argue that you can't prove god doesn't exist. Do you apply that to other religions as well? At this point, how are you to work out which gods are real and which aren't? Are you judging solely based on your own religion (i.e. considering other religions works of the devil, myths, etc.) Do all gods exist? Do none?



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: luthier

Morals don't originate in religion, they originate within the soul of a person. We all have a naturally ingrained moral compass, whether we decide to follow it or ignore it is our decision alone.


No we don't and if you studied anthro you would understand this. Morality is subjective. In domestic scale culture the morality of say the yanomami is very different then a liberal new yorker.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: luthier

Well that's true for many atheists, but not all. But personal opinions on all sides, aside. Facts are facts. Not to be rude here, just probing your mind. How do you go about proving your god? How do you go about proving the gods of other religions false? You argue that you can't prove god doesn't exist. Do you apply that to other religions as well? At this point, how are you to work out which gods are real and which aren't? Are you judging solely based on your own religion (i.e. considering other religions works of the devil, myths, etc.) Do all gods exist? Do none?


Its true by all atheists by definition. If you don't believe in the concept of god you are atheist. If you don't know that is not atheist.

I can't prove god exists just as I stated. I also don't believe in any man made god or faith. I do believe in a chain of higher intelligence. Without going into infinite regress I don't know how to prove how the universe existed without something that always existed. That's all I know about god.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Some atheists reject all claims about gods or goddesses and do not believe in any of them. However the concept of a god of some sort is not necessarily rejected. These are called agnostic atheists.

All one has to be to be an atheist is someone who does not believe in any gods. Rejecting any concept or possibility of an unknown god is not a requirement for atheism.

I myself am open to the idea of "something" that may be defined by us, as a god, or godlike from our perspective. However I find it unlikely in most scenarios. As for gods claimed to exist, I have been able to disprove them. At least to my own satisfaction.

You say you don't believe in any man made god or faith? So you are just spiritual in some way?


edit on 6-24-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Agnostic atheism doesn't make sense by definition. Most philosophy at least academic doesn't accept the term. You either don't believe a god could exist or you are open to the idea.

How did the universe begin? What set the big band in motion? What was there before? How is OUR universe so finely tuned without something creating the code?

These are debates that have been hard to argue on either side without siting theory or going into infinite regress.

There was a time religious people were much more based on reason (and some are). St Anselm, st Aquinas, for example both deep thinkers.



edit on 24-6-2015 by luthier because: edit



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: borntowatch


The saddest thing are posts like these that have offered nothing of value but "hey look at this video".

I disagree. I think the OP does have value. It is a reminder that zealots like this exist, and how dangerous their ideology and theology really are to society. BTW. You mad, bro?



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

I don't know Nietzsche sounds pretty insane to me and he was atheist. Without god and humbleness he could trample over other human beings to get whatever you want. Without morality you can do whatever you want. Read his work.

So it works both ways.


We don't need God to distinguish good from bad,

If we did, then killing first born Egyptian babies, flooding the entire world killing millions, wiping out cities (Sodom and Gomorrah), killing pagans, Babylonians, treat Gentiles like animal, beating your slaves, stoning your wife, and many more
would be perfectly moral.

But guess what... all the above aren't moral, and so your God isn't moral, so he and his followers are the last ones to have any authority on morality.

Also living a life full of sin, including killing as many as you like, stealing, lying and whatever other immorality you can think of, is ok as long as you accept Christ, confess and ask for forgiveness, your soul will be saved.
Some saints of the christian church did exactly that, but they are still considered saints!

Finally, I understand if you don't like Nietzsche, or if you don't agree with his views, but calling him insane for speaking reason to a theocratic society is beyond me.

Maybe if you take off the religious dogma blinkers for a moment, you could understand his POV much better.



Exactly. Atheists think they are some how better and more scientific. Truth is they have faith god doesn't exist but can't prove it. atheist philosophers are the ones most responsible for capitalism and the dog eat dog nature of it. With god out of the way and morality you can treat your fellow man however you want. What is stopping you?


The video is a bright example how religious parochialism can alter someones perception of reality, signs of which are also apparent in your post...

Having said that, I can't blame you or any other religious individual, probably sincere and otherwise moral people, for thinking this way and acting hatred, about atheists or other groups of people including homosexuals,
but I can blame your religion for that...

I also blame your religion for destroying science, philosophy, art, priceless monuments, literature, knowledge, logic and reason, bringing the dark ages, enslaving the known world into a tyrannic theocracy and literally taking the world nearly 2000 years back in progress.


Christianity deprived us of the benefits of Greek and Roman cultures. Over two thousand years ago, the Greeks and the Romans had discovered the scientific method. They possessed "...the methodical research, the genius of organization and administration, the faith in, the will to, man's future, the great Yes to all things .But it was ruined by cunning, stealthy, invisible, anemic vampires....

Friedrich Nietzsche



So many christians, so few Lions

Me



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: luthier

It makes perfect sense and is widely known. I haven't read any academic papers on atheism so I don't know what their authors may say on the matter. Nor am I concerned because, as I said it's widely known and accepted concept.

An atheist is a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Do you believe in a God or gods?

If the answer is no, you're an atheist.

Do you believe in the concept or idea of a God or gods?

You can answer yes, and still be an atheist. There is a difference between rejecting gods that have been claimed to exist, and rejecting the concept that there may very well be one. One.. but not any of the ones claimed to exist because as yet, the evidence of their existence crumbles upon scrutiny. IMHO.

Sounds like you are a Christian?

And you easily dismiss man made gods and faith yet don't give them the same respect and standard of evidence you apply to your own beliefs?

To each their own. Going to off topic here anyway..
edit on 6-24-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: luthier

I don't know Nietzsche sounds pretty insane to me and he was atheist. Without god and humbleness he could trample over other human beings to get whatever you want. Without morality you can do whatever you want. Read his work.

So it works both ways.


We don't need God to distinguish good from bad,

If we did, then killing first born Egyptian babies, flooding the entire world killing millions, wiping out cities (Sodom and Gomorrah), killing pagans, Babylonians, treat Gentiles like animal, beating your slaves, stoning your wife, and many more
would be perfectly moral.

But guess what... all the above aren't moral, and so your God isn't moral, so he and his followers are the last ones to have any authority on morality.

Also living a life full of sin, including killing as many as you like, stealing, lying and whatever other immorality you can think of, is ok as long as you accept Christ, confess and ask for forgiveness, your soul will be saved.
Some saints of the christian church did exactly that, but they are still considered saints!

Finally, I understand if you don't like Nietzsche, or if you don't agree with his views, but calling him insane for speaking reason to a theocratic society is beyond me.

Maybe if you take off the religious dogma blinkers for a moment, you could understand his POV much better.



Exactly. Atheists think they are some how better and more scientific. Truth is they have faith god doesn't exist but can't prove it. atheist philosophers are the ones most responsible for capitalism and the dog eat dog nature of it. With god out of the way and morality you can treat your fellow man however you want. What is stopping you?


The video is a bright example how religious parochialism can alter someones perception of reality, signs of which are also apparent in your post...

Having said that, I can't blame you or any other religious individual, probably sincere and otherwise moral people, for thinking this way and acting hatred, about atheists or other groups of people including homosexuals,
but I can blame your religion for that...

I also blame your religion for destroying science, philosophy, art, priceless monuments, literature, knowledge, logic and reason, bringing the dark ages, enslaving the known world into a tyrannic theocracy and literally taking the world nearly 2000 years back in progress.


Christianity deprived us of the benefits of Greek and Roman cultures. Over two thousand years ago, the Greeks and the Romans had discovered the scientific method. They possessed "...the methodical research, the genius of organization and administration, the faith in, the will to, man's future, the great Yes to all things .But it was ruined by cunning, stealthy, invisible, anemic vampires....

Friedrich Nietzsche



So many christians, so few Lions

Me







First off not Christian or religious. Guess you didn't read any of my posts or misread them.

Second never said morality needed god. It does need to be taught culturally and is not innate. Like I said if you know anthropology morality is very different every where you go.

I am perfectly fine with morality being taught purely philosophically.

When I studied philosophy we studied these arguments and there fallacies. Atheists don't have any more or less morality than zealots. There have been many serial killers who identify as atheist for instance.

Don't put words in my mouth please.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: luthier

It makes perfect sense and is widely known. I haven't read any academic papers on atheism so I don't know what their authors may say on the matter. Nor am I concerned because, as I said it's widely known and accepted concept.

An atheist is a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Do you believe in a God or gods?

If the answer is no, you're an atheist.

Do you believe in the concept or idea of a God or gods?

You can answer yes, and still be an atheist. There is a difference between rejecting gods that have been claimed to exist, and rejecting the concept that there may very well be one. One.. but not any of the ones claimed to exist because as yet, the evidence of their existence crumbles upon scrutiny. IMHO.

Sounds like you are a Christian?

And you easily dismiss man made gods and faith yet don't give them the same respect and standard of evidence you apply to your own beliefs?

To each their own. Going to off topic here anyway..


Not Christian at all. Don't believe in the bible at all. I am a deist.

I am however a student of philosophy and thus so have seen these arguments run out to there extreme by other philosophers.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
Not Christian at all. Don't believe in the bible at all. I am a deist.

I am however a student of philosophy and thus so have seen these arguments run out to there extreme by other philosophers.


My bad, I didn't read all the posts in this thread.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: luthier

A lot of the time our moral compasses are influenced by the environment around us, but all morality has one thing in common, the desire to be treated well. If we want to be treated well and we realize this about others, we see that to hurt another is wrong. If someone treats another badly all while knowing they want to be treated well, that is to go against their naturally ingrained moral compass. We all want to be treated well, we all know others want to be treated well too, so those who hurt others are going against that moral compass within themselves.

Morality can have many gray areas but they all have that one thing in common.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: luthier

A lot of the time our moral compasses are influenced by the environment around us, but all morality has one thing in common, the desire to be treated well. If we want to be treated well and we realize this about others, we see that to hurt another is wrong. If someone treats another badly all while knowing they want to be treated well, that is to go against their naturally ingrained moral compass. We all want to be treated well, we all know others want to be treated well too, so those who hurt others are going against that moral compass within themselves.

Morality can have many gray areas but they all have that one thing in common.


How? I haven't seen that to be true. What culture are you talking about? The yanomami my first example take iowaska all day and trip out much of their lives for instance. They limit the number of women born and then war over them.

There are many examples of peoples cultures including Christians abusing people into monsters continuously for generations creating psychopathic characteristics (at least what our culture calls such).

Morality is more than grey its done through logic and reason and some cultures have done it through fear and drug trips. Its a mixed bag. What our western culture considers moral is very different from some tribal animist cults and cultures. Like human sacrifice, condoned rape etc.



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