Enacting a basic income for all Americans

a reply to: EternalSolace
I ain't deciding who reproduces and who isn't, I am saying that to cut the customer base so drastically would also kill off many of the companies competing for the customers, and well make the automation kind of not needed to begin with.
I don't think there is any way foreward without giving up our current mindset in this area. our motivation to work, our definition of what work is, the idea that profit is the major objective, it all is going to have to change.
maybe our technology has outpaced our spiritual/moral growth or something I don't know.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: EternalSolace
I ain't deciding who reproduces and who isn't, I am saying that to cut the customer base so drastically would also kill off many of the companies competing for the customers, and well make the automation kind of not needed to begin with.
I don't think there is any way foreward without giving up our current mindset in this area. our motivation to work, our definition of what work is, the idea that profit is the major objective, it all is going to have to change.
maybe our technology has outpaced our spiritual/moral growth or something I don't know.

Are we talking ten years into the future or one hundred?

Because in one hundred years, I can fore see that there is 90% unemployment due to automation.

I am talking about automation,
outsourcing
and forcing the wages down to the lowest amount possible.
and well tell ya right now, if the gov't stopped giving money to people to help them get medical care, well the healthcare system wouldn't be left standing in many places now!

a reply to: dawnstar

If the government cut off the social programs the US would descend into total chaos.

Most people are totally unaware of how much help people are getting in their local communities from CEO, local churches, grant programs, subsidied mental healthcare and so many many other things.

They dont know what were dealing with they are oblivious to it. They should go to the social security office and find out how much of their local community needs it.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You assume if everyone had basic necessities that all desire to work would suddenly evaporate and we'd all be welfare queens.

Yes.

When I lived in the US, I was on unemployment for 3 months. It was the most miserable 3 months of my life. On top of the crushing boredom, I couldn't afford to go DO anything. I spent my time applying for jobs, travelling to interviews, and spent the evenings applying for jobs online. When I wasn't job hunting, I was basically staring at the TV waiting for death. I was completely miserable. Even if I had guaranteed basic income, I'd try to do SOMETHING to earn me extra money for playtime, and not just sit around collecting dust like an antique vase.

Good for you.

Do you speak for every person who is/was/will be unemployed?

S.R. may only be speaking for him/her-self, but I understand the mentality and tend to agree.
I've learned to accept that nothing in life is guaranteed, however, I do receive a check every month (SS-disability), and though it isn't much-I feel extremely grateful.., but I don't know how anyone would want to live as I do. Just because I can scrape by doesn't mean I'm happy with my lifestyle. If there were another/different way I would take it, as it is I have to learn to accept my fate.. for now.

My point is that-I doubt that most people would be happy to sit at home, unfulfilled, if they could be doing more-or better for themselves or/and others.
Peace

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: EternalSolace
I ain't deciding who reproduces and who isn't, I am saying that to cut the customer base so drastically would also kill off many of the companies competing for the customers, and well make the automation kind of not needed to begin with.
I don't think there is any way foreward without giving up our current mindset in this area. our motivation to work, our definition of what work is, the idea that profit is the major objective, it all is going to have to change.
maybe our technology has outpaced our spiritual/moral growth or something I don't know.

That's the crux of the matter. Can humanity abandon the mindset that because the current generation worked, the next generation must work as well.

We are fast approaching the day that the vast majority of labor will be replaced by automation. This will inevitably kill off a large amount of small businesses and large corporations.

Would it be better to halt technological advances for an archaic point of view that all must work, or allow technological advance to the point where work is obsolete?

a reply to: onequestion

And you should stop making it up as you go. You're spitting crap and calling it factual data and ignoring anything that disproves it. Time and time again.

And then when the dissent continues to come in, you put on your martyr cape and climb on your ivory tower.

I know you want your free money. I know you think you're owed it.

You're not.

I know that's your bit and all, but you've brought your A-game to this thread.

For once.

originally posted by: jimmyx
really?.....maybe if you looked up the arguments from the past when the minimum wage was first enacted, you might come to a different conclusion.

No, I wouldn't. I've done plenty of research into things, especially federal overreach (which is what the federal minimum wage is, imho). You certainly don't have to agree, but you also don't have to assume that I'm ignorant to the information I need in order to derive an informed conclusion.

I think you need to note that I said "guaranteed minimum anything that is offered by the government is not good for societies as a whole," and keep the emphasis where it should be. Sure, some individuals are helped by it, but I could (although I'm not going to waste the time here) intelligently argue that the perpetual welfare cycle that exists in America is a self-inflicted cancer that keeps getting treated with more cancer instead of a cure.

A minimum guaranteed income would be like directly injecting a massive malignant brain tumor into American society.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I wouldn't want to see a society dependent on robots to the point where we didn't know how any of them operated or how they could be fixed. One good natural disaster (asteroid) could send us back to the stone age because we weren't able to repair the robots that allowed us to survive.

We are so close to that now it isn't funny.
When the last of the people over 50 or so are gone so will all that knowledge of how things worked without automation and computers.
People will freeze to death because they didn't know how to start a fire.
But more likely die from dysentery from untreated water.

a reply to: onequestion

Well, I guess I'm to take that as an insult, but I wasn't alive in the 1950s and I don't understand what you're talking about. As to the social implications, yea, they're huge, but they aren't necessarily fixable in the short term.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I wouldn't want to see a society dependent on robots to the point where we didn't know how any of them operated or how they could be fixed. One good natural disaster (asteroid) could send us back to the stone age because we weren't able to repair the robots that allowed us to survive.

We are so close to that now it isn't funny.
When the last of the people over 50 or so are gone so will all that knowledge of how things worked without automation and computers.
People will freeze to death because they didn't know how to start a fire.
But more likely die from dysentery from untreated water.

I kind of agree with this but then I also kind of don't. If society were to collapse right now. Some of what you said would be true. But then if it collapsed right now. The over fifties would still be around to teach and or help. I think thoughts like this are just hubris. No one can survive without my knowledge.

But because of computers. You have millions that go online and read and watch Youtube videos. On how to start a fire. On how to treat water. On how to fix things. On how to survive in the wild. How many doom prepper videos are out there. Technology like computers makes the dissemination of knowledge easier. You may think that all the youngins do is post selfies on Facebook. But you would be surprised how many are also using social media to learn.

a reply to: karmicecstasy

Kind of hard to read anything online when the power is out.
It's not hubris, I've been studying survival for decades and there is no such thing as an expert.
Only those who make it and those who don't.