The Fermi Paradox — Where Are All The Aliens?

a reply to: pheonix358

I logged in after months of inactivity to star this - first time I've laughed out loud in a sad amount of time.

Thanks

a reply to: Gemwolf

The Fermi Paradox doesn't make much sense in this day and age.

First off, the video you posted asked and answered it's own question. It said we're an 0.73 civilization transitioning into a type 1 civilization and then it asks why haven't we detected these other civilizations.

First, you would simply have to turn a blind eye to Ufology and the mountains of evidence that has accumulated over the years.

Second, the video admits that we're primitive in our technology and our understanding of the nature of reality. It's not wise to act as if you have all of the answers when haven't even put boots on Mars.

Third, the evidence for Panspermia is growing and this would make life even more abundant.

Fourth, Most Scientist understand that we will detect life soon and it's just a matter of time. Like your video says, we're a type 0.73 civilization and our technology when it comes to space exploration is still primitive even though we have Apple Watches lol. Again, I don't know why people make the assumption that at our limited stage of technology and understanding of the nature of reality, we should have every answer.

I was just reading an article titled:

We're going to detect alien life in the next decade, but not where you might think

There's been a lot of articles coming out like this lately. It says:

"I think we're probably going to be able to detect life on another planet in the next decade or so," Christopher Impey, who is an astronomer at the University of Arizona and author of over a dozen popular science books, told Business Insider. The way we're going to do it is "by exploring exoplanets that we're discovering in large numbers."

www.businessinsider.com...

So, Fermi's Paradox really doesn't apply. I think most Scientist understand there's life on other planets they just also understand that we're very PRIMITIVE when it comes to space exploration. The article points this out.

Another advantage is that scientists can search for life on exoplanets more inexpensively and efficiently with instruments on earth than searching for them in our solar system.

In contrast, large government agencies like NASA and the European Space Agency will likely have to land a robotic probe on the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa, or some of the other promising places in our solar system, to discover evidence of life. (The one exception could be Saturn's water-rich moon Enceladus.) As of right now, the only lander mission on the books for NASA is their Mars 2020 mission, which won't be able to dig deep enough underground to search for signs of life, Impey suspects. That's why exoplanets are so promising.

Here's a video by Physicist Paul Davies talking about this and how we need to think outside of the box in these areas:



I just think in order for the Fermi's Paradox to be relevant in this day and age, you have to bury your head in the sand and ignore the mountains of information that tells us life exists on other planets.

You have one of the most famous Scientist today, Stephen Hawking, reaching the conclusion based on the available evidence that Aliens ALMOST CERTAINLY EXIST.

a reply to: Phage

Where exactly is that documentation?

Seriously, Lizardo?

Just in case you aren't playing stupid, I'll answer your question.

There are many databases documenting decades of encounters, but if you're honestly unaware of them, you might want to start here:


National Investigations Committee On Aerial Phenomena

NICAP probably had the most visibility of any civilian American UFO group, and arguably had the most mainstream respectability; Jerome Clark writes that "for many middle-class Americans and others interested in UFOs but repelled by ufology’s fringe aspects, it served as a sober forum for UFO reporting, inquiry, investigation, and speculation". NICAP advocated transparent scientific investigation of UFO sightings and contact. The presence of several prominent military officials as members of NICAP brought a further measure of respectability for many observers.

Throughout its existence, NICAP argued that there was an organized governmental cover up of UFO evidence. NICAP also pushed for governmental hearings regarding UFOs, to at best limited and occasional success. Though any UFO-related group attracts a number of uncritical enthusiasts along with a small percentage of cranks, astronomer J. Allen Hynek cited NICAP and APRO as the two best civilian UFO groups of their time, consisting largely of sober, serious minded people capable of valuable contributions to the subject. Until the mid-1960s, NICAP gave little attention to close encounters of the third kind (where animated beings are purportedly sighted in relation to a UFO). However, longtime NICAP member Richard H. Hall related privately that this position was "tactical and not doctrinaire." In other words, NICAP did not necessarily dismiss occupant reports out of hand, but elected to focus on other aspects of the UFO phenomenon which would be perceived by mainstream observers as less outlandish. But with the 1964 Lonnie Zamora UFO encounter — regarded by researchers as one of the most reliable UFO occupant reports — NICAP loosened its restrictions on studying UFO occupant reports.

Very prominent figures sat on NICAP’s board of governors: Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, USN (Ret.) He had been Director of Central Intelligence and first head of the Central Intelligence Agency. Another important name on the letterhead was that of Gen. Albert Coady Wedemeyer USA.

The organization had chapters and local associates scattered throughout the United States. Many of their members were amateurs, but a considerable percentage were professionals, including journalists, military personnel, scientists and medical doctors.

There you go, Dr. Lizardo. Thirty years of documentation in one place.

And I'm sorry if I woke you up, but you strike me as the type who will go right back to sleep. Some people prefer a comfortable dream to an unpleasant reality, and I bet you're one of them.

Here's a video of Dr. Kaku talking about the distance of technology between us and a type 3 civilization.



The Fermi video never tells us how we're supposed to detect these advanced civilizations especially if they don't want to be detected.

They could have sent their DNA here via directed panspermia and some of what we call U.F.O.'s could be advanced probes.

Maybe the civilization uses most of the universe for computation and one of the things it computes is ancestor simulations.

These are ideas coming from very smart Scientist and Philosophers of our time.

If the Fermi video tells us we're a type 0.73 civilization, how is the Fermi Paradox relevant today?

No offense but the video in the OP does nothing but exude the results of linear thinking.

I don't know if it's ego or arrogance (maybe a bit of both) but humanity has got to get out of this idea that all laws of physics understood so far apply to every other possible civilization that may be in existence. We really need to get a grip on all aspects of reality and stop thinking on 3rd density terms.

We are only 200,000 years old as a species, doesn't anyone think it's possible that the speed of light as means for navigation has been eclipsed by a more effective method by an older civilization? Doesn't anyone think that there are elements that can and do exist outside of our limited range of perception? It's possible that a species can travel light years in seconds via wormholes or stargates to this solar system and remain undetected by simply existing on a different frequency or wavelength outside of the limited visibility spectrum of humans.

Remember where we were 2000 years ago? Back in ancient Rome if I would have told the empire there will be more effective means to travel instead of horseback or chariot, like planes, jets, automobiles, or space shuttles I would have probably gotten stoned to death. Taking that analogy into consideration, to denounce the possibility of an advanced race operating above our technological means, and being able to travel to and exist in this area of the galaxy unbeknownst to us wouldn't make sense.

That video further reinforces thinking only inside the box.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Finding them in some instances might really depend on if they want us to find them in the first place.

Or.....The ones nearest us have a "been there done that" attitude and have retreated in to Dyson Spheres. They may just look like an anomaly, if we noticed them at all.
Another though I've had is that..a large part of the Universe is dark matter. What if there are thousands of alien civilizations, just on a different..phase? of existence? We can't see dark matter, we don't know what it is, but what if we, the small part made of, let's say light matter, is the undetectable part of the Universe to them? We sit here, all snug in the thought we're the "real" part, when all along, we are the odd man out.

It's hard enough for us to spot a distant planet (1,000 light-years away), so now imagine the equivalent of our ISS 100,000 light-years away and then trying to focus a telescope to find this miniscule point in space. Bearing in mind that it probably moving at high speeds, possibly even warp speeds. The universe is so massive that life could be spread intermittently vast distances apart. Just because we cannot see much activity doesn't mean it isn't there. We are babies and have a lot to learn about our universe, which sadly is unlikely to happen in my lifetime. But I will die and my energy will be recycled into something else so maybe I will find out then!

a reply to: Scdfa

This thread is kind of a "safe place" for people who want to pretend that we don't have seventy years of documented alien contact.

That's a really odd way to phrase it. Why wouldn't the forum be a "safe place" for discussing, well, anything really? Anyway, good luck on making it an "unsafe place" for discussing things.

a reply to: Gemwolf

In recent years, with deforestation of the Amazon jungle there has been increased with uncontacted or "lost" tribes. Typically they are spotted by a helicopter or airplane, the tribe watch in amazement and fear, then fire arrows at the flying contraption.

That is really fascinating. I hadn't realized that there were still some tribes left like that. I wonder if they have the equivalent of "believers" and "skeptics" with regards to the origins of those flying contraptions.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Well, there are no tribes unknown anymore - just left alone - like Humans own Alien Experiment :-D

Statistically there are thousands of inhabited planets out there, are we to believe that not one of them went through the technological phase of using radio waves? Why haven't we detected their carrier wave yet?

BTW , does anyone know how far along the SETI project is?

Just for giggles, this is what we sent out in to the galaxy 41 years ago. At the time it was cutting edge high tech, the guys who worked on it probably thought it was very sophisticated and they were so wise.

If they did exist, what would they think of us?

originally posted by: Cinrad

Just for giggles, this is what we sent out in to the galaxy 41 years ago. At the time it was cutting edge high tech, the guys who worked on it probably thought it was very sophisticated and they were so wise.

It inspired a movie

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Scdfa

This thread is kind of a "safe place" for people who want to pretend that we don't have seventy years of documented alien contact.

That's a really odd way to phrase it. Why wouldn't the forum be a "safe place" for discussing, well, anything really? Anyway, good luck on making it an "unsafe place" for discussing things.

Yes, I'd imagine a sentence where everything is spelled correctly would seem odd to you.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Scdfa

This thread is kind of a "safe place" for people who want to pretend that we don't have seventy years of documented alien contact.

That's a really odd way to phrase it. Why wouldn't the forum be a "safe place" for discussing, well, anything really? Anyway, good luck on making it an "unsafe place" for discussing things.

Yes, I'd imagine a sentence where everything is spelled correctly would seem odd to you.

I'm not sure what that means. I was talking about your use of the phrase "safe place".

This thread is kind of a "safe place" for people who want to pretend that we don't have seventy years of documented alien contact.

You seem to be implying that there is no "safe place" in the forum for discussing things that don't accept that there is "documented alien contact". Are you saying that there shouldn't be threads like this? Should I feel "unsafe" discussing things in other threads? I am just asking for clarification. No need for a response to make me feel "unsafe"

a reply to: Gemwolf

Where are the aliens?

They are gone. They are gone in the direction of Sirius and Orion, the direction the old Egyptians, or was it a civilization that existed long before the Egyptians', were pointing at.

They came from a passing star, possibly Scholz's star.

And Earth is not a planet where intelligent live, a life form with consciousness could have been formed.

www.evawaseerst.be...

Where have all the aliens gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the aliens gone?
Long time ago

Where have all the aliens gone?
Never were here anyway
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?

Sorry for singing, getting late.

Personally, I think we've been visited. I think there's pretty ample evidence to support this, despite the crackpots out there.

So, if this assumption is correct, then it begs the question...."Why the silence?"

Granted, we have no way of knowing how "they" think....but, since all we have to go on is us...

1) They don't want to help us, as they still hide from us.
2) They don't want to conquer us, or they would have already. (and since war for humans is all about resources, and interstellar travel = unlimited resources...no reason for war...unless they just like it)
3) Assuming we're right in that they've known of us a while, not much left to study about us, so not that either.

So, help and harm seem to be ruled out. As well as just curiosity. So, what's left?

Only thing I can think of is "containment". Personally, it's the only thing that makes sense. For whatever reason, or whatever the criteria, it's my belief these beings simply want to keep us in our own little space for the time being. Maybe it's out propensity for war, maybe we're just too weird (talking meat joke, google it), etc.

a reply to: Gemwolf

Maybe its as simple as distance.. ie
no civilisation ...however advanced can travel faster than light..
just putting it out there

I love the fact that many in this thread are well versed in the subject and are discussing the same issues, questions, arguments and counter arguments much of academia currently are, if not in using the same language.

That's so full of win!

The fact of the matter is I would be weary of anyone who tells you they know any answers regarding where the aliens are.

No one knows.

That goes for scientist, UFOlogist/"abductee"/"experiencer" and media alike.

The reason I showed that illustrated Drake Equation was because the big thing to take away from it is that it has a lot of question "?" marks on it.

We simply don't know enough yet. But that's one reason why we build telescopes, spectrographs, space probes and other instruments.

And in the years and decades ahead we will probably learn quite a lot more about our local neighborhood and any life which may exist nearby.

Of all the times in human history to be alive in, this might perhaps be the greatest one for that reason alone!

Hiding from humans of course