The infuriating cases of people who lack rationality.

originally posted by: Ghost147
What I want to know is just how someone can possibly think this way? Not just in the topic I gave as an example, but in any discussion. To go beyond the scope of ignoring things and really feeling as if they didn't see it at all. It's more than simply plugging their ears and yelling random things so they can't here you, it's as if they really, literally, cannot see it.

It makes me wonder if there is any brain scan researchers who are looking at any individual with an extreme view who acts such as this individual has done. I want to know if there are actually sections of the brain (such as sight, critical thinking, and memory) which actually shut off when something challenges whatever it is they hold so closely to them.
Anyways, that's that!

This has been covered in New Scientist quite extensively. It's not extreme views but an inability to change one views based on evidence. It does not matter what the belief is. The really weird thing is the experiment that took two sets of people told one set the truth and the other a lie about a topic none of them previously knew anything about. They then put these groups together and observed what happened, you can probably guess. Here's the weird bit : when those that had been lied to were told they had been lied to they still continued to believe in the lie and defend the point in an argument. ..... ATS must be a psychologists dream ;-)

NB not everyone behaves like this but enough to really annoy you.

originally posted by: JUhrman

originally posted by: Ghost147

What I want to know is just how someone can possibly think this way? Not just in the topic I gave as an example, but in any discussion. To go beyond the scope of ignoring things and really feeling as if they didn't see it at all. It's more than simply plugging their ears and yelling random things so they can't here you, it's as if they really, literally, cannot see it.

delusion
[dih-loo-zhuh n]

Psychiatry.
a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact
a false idea or belief that is caused by mental illness

I don't know if it's against the rules to say this, but the conspiracy theory and the mental illness crowds often overlap.

The proportion of mentally ills on ATS is very likely higher than in the general population.

This is a problem that exists whatever the philosophical stance. Some religious people are deluded, some atheists are deluded. When someone is incapable of processing and accepting a fact and treat it like an opinion, there is a great chance that he is deluded.

What's delusional about atheism, that's only believing in provable facts without making any extra assumptions....


Not that I'm saying an atheist can't be delusional, but it's not really possible for atheism to be the cause of his delusions. Which is the exact opposite from religions. Where in most cases the person is totally logical except for his belief in whatever religion......

Very interesting comments, everyone. Thanks for your contribution.

Yes, I'm aware that some people (on both sides) of the creation/evolution debate can get out of hand, I'm not denying that. Honestly, I was just using it as an example as I see the individuals who do reject all forms of information to save their belief most often there.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Hmmm, I had a subscription to New Scientist a while back, unfortunately I didn't see the article you're referring to. I'll have to look it up. Thanks for the info!

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Snarl

Is this post here just to rile up evolutionists?

Because, there's quite a bit of tangible evidence to prove evolution..

I'm thinking it was quite the opposite.

Bigagyte. Lol.

a reply to: Entreri06

Where did I ever say atheism is a source of delusion? Read what you quoted, all I said is that delusion doesn't care about your personal beliefs.

It's caused by mental illness and everyone can have it.


It's not religion that is a source of delusion, like it's not ATS making people believe in crazy theories. It's all taking place inside the person, because of the lack of critical thinking, because of irrational fears, because of psychosis, etc.

You can be religious and not read the bible literally like the majority of Christians. The bible or ATS don't cause delusion. Brainwashing by fundamentalists or conspiracy nutjobs does on the other hand. There is no requirement to deny scientific facts in religion. Only in fundamentalism.

Religions are only spiritual philosophies. Whether someone refuses to believe scientific truths is a personal choice. Did you miss the part about the Vatican not denying evolution?

a reply to: JUhrman

well said fellow citizen. I could not agree more with that statement 100%.

This has been covered in New Scientist quite extensively. It's not extreme views but an inability to change one views based on evidence. It does not matter what the belief is. The really weird thing is the experiment that took two sets of people told one set the truth and the other a lie about a topic none of them previously knew anything about. They then put these groups together and observed what happened, you can probably guess. Here's the weird bit : when those that had been lied to were told they had been lied to they still continued to believe in the lie and defend the point in an argument. ..... ATS must be a psychologists dream ;-)

NB not everyone behaves like this but enough to really annoy you.

Eh yorkshirelad, I was wondering why you imagine that is, or if New Scientist commented on that...

"So I decided to hop in and correct some suppositions which where not accurate. "

There's where you went wrong right there, pal. Haha

I know it's a message board, but sometimes there are some members you can't have a proper conversation with because they lack perspective.

We don't live in a black and white world, yet there are no shortage of people that like to paint it that way.

Best to just inspire a few people with some colours instead of trying to describe colours to a person that is colour blind.

a reply to: TenFourAnimation

Yes, That's actually what I try to do when I converse with the "colour blind". It's usually not for their benefit. The people who read those comments and have some sort of reason will see just how insane the "colour blind" or acting. Ironically, by them being so blind, faithful, and aggressive, they only serve to turn the people who used to agree with them away due to their irrationality.

The thing is there is Cognitive Bias, which we all can have, and not be aware of it!

Our view of reality at any given time may be ignoring or denying certain aspects in order to make it fit with our world view... which comes down to- we all see the world subjectively. I can not be sure anyone can perceive completely objectively the exterior world.

We all think we do though.

Though I find that sometimes there are reasons to not see certain angles- sometimes it is effective coping mechanisms.
The way you see the world impacts your experience of reality, the way you respond to it, and therefore, what events you provoke for yourself. We all have our own agenda- it might be a deeply felt soul plan, or it might be simply the recreation of experiences once experienced as comforting or pleasurable.

(for example, if going to church as a child provoked a pleasurable experience of community bonding, security, belongingness, your view of things as an adult may be geared towards experiencing that again and again.)


I don't share the christian religious view, and consider that we are living in a different paradigm, but feel no reason to try to change theirs. So I stay away from their threads.

But I keep in mind that we all experience cognitive bias, and that includes me. At any moment, when things seem painfully obvious to me, I might be the only one. But we each go with what we got.

Debate, looked at as a sport, is not for everyone. You must keep that in mind! I like it too, I like to have my thoughts challenged. But that is not true for everyone.
I am also very aware that this verbal spurring game can lead off of reality. Theory and practice do not always line up hand in hand. What makes perfect rational sense in word or thought does not always manifest accurately in practice. Because there is always an irrational part of reality- there is always an X, and unknown element that plays into things. Something we didn't foresee and calculate into the theory.

Words can be deceptive too. Sometimes in a debate, someone will submit to what I said, and I find myself thinking, but there was a perfectly possible argument they could have used against me there! Why didn't they use it? Like playing chess and seeing an opportunity your opponent had, but didn't see, themselves. Those moments remind me that just because others agree with you, doesn't mean you are right.