U.S. signed agreement with Mexico to teach illegal and legal immigrants to unionize....SERIOUSLY?

a reply to: CaptainTwig

You're right, living in small towns in so cal I haven't seen anything first hand.

Glad we can agree on one part.

originally posted by: JHumm
The government wants them to unionize so that in 15-20 years they can gut those unions just like they are doing now ....

What advantage is the union to any worker?

My experience with them was horrible.

a reply to: Mandroid7
My experience with unions was horrible to.they want to take money out of your paycheck without providing any real benefit.

a reply to: DonVoigt

Yep exactly...lay-offs the week before insurance can kick in. Lazy workers, bad ethics taught in class. This was the carpenters union, so no experience with any other, but I am guessing its the same game with a different name.

I don't think this union scheme is an attempt to help immigrants as much as it is a scheme to get them into one area and vote.

I think the specialized trades will not survive without fluent english speaking workers. They can't comprehend the more detailed processes and end up being more trouble than they are worth.

As a contractor, I had quite a few issues with them.

One example was from a couple of years ago, I built a contemporary attorney's office.
The drywall contractor I subbed used Mexicans whom didn't speak english. They finished the job fast, but drove my scissor lift through a wall, smashed up the plumbing, ripped off a door opener, and left a big bottle of piss in the corner of the room.

This was in a high end area and was a complete embarrassment.

Their communication boundaries make them unemployable for anything other than cleaning, imo.

Not much coming out of Washington these days to benefit citizens. So when they cook up this crap, you gotta ask why?

My guess is Obama's adoptive voters program. Streamlining them into areas to vote, and the others claiming he is a saint, so they may go vote on their own.

Not surprised. At all.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: Mandroid7
My experience with unions was horrible to.they want to take money out of your paycheck without providing any real benefit.

Without my union, I would have no health insurance, retirement, or recourse if hurt on the job, we have our own credit union with better low interest loans than any bank,grant money for further education, and free movie tickets.
I willingly pay my union dues for that type of security. Enjoy your weekend...you wouldn't have it but for unions.

www.u-s-history.com...

Proud member of SAG/AFTRA and IATSE

well maybe if illegals competed in this field, union dues could drop down to root out the thugsters and mafias. I have never been a fan of unions. Have at it illegals. You can run unions after a nice hard day of picking my awesome weekly berries supply for the family.
Sometimes I go out there with them to the farms to picks em myself. Sure is fun, and lowers the price. Keep the union. Not interested.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: Mandroid7
My experience with unions was horrible to.they want to take money out of your paycheck without providing any real benefit.

Without my union, I would have no health insurance, retirement, or recourse if hurt on the job, we have our own credit union with better low interest loans than any bank,grant money for further education, and free movie tickets.
I willingly pay my union dues for that type of security. Enjoy your weekend...you wouldn't have it but for unions.

www.u-s-history.com...

Proud member of SAG/AFTRA and IATSE

I am glad your union was sucessful and you are happy with it. They can pay well and keep you working in the right trade and market.

I wasn't so lucky.
One of the first thing we were taught in class was its "the union against the contractors."
They drilled it into everyones head there.

Along with picketing jobs they grossly over bid, paying workers with their own money they took off the top for benefits that they never purchased, the general thug like good old boy tactics they used were pretty eye openening to anyone not drinking the coolaid there.

I would never even consider doing business with the carpenters union after seeing how they operate.
There was a few good workers doing finish work, but their handlers make it not remotely worth it.
You hire them once and they expect every other job, regardless of overbidding, if they dont get it, they picket.
The big commercial contractors are sick of it, at least in my state and are phasing out doing business with them, and I can't say I blame them.

They used to be awesome, then got greedy, from what I can see. It sounds like they need to reevaluate their mission.

When you step back, and start to run the numbers, it is much more profitable to run it as a small business, then settling with $25 an hour and being a laborer. With the experience I had, I was thrown into 2nd year apprenticeship class, with a crappy pay rate with people who couldn't even read a tape measure.
You end up doing all the work for less pay, while the journeymen sit there.
We were working 10 hr days, 6 days a week. It wears out your body and mind.
I got sick of it when I was layed off right before benis' kicked in.

I made contacts with the right people and was making 25k+ a month doing the same work, but working a normal work week with some flexibility.

I got out of contracting all together because of the hassles, and invest now, doing the work at a leisurely rate or employ locals.
I pay my own insurance, aside from pres Ebloa's price jack up.

I am self employed now and can do my weekend any time I want.
Hate mondays, hit the beach instead. So I wont be thanking the union any time soon.

Sounds like we need a thread for union talk, so I wont jack the topic any longer, cause I don't think unionization of immigrants is what they are after anyway.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
If Illegal Immigration is a POSITIVE for our economy, then why have a border policy at all?

Why have a minimum wage? Why not just keep it going if it's so good for us? Why not just let everyone in and tell everyone that jobs are open to the lowest bidder?

Race to the bottom would expose it for what is really going on.

The people running this racket like to operate it from the shadows,
and use trickery and deception just like they use the Alinsky method
to tell you what you want to hear, then do what they want later.

I'd like to see the Mexicans kick out their Kleptocrats that murder
their kids, but they could say the same of us.

In the meantime find out how Mexico treats border jumpers in their country,
it is not pleasant.

Ask them what benefits those border jumpers get.

To be honest though this is just one of many laws that the
puppets on the Potomac totally ignore, but act like they care.

Its all political theater, and they do not give a damn about working
class sled dogs like most of the US chitizens.

The chitizens are waking up to the fact that the criminals took over
the country, and they have no intention of ever giving it back.

I am referring to the people who own the politicians.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Yup sound about right. I've had the same deal with contractors that hire some questionable people. It just makes you wonder sometime how they're still making money after they have to do it six time and have to pay for all the other repairs.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Oh...and the other linked article further explains it with some more references....

linked article

I think there is still time for you to go back and add all these links you are throwing out now to your OP.


As for this other article from the examiner is it also about a 2013 letter.

You are dangerously close to gish galloping.

Sorry I had to duck out last night....had to get the kiddos to bed and whatnot.

Anywho.....here is the link to the actual "act", from NLRB site, that was put in place:

NLRB Act

And here is the exact section that is causing this:

SUITS BY AND AGAINST LABOR ORGANIZATIONS

Sec. 301. [§ 185.] (a) [Venue, amount, and citizenship] Suits for violation of contracts between an employer and a labor organization representing employees in an industry affecting commerce as defined in this Act [chapter], or between any such labor organization, may be brought in any district court of the United States having jurisdiction of the parties, without respect to the amount in controversy or without regard to the citizenship of the parties.

So you can see that it applies to illegal and legal....no regard for citizenship status at all.

Does no one else see that an illegal joining a union raises the price of employing him? The whole point of employing illegals is that it is cheap. Why would someone hire an illegal that is part of a union and end up paying the same amount as someone who is legal?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

My issue has been and still is that unlike the sensational headlines and accusations of the article claim.

The agreement was not about setting out to teach immigrants how to uninize.


The agreement and the NLRB act has been about informing people of their rights.

From your own link

National Labor Relations Act
Congress enacted the National Labor Relations Act ("NLRA") in 1935

I just don't see the reason for the sensational headlines here in 2015 about a 2013 letter and an act from 1935.

Seems to me this is old news and I am wondering why I should get stirred up by it now other than the examiner has all of a sudden decided to make it an issue.

Seems like it was just a slow news day for them.

a reply to: olaru12

To be honest unions have played a significant part in where things are today.

Not all but enough..
Uaw Gm was paying close to a billion dollars a year in benefits each year... I don't know of any company that can start that far in the hole and not go bankrupt.

Or the airline pilots in the 80's making 6 figures and striking for more money better benefits.

Unions aren't the boogeyman but they deserve part of the blame for the current perception of them.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe


[sic]...Just what we need....illegal immigrants getting involved in union activism to take away jobs from actual citizens. I am so sick of this garbage and it just keeps getting piled on...[sic]

I have lived in California's Central Valley most of my life, being nearly 4 decades, so I have heard this many (many, many, many) times before.

1. There already is a union, called the UFW. You can view it here: www.ufw.org...

2. The labor that these individuals perform is hard, in brutal conditions (heat, landscape, people like you, etc.). My grandfather ran a large orange grove for years, a few of my uncle's for shorter spans, so I am somewhat familiar with the working conditions. I used to pull sprinkler hoses from the back of a 3-Wheeler when I was younger. Much easier than picking the actual oranges. My family came to CA during the Okie Migration and picked cotton just 2 generations ago, so I am sympathetic to their issues

3. If you believe that an illegal immigrant, without a basic, grade-school education, green card, social security number, or the ability to speak fluent English, is stealing your job, you seriously need to re-evaluate your chosen profession.

I am an old school Republican, and I choose to look at this as an issue that needs to be addressed, as opposed to pontificating on how I would like it to be in my own personal Utopia.

There is more, much more I assure you, to this that we can discuss, in-depth if you would like. The gist being that this country guarantees you the right to the PURSUIT of happiness, not the fulfillment of it. If a bunch of dirt-poor farm and general labor workers is single-handedly destroying your view of what this country "should be", then I am afraid that you may have overestimated your purpose in this life, and what basic human rights the US grants anyone that comes here and is willing to roll up their sleeves and get dirty to make a better life.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
It's ridiculous....it is telling people to illegally come to the US, unionize and force an employer to make you legally able to work here. It is putting the onus on the employer and relieving the immigrant of any obligation to become legal BEFORE getting a job.

So the illegals are forcing the US to change immigration policy. Sounds like a market correction to me.

U.S. signed agreement with Mexico to teach illegal and legal immigrants to unionize....SERIOUSLY?

Good! No worker should be taken advantage of by their employer. I don't care if they're illegal or not.

Si se puede! Si se puede! Si se puede!

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Land is land and humans are humans. The corruption is real unlike the borders of soil and currency with imaginary value that determines the value/power/status of people and fuels the evil mistake we call modern life.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DonVoigt

I think the specialized trades will not survive without fluent english speaking workers. They can't comprehend the more detailed processes and end up being more trouble than they are worth.

As a contractor, I had quite a few issues with them.

One example was from a couple of years ago, I built a contemporary attorney's office.
The drywall contractor I subbed used Mexicans whom didn't speak english. They finished the job fast, but drove my scissor lift through a wall, smashed up the plumbing, ripped off a door opener, and left a big bottle of piss in the corner of the room.

This was in a high end area and was a complete embarrassment.

Their communication boundaries make them unemployable for anything other than cleaning, imo.

Not much coming out of Washington these days to benefit citizens. So when they cook up this crap, you gotta ask why?

My guess is Obama's adoptive voters program. Streamlining them into areas to vote, and the others claiming he is a saint, so they may go vote on their own.

It's because of experiences like these that I agree with this bill. Skilled trades are very quickly becoming skill less due to the fact that the same job can be done for less than half the price by these people. I have not yet seen a single job where the quality, however, doesn't completely disgust me. Although to be fair the only ones I see are the ones I have had to try and fix. Even after seeing the difference in quality most builders and home owners still don't want to pay enough for a single person to pay his own way through life.

My job as a tile sett is already at the point where I just don't care anymore and say it's about time someone decided to screw these people over. If you choose to employ an illegal worker and end up forced to pay for them becoming legal it wont hurt me anymore than them being here already has. I can only hope that this is karma finally catching up to them.

If I'm lucky it will drive prices up high enough that people will be willing to pay for quality work again.