Amazingly Easy to Take Out Entire Internet in USA

Recently, vandals in Arizona cut through a fibre optic cable, taking out internet, phone, and cell phone connections to several hundred thousand users for HOURS. In response, several carriers in the USA declared that there is a major infrastructure weakness, in that they have zero backup systems for most fibre backbone cables.

Now, locations of these cables are a matter of private record. They're not buried very deeply (to allow for easy access when needed) and have VERY little security, more like none at all.

Now, imagine several agents across the USA (probably less than 20), all cutting fibre cables at the same time, taking out internet access to many areas of the country at once.

At the same time, several bombs are set off at soft civilian targets like city buses, underground systems, and other low security areas across the country. Those same agents who cut the cables could set off the bombs.

Communications would be down (including most Government networks). No one would know what's going on. No one would be able to get through to anyone to have a decision made.

CHAOS would rule the day, likely for quite a while.

This is a very real, very simple scenario that is VERY difficult to defend against. I feel a book coming on.

I don't condone this type of activity, I just expose the incredibly soft underbelly of the United States. For all the rhetoric about homeland security and hundreds of billions of dollars spent each year on defense, a few guys with $10 shovels could bring down the entire system, with very little difficulty.

Am I being overly simplistic here about the complete lack of security in the USA, or does anyone else see this as a potential scenario?

Internet may be down, but emergency systems rely on good old fashioned radio. Plus, news will get around through the various ham radio nets. They worked great for 9/11 and again following the Boston Marathon bombings.

Most young people don't remember a time before the internet, but it wasn't long enough ago foot the old timers to forget how it all worked.

So you think the Military and Government depend on the internet for communication? They have many many forms of communication and then back up to those commincations with almost none of depedent on the internet. And as for the American people, they could turn on TV, a radio or use a phone. The internet being knocked out for a few hours and would be a minor annoyance. Also such a scenerio with have coordinated cuttings that attackes are to complex and easly caught by the US.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

I remember before the internet , everything seemed to work before then. Theres always talking to a person face to face or a pen and and bit of paper.

a reply to: MrSpad

The WH has been known to use manual typewriters to conduct WH biz.

originally posted by: babybunnies
Communications would be down (including most Government networks). No one would know what's going on. No one would be able to get through to anyone to have a decision made.

CHAOS would rule the day, likely for quite a while.

Oh, it's actually worse than that. A lot worse. If you had a few dozen well trained guys, you could wreak limitless havoc in minutes. But you're on the right track.

WE have lived without before...

a reply to: babybunnies

Yes, centralized uniformity is always the worst solution for anything.

Cooperative independent autonomy is critical to adaptability and endurance under stress.

a reply to: babybunnies

I'm guessing you are younger.

At my age, I remember CB radio, and also ham radio. Like cmdrkeenkid said earlier, ham radio was used during 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings.

There will always be alternatives to the internet to communicate.

The infrastructure for the Internet and virtually all telecommunications equipment will be in the wireless arena in the not to distant future. The vulnerability of land lines have been known since the beginning, however, the technology in multi-gigabit wireless trunks and satellite up and down links has advanced tremendously and will replace the backbone. Sure, there will be backup fiber optic grids maintained for emergencies. There are even groups of scientists studying Through-The-Earth communications using Neutrinos, which could back up the loss of satellite communications in the event of crippling solar storms.

This will leave our power system grids as the most vulnerable infrastructure, as obviously none of this communications revelation can run without the mains.

Solar power star networks may be a solution to huge connected grids that can cause major outages. Tesla was actually working on technology that could transmit huge currents through the atmosphere, but as yet, no workable (or safe) system has ever come out of that work. Perhaps it too will have a solution, substantially cutting down the probabilities of wide spread outages.

We are looking at major changes in our telecommunications and power distribution in the future, and most of the younger population will most likely see it happen in their lifetime.

Hmm not sure why you specify the USA.

This is the case for any nation in the world and the internet.

a reply to: babybunnies

The internet going down would not cause anarchy.......Now the power going off.....YEP. This is the real danger and something PTB should be protecting.

FWIW, a few years back during some "big" hurricane the AT&T fiber backbone through New England got damaged- and they failed over to the backup.

The next day, a cleanup crew with a backhoe cut the backup.

Every GSM cellphone in Maine was offline for several hours, and every major ISP in these parts was down the rest of the day.

That's a heck of a backbone- and I can guarentee that the NSA has a server hanging off the core router that connects that line to the rest of the world. To think that the "internet kill switch" isn't already in place would be daft.
They wouldn't need to cut cables- simply switching off a half dozen core routers is all it would take to completely kill the flow of information for several states up this way.

If common folks would get a little more tech knowledge, this wouldn't be such a problem. An open source communications system can be set up rather quickly via wireless means. Concerning the internet, a "meshnet" can be set up through the "ad hoc" capabilities of wireless products. Two-way communications can be utilized outside of licensed shortwave.

Here is a thread I started on ATS. It covers all forms of two-way and wireless communications.
Can a Citizens Band Network Be Practical?

And here is a website I created on that subject. It has many links to articles and a plan outline for license free communications.
MCBRN

Shortwave is a good tool, but there isn't really a lot of ham operators out there and they will be busy with emergency communications, not personal communications. Also, you have to know these guys and go to them for help. In addition they can have a bad attitude about unlicensed use of shortwave.

There are at least more than 50 major lines in the US alone so it does take quite a few guys to effectively cut the lines as other lines will simply take over the load. It's a weakness but as others have pointed out we can do without the internet.

Nobody mentioned the cost of it all, it would go into billions a day. There's the regular traffic of people buying over the internet, doing all kinds of business, then the cost of the work to repair it all.

Maybe in several decades when people rely more on the internet and the oldskool people gone, the attack would increase in effectivity as the years go by. It would make an effective opening for a WW3 scenario where the landlines in the US don't even need to be cut, just the lines in the oceans would suffice. Anyone with a sub can plant explosives there and detonate at their convenience.

Not to worry, Hillary has her own internet.



As a Comcast customer I can tell you first hand that there will be no chaos and you will survive without the internet.

I don't see the internet as something essential to life and so what if phasebook, ebay, outlook etc stopped working for a few days. Essential communications (really essential services) might access some data via the net for convenience but their fallback is line of sight microwave and satellite up/down links, trunk mobile radio networks etc, the base stations being secured with 24+ hour battery backup and diesel generators on site for extended blackouts.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
. . . Essential communications (really essential services) might access some data via the net for convenience but their fallback is line of sight microwave and satellite up/down links, trunk mobile radio networks etc, the base stations being secured with 24+ hour battery backup and diesel generators on site for extended blackouts.

I've wondered if most of the repeater towers for Ham radio have a similar back-up system. The repeaters are extremely important to shortwave communications. Still, batteries and generators only last so long in a blackout or shortage situation.

a reply to: babybunnies

Putin. Will you get off the internet and quit using your old school KGB tactics of fear, intimidation, and propaganda to promote some form of instability?

To anyone reading this: Every state in the nation has multiple 'routes and switches' - built in redundancy - that do not require fiber. Fiber - to some degree - is still in the 'proof of concept' phase, believe it or not, and while it does provide a great deal of routing for internet traffic - traditional tried and true copper is still preferred by banks and critical government functions, and EVERY (major) ISP - even in Arizona - still trunks in, for redundancy's sake - the internet leveraging old school switching.

Keep in mind that 'routing' - the solitary purpose of it is to detect and circumnavigate black holes. Now of course routing serves other purposes, but the primary purpose is and has been to detect 'grid faults' and to guarantee traffic reaches it's destination.

Now what good would routing be if an infant technology known as fiber was the hardware pipe for routing? That wouldn't exactly be good network engineering, would it? These guys are smarter than that, folks. If you lost your internet connection and you live in Arizona, then chances are you experienced a gateway issue.

Keep in mind that MI (Military Intelligence - an oxymoron) is in Fort Huachuca, Arizona, and the NSA has a rather large listening post just north of Tucson (it's at the 'defunct' Air plane museum).

Now do you sincerely think they'd not have redundant networks in these areas?

If so, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The standard of backup for those sites would come down to who's funding them. Sites identified as essential to state/national security and/or crisis management would have the best insurance investment, amateur sites probably none unless the users are contributing enough toward the running costs.