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Supreme Court allows Wisconsin Voter I.D. law to stand

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posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 10:29 AM
a reply to: theantediluvian

About 18% of Americans 65 and older (6 million voters) do not have a valid government issued photo ID. This includes people like my grandmother who didn't drive for the last 40 years of her life. In fact, overall about 11% of eligible voters (21 million people) lack the government issued photo ID required by the most stringent voter ID laws.

No way.

If grandma has a bank account, social security checks, or ever goes to the doctor, then grandma has a valid ID. If grandma is spending the time and effort to "go around" the system, it is easier to take grandma to get an ID than go through all the hassle.
edit on 24-3-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:29 AM
a reply to: grandmakdw

I may hate the creeping totalitarianism that is upon us and growing slowly into every segment of our lives, doesn't mean I don't know what it takes to survive in our society, and what everyone needs to function adequately in our society as an adult, a picture ID

Yet the fact remains that a very large number eligible voters (apparently 11%) don't have a valid government issued photo ID. I don't disagree with the premise that it's difficult to function in modern society without one, but that doesn't change reality.

Look at the issue of voter fraud objectively and ask yourself if the ends justify the means. What type of voter fraud is most widespread and will voter ID laws like the one in Wisconsin (2011 Wisconsin Act 23) solve the problem? So what type of voter fraud is present in Wisconsin? It turns out that it's not impersonation at the polls. From U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman's 2014 ruling in Frank v. Walker:

The evidence at trial established that virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin. The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past.

The only evidence even relating to voter impersonation that the defendants introduced was the testimony of Bruce Landgraf, an Assistant District Attorney in Milwaukee County. Landgraf testified that in “major elections,” by which he means gubernatorial and presidential elections, his office is asked to investigate about 10 or 12 cases in which a voter arrives at the polls and is told by the poll worker that he or she has already cast a ballot.

However, his office determined that the vast majority of these cases—approximately 10 each election—have innocent explanations, such as a poll worker’s placing an indication that a person has voted next to the wrong name in the poll book.

Maybe it's not impersonation but some other type of fraud?

Washington Post - A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast:

Second, the court said that ID laws can help stop fraud. It then cited an example of recent fraud … that ID laws aren’t designed to stop. Specifically, it mentioned a case in which a supporter of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was charged with 13 counts of election fraud, including "registering to vote in more than one place, voting where he didn't live, voting more than once in the same election, and providing false information to election officials," according to an account by Talking Points Memo. Wisconsin's ID law would not likely have prevented any of the alleged violations.

This sort of misdirection is pretty common, actually. Election fraud happens. But ID laws are not aimed at the fraud you’ll actually hear about. Most current ID laws (Wisconsin is a rare exception) aren’t designed to stop fraud with absentee ballots (indeed, laws requiring ID at the polls push more people into the absentee system, where there are plenty of real dangers). Or vote buying. Or coercion. Or fake registration forms. Or voting from the wrong address. Or ballot box stuffing by officials in on the scam. In the 243-page document that Mississippi State Sen. Chris McDaniel filed on Monday with evidence of allegedly illegal votes in the Mississippi Republican primary, there were no allegations of the kind of fraud that ID can stop.

So if the type of fraud that could be stopped by the voter ID laws is virtually non-existent, nobody can prove otherwise, and they do nothing to address the type of voter fraud that DOES happen (but is still exceedingly rare), then what is the point of the law?

Not fixing a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place?

Or maybe erecting hurdles to legitimate voting with the intent of effectively disenfranchising voters that may tend to vote for one party's candidates more than the other's?

edit on 2015-3-24 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 11:38 AM
a reply to: infolurker

Yet the fact remains that 18% of Americans 65 and older do not have a valid government issued photo ID and overall, 11% of Americans eligible to vote do not.

No amount of authoritative sounding statements on your part (or mine or anyone else's) is going to change reality.

posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:10 PM
There are volunteers that will help the elderly and disabled to go to DMV to get an official ID card. It is equal to a drivers license for those who don't drive.

There are, however, citizens born without a birth certificate. In most cases there are witnesses who can sign an affidavit.

In a few cases there have been elderly citizens who outlived any witnesses to their birth. That's a problem that requires some kind of "fix".

If you have an aversion to an official ID --- I guess that's your problem.

edit on 24-3-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 01:19 PM
Problem is that without having to show an ID, the same person can vote over and over at different polling stations.

I lived in one state that required either a photo ID or an electric bill or other utility bill to prove you at least live in the area.

Allowing someone to just say I'm John Doe at this polling station, and I'm Sam Waters at that polling station, makes voter fraud very easy.

Since both sides scream about voter fraud, why make it easier to commit?

Also, even someone who flies in on an airplane from another country, could go from polling station, to polling station all day long, voting over and over.

If someone can't function in society to the point they don't have any form of ID or even an electric bill or anything at all that proves who they are, should they really be voting? I know you will scream discrimination and call me all kinds of horrid things for this statement.
And you will call me worse for my next statement: Voting was designed to give representation for those who pay taxes. If one has no ID then the chance they pay taxes is quite low.

Or do you prefer rampant voter fraud? If you believe the Republicans engage in voter fraud, what is to stop a Republican from going to multiple polls under multiple names?

I've also noticed that after a quick perusal of google, all the sites that claim these stats are liberal/progressive sites, I don't see a single conservative site that says the same thing. If this huge percentage were true then there would be evidence on other than mainstream media and liberal sites.

I just don't understand how any adult who is law abiding and a good citizen can function at all in our current society without some proof of who they are and where they belong. Even minorities on welfare MUST have a photo ID to get their checks, or any benefits at all, that is what makes me doubt the stats. Which I have the right to doubt, even though you probably think I do not have the right to doubt.

I abhor voter fraud and think that doing away with a requirement to show any form of ID, will not only allow rampant voter fraud by citizens, but plane loads of foreigners who want to skew the elections, and bus loads of people trucked around a state to engage in voter fraud.

So I await the horrid and wretched things you plan to say about me for holding these viewpoints and for having a different opinion than you do.

posted on Mar, 24 2015 @ 02:52 PM
a reply to: xuenchen

Right...I meant for all states everywhere. Not all states offer free IDs, from what I understand. But glad Wisconsin does.

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