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Trampling on the Papal Tiara & Royal Crown?

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posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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Apparently there is a degree ritual, the 30th degree, Grand Elect Knight Kadosh ......where the candidates for the degree trample on the Papal Tiara & royal crown, or destruction of skulls representing a papal skull and kings skull. What is the meaning of this ritual? What lesson does it impart?

[edit on 17-12-2004 by chief_counsellor]




posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 01:48 PM
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Here we go again...



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 01:51 PM
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The Scottish Rite's Knight Kadosh Degree (30th), honors de Molay. In that Degree's initiation ceremony, the candidate faces a table on which are three skulls. One is adorned with a papal tiara, a second has a regal crown, and the third skull is festooned with a laurel wreath, representing Jacques de Molay. The Grand Master of the Degree stabs the skull with the papal tiara as the candidate shouts "Down with Imposture! Down with crime!" The same procedure occurs regarding the skull with the royal crown. Finally, the candidate and the Master kneel before the skull adorned with the laurel leaf and say: "Everlasting glory to the immortal martyr of virtue." [i.e., de Molay].


Is this to which you refer to?
On Freemasonry and Other "Paranoid Fantasies"



seekerof



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof


The Scottish Rite's Knight Kadosh Degree (30th), honors de Molay. In that Degree's initiation ceremony, the candidate faces a table on which are three skulls. One is adorned with a papal tiara, a second has a regal crown, and the third skull is festooned with a laurel wreath, representing Jacques de Molay. The Grand Master of the Degree stabs the skull with the papal tiara as the candidate shouts "Down with Imposture! Down with crime!" The same procedure occurs regarding the skull with the royal crown. Finally, the candidate and the Master kneel before the skull adorned with the laurel leaf and say: "Everlasting glory to the immortal martyr of virtue." [i.e., de Molay].


Is this to which you refer to?
On Freemasonry and Other "Paranoid Fantasies"



seekerof


Yes, this is what I was referring to. Is this true?



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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I'm not sure, to be honest.
I am still looking for an explanation, but have not found one, nor think I fully will.
Perhaps, one of the freemason's/masons that visit this board will give a simple explanation, but I feel that with any ritual or ceremony of this type, an accurate and true answer may not be entirely revealed to non-freemasons/masons, etc.



seekerof

[edit on 17-12-2004 by Seekerof]


df1

posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Trampling on the Papal Tiara & Royal Crown?

It appears to me that catholicism is more of a cult or secret society than it is a religion, so my guess is that the ritual is anti-cult. How many skulls and other human skeletal remains are in the vatican archives? I suppose we will never know since most of the contents of the archives are kept secret except to the highest ranking members of the catholic cabal.
.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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II. FIRST APARTMENT
a. Candidate is seated in chair facing a mausoleum, which has on top a coffin bearing a knight. Below it are three skulls ~~ the Pope (Clement V), Jacques Burgundus Molensis, and Philip the Fair. He is told to reflect on the scene before him. He is goaded into proceeding with the ordeals. The Knight in the coffin rises up and asks him his wish, etc.

b. Candidate is charged to destroy the papal skull and the king's skull. First Oath is administered ~~ Punish Crime, Protect Innocence


Taken from www.antiqillum.com...



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Apparently there is a degree ritual, the 30th degree, Grand Elect Knight Kadosh ......where the candidates for the degree trample on the Papal Tiara & royal crown, or destruction of skulls representing a papal skull and kings skull. What is the meaning of this ritual? What lesson does it impart?


I seem to recall you asking the exact same question on The Lodge Room forum about 6 months ago. I also seem to recall you received your answers there, too.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 04:51 AM
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Masonic Light,

Could you provide a link to said thead on TLR...

Not believing either side of this without a bit of investigation.


It sounds as something that MIGHT have happened 150+ years ago.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Apparently there is a degree ritual, the 30th degree, Grand Elect Knight Kadosh ......where the candidates for the degree trample on the Papal Tiara & royal crown, or destruction of skulls representing a papal skull and kings skull. What is the meaning of this ritual? What lesson does it impart?


I seem to recall you asking the exact same question on The Lodge Room forum about 6 months ago. I also seem to recall you received your answers there, too.


Oh yeah, I forgot.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by DasBaldDog
Masonic Light,

Could you provide a link to said thead on TLR...

Not believing either side of this without a bit of investigation.


It sounds as something that MIGHT have happened 150+ years ago.


I think that thread was lost when Bro. Defoe switched servers on the forum, but I'll recap:

In several older versions of the 30, which is a Templar degree, the Candidate stomped on the crown of King Philip of France and the papal tiara of Pope Clement V. These were the two conspirators who imprisoned and executed the Knights Templars under false pretenses.

In the various versions of the rituals, it was explained to the Candidate that the crown does not represent legitimate political authority, but political tyranny; and that the tiara does not represent legitimate religious authority, but religious tyranny. While the Candidate smashed the Crown, he was required to utter the words "May tyranny perish from the earth!" When he destroyed the tiara, he recited "May intolerance cease to curse mankind!"

When the degree was revised by Albert Pike in the late 19th century, he eliminated this in several versions, but included it in others. He mentions in "Morals and Dogma" that he believes the meaning should be preserved, but he is also afraid that the act may be misinterpreted as implying destruction of the church and state, instead of merely separating them.

Eventually, it was decided to revise it by requiring the Candidate to remove the crown and tiara from the Altar during the ritual instead of destroying them; this is what is done in the current ritual. After they are removed, the tiara is replaced with the Shepherd's Crook of Faith, and the crown is replaced with the Roman Cap of Liberty, which represent legitimate religious and political authority respectively.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 02:17 AM
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Wow, It still surprises me how ignorant (not people here of course) can be. I'm no expert on Masonic ritual obviously but even if that ritual was completely made up it seems to me that there is a totally obvious good meaningful side that could be made up right along side the paranoid fantasy type explanations people keep looking for. Good Answer ML. More and more I am seeing just how bright and astute the majoirty of masons I've come into contact really are. To me if I were to read this some where I would naturally assume it was an ancient ritual that might have held different meaning way back when but I think symbolism is lost on todays society unfortunately.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Here is a copy of the ritual in English:
My abridged version from "The Book (1884)" suggests it to be "probably genuine."
www.stelling.nl...

The final lesson in the Scottish Rite is that adversity and opposition builds unity and creates strength.
It martyres the heretic, Jaque DeMolay - not that that should cause any offence to the Catholic church or Christianity in general...ummm should it?


[edit on 27-12-2004 by MrNECROS]



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Sorry to mix words about this, the ritual text is genuine in as far as all the bits from the abridged version are verbatim.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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A few quotes from the version of the 30 posted by Necros:

All things whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, do ye even so unto them. Do not unto another that which thou wouldest not wish he should do unto thee.

Think not that a mans life consists in the abundance of the things that he possesses.

O Omnipotent and Infinite Wisdom! Holy and Merciful accept the love and reverence which we endeavor to express through our words and ceremonies. Enable us to know how sacred is the performance of our duty toward the betterment of our fellow men. Sustain us, as with faltering steps, we try to walk in thy paths. Thou only art the light whose radiance can dissipate the darkness that surrounds us. Make us conscious that we are thy children, wander from the light as we may. Purify us, and give us strength for thy service, and hasten the hour when Honor, Virtue, and Truth shall reign in the hearts and actions of all men. So shall thy kingdom come. Amen.

Go forth as an advocate and defender of the principles of our Order. Protect poor and weary pilgrims; assist the weak, the injured, the needy, and the oppressed; confident that you will never betray your trust nor desert the banner of the Cross, for it has been, and, when truly interpreted, will ever continue to be, the glorious emblem of civil and religious liberty.

I arm you with this good sword. As a Knight and soldier of the Temple who has overcome the fear of death, go forth and prove yourself a true defender of the principles of our Order, and, while armed with steel outwardly, strive to be armed inwardly with Faith and Love; Faith in God, and Love for your fellow man.

Wow, this stuff sounds really evil. I'm gonna resign!




[edit on 27-12-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
It martyres the heretic, Jaque DeMolay - not that that should cause any offence to the Catholic church or Christianity in general...ummm should it?



Only if they are dim enough to believe that DeMolay was actually a heretic.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman


Only if they are dim enough to believe that DeMolay was actually a heretic.


Indeed. And it should certainly be noted that the Church itself now admits that the "heresy" of the Templars was a hoax.

New Advent, an online Roman Catholic encyclopedia, says:

The second disadvantage of this secrecy was, that it gave an opportunity to the enemies of the Templars, and they were numerous, to infer from this mystery every conceivable malicious supposition and base on it the monstrous imputations. The Templars were accused of spitting upon the Cross, of denying Christ, of permitting sodomy, of worshipping an idol, all in the most impenetrable secrecy. Such were the Middle Ages, when prejudice was so vehement that, to destroy an adversary, men did not recoil from inventing the most criminal charges. It will suffice to recall the similar, but even more ridiculous than ignominious accusations brought against Pope Boniface VIII by the same Philip the Fair.

The article goes on to claim that the persecution of the Templars was initiated by Philip the Fair only, and that the pope was innocent in the crime of condemning these just men to death, a claim which is not completely accurate.

www.newadvent.org...



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 01:37 AM
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This is what New Advent says about Jacques De Molay

www.newadvent.org...



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