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Revelation 12 & David at Baal-Perazim

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posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 04:20 PM
As some of you may have noticed, I have focused much of my scripture research on Satan lately, in an effort at getting this whole Satan thing down to earth and retrieve whatever truth and sense one can from it. Many Christians here have expressed their dismay and irritation when I treat Satan with the same respect as I do Jesus, and don't see Jesus as the infallible, sinless and spotless Santa-Son-of-God as the Church does. Anyway, I don't intend to back down to the pressure, and yet again, I will deliver my case as neutral and unbiased as possible, or in other words identify and smoke out the old serpent and perhaps get to squeeze a frog or two out of his mouth in the process (so much for unbiased huh?). So here goes.

And David came to Baal-perazim, and David defeated them there. And he said, “The LORD has broken through my enemies before me like a breaking flood.” Therefore the name of that place is called Baal-perazim. And the Philistines left their idols there, and David and his men carried them away. [ESV] 2 Samuel 5:20-21

The name of the place, rendered Baal-perazim in the quote above, is the name of an ancient battleground of uncertain exact location, but apparently located in borderland between the Rephaim- (Giants) and Gehenna- (Hell) Valleys to the south and west of Jerusalem.

The name is written Heb. בעל פרצים or “BAL PRZIM” (I note that seems to have a different spelling than my Stuttgartensia), but the closest word/name with the given lexical definition or semantics would be that of Heb. פרץ or “Perez” which means ‘Breaching/Breaking (in terms of flooding) Through’. Adjusting for plural you get Heb. פרצים “Perazim” lit. ’Breaches’ or ‘Breakthroughs’.

According to Smith’s Bible Dictionary on Perazim:

Mount, a name which occurs in ( Isaiah 28:21 ) only --unless the place which it designates is identical with the Baal-perazim mentioned as the scene of one of Davids victories over the Philistines, which was in the valley of Rephaim, south of Jerusalem, on the road to Bethlehem.

For the LORD will rise up as on Mount Perazim; as in the Valley of Gibeon he will be roused; to do his deed—strange is his deed! and to work his work—alien is his work! [ESV] Isaiah 28:21

In 2 Samuel 5:17-25 David defeats the Philistines, first at Baal-perazim, and then again in the Rephaim Valley (“Giants’ Valley”) where Jahveh suggests David surprise them with an ambush, sneaking up from the rear from Gibeon, chasing them as far as Gezer, where David kept in check his enemies.

When the route from Bethlehem to Jerusalem was secured, the road was clear to move the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem, and notice the funky name of the place the Ark was stored, בעלי יהודה or “Baale-judah”:

And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the LORD of hosts who sits enthroned on the cherubim.[ESV] 2 Samuel 6:2

Now is it just me or do these texts god far beyond naming both JHVH and Baal as names or titles of Elohim or God here? And what’s with the reference to the Giants, the Rephaim being a reknown race of giants, and Ben-Hinnom or Hell? Is this the place where the Son of God of Revelation 12 is born, where Satan spews water that seeks to sweep the Madonna away with a flood? Baal-perazim?

The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. [ESV] Revelation 12:15-16

Compare that verse to 2 Samuel 5:17-25 and onward. Could be it I suppose.
edit on 11-2-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 08:26 AM
Baal - also rendered Baʿal (Biblical Hebrew בַּעַל, pronounced [ˈbaʕal]), is a North-West Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord".

Semitic common noun baal (Hebrew baʿal) meant “owner” or “lord”

Encyclopedia Mythica:
The word Baal means "master" or "owner".

As the religions started to take form, the names also started to separate one from the other.

posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 08:44 AM
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Are you worried about the place name?


בַּ֫עַל מְּרָצִים proper name, of a location (possessor of breaches; or Baal of Perasim ?) where David defeated Philistine 2 Samuel 5:20 (twice in verse); 1 Chronicles 14:11 (twice in verse); site unknown.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Baal- perazim

From ba'al and the plural of perets; possessor of breaches; Baal-Peratsim, a place in Palestine -- Baal- perazim.

Strong's Concordance
Baal Peratsim: "possessor of breaches," a place in Palestine
Original Word: בַּ֫עַל
Part of Speech: Proper Name Location
Transliteration: Baal Peratsim
Phonetic Spelling: (bah'-al per-aw-tseem')
Short Definition: Baal-perazim

see HEBREW ba'al

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from baal
owner, lord
NASB Translation
allies* (1), archers* (1), bird* (1), bound (1), bridegroom (1), captain (1), case* (1), charmer* (1), citizens (1), creditor* (1), dominant (1), dreamer* (1), due (1), husband (8), husbands (2), leaders (6), lords (1), man (3), married* (2), master's (1), masters (1), men (14), owner (15), owners (2), possessors (2), relative by marriage (1), schemer* (1), who has (1), who practice (1), wrathful* (1).

This is using this word בְּבַֽעַל־ bə-ḇa-‘al- as a preposition alongside the noun פְּרָצִים֮ or pə-rā-ṣîm. It is not using it as a noun, or in the form of a noun, it is from ba'al, but it not used as a noun....

posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 12:02 PM
a reply to: OpinionatedB

In biblical Hebrew there are four different kinds of prepositions:
==> A: Inseperable, B: Maqqef, C: Indipendent and D: Compound prepositions.

The preposition in this case, is an inseperable preposition which melts together with the noun as a voiced prefix written as part of the noun, Hebrew is full of these kinds of constructs. The Ba- or Be- prefix in ba-baal is the preposition in question which means in, by or with, while baal is the noun, making the construct babaal, giving a translation for "ba-Baal Perashim" to be 'At Baal-Perashim' (alt. 'In Baal-Perashim'). Just as the text says.

And to answer your initial question: No, I don't fear much in life. Names of places and gods being among the least of these fears. I study religion and prophecy and interpret John's vision of a dragon (baal) spewing out water (perashim) is nothing other than a subtle geographical reference. To Baal Perashim and what happened there, how David conquered the Philistines which thereby marks the starting-point for the Kingdom of David AKA Throne of the Messiah.
edit on 13-2-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)

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