Chapel Hill shooting: Craig Stephen Hicks condemned all religions on Facebook prior to 'Muslim mass

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Annee

She could have hid the guns. Better he turns violent against his own than another's. Doing nothing is just denial. We do not allow brother to have weapons and his wife assists us with that. At least, we can say we tried. And the police know about him because he has a record of previous violence. If we have to take him down ourselves, there is at least a paper trail of his history.

Of course she is divorcing him.

First off, you don't know this woman. You don't know if she tried to do something.

There are a lot of angry men and women in society. You can't guess which one will get triggered to act on it.

"Better that he kill his own family then the neighbors" ----- you really just said that.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Did you actually read the article?

He isn't just an anti-theist who believes in a deity outside of the known religions...

He's a God Delusion reading, atheism promoting lunatic who's favourite programme was about Atheism.

& I didn't lump him in with any atheists.

But he is one, clearly. Albeit anti-theism atheist... Yes they exist.




@NetworkDude...

Parking space lol.


Sure...

Have you considered that he is struggling with his southern US Christian up-bringing and that's why he's so attached to atheism? Liking those TV shows and reading the God Delusion does not equate to atheism anymore than me reading the Bible equates me to Christianity.

If he really hated all religions equally his rage should be directed at all religions, not specifically Islam. So...
1. This really is a nut job losing it over a parking space and the targets happened to be Muslim
2. He wasn't as atheist as you think he was or is being painted and hated Muslims more

I'm going with - he was a nut job that was struggling with his religious identity and perhaps other things in life.

In fact, in the good old USA I bet you'd be hard pressed to find any atheist in the USA that claims to hate Islam over Christianity given the indoctrination level here, especially in the Southern USA. It's why this isn't passing the sniff test for me.

I'm questioning the reports of his true atheism given his rage toward Muslims over a parking space.

a reply to: Annee

Yes, we mean it. And that may be why he has been controlled, he knows we mean it. What I mean is, we don't let him intimidate us. He can go live on the streets if he does not like it. He already went to prison for beating his first wife. We keep in mind he could turn violent on us.

Again, she could have taken the guns. The neighborhood was afraid of him. And he had flashed guns at them. Stupid not to call the police for a record. That is the least his wife could have done. You and I won't agree on this, just the way it is til they address our mental health system.

a reply to: WCmutant

His profile image on facebook was "Atheists For Equality."...

And police have said this;
"We understand the concerns about the possibility that this was hate-motivated, and we will exhaust every lead to determine if that is the case." Chapel Hill police Chief Chris Blue said in an email.




So really it's way to early to say anything other than an anti-theist atheist killed 3 Muslims after previous altercations involving a parking space.



An atheist doesn't believe and lives freely with an ideology that the best thing to do is let others live freely with their beliefs...

An anti-theist atheist is a dangerous type of person who has thoughts of eradicating religion by whatever means they see fit...



I'm not saying this was a hate crime...

But he was the latter, so we'll have to wait and see.



& even if it was, I don't think he would only target Muslims.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Thanks for your thoughts and reply on this. It really does require a lot of thinking, and then when you think you've got it, you read something like your and mOjOm's thoughts and you need to think some more.

The killing "out of love for" thing....I don't know. unless the person was in immediate danger, without knowing miore, well I just don't see that as sane.

Love the quotes too, the first and last anyway. Thanks again.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

So really it's way to early to say anything other than an anti-theist atheist killed 3 Muslims after previous altercations involving a parking space.

The problem with that being the way you describe it implies that him being atheist and them being Muslim had something to do with this even though as of yet there is no indication that it does. Not only that but there is actually another reason that's been given for why it might have happened that has nothing to do with ideology at all. So adding in or implying something else is, as of yet, misleading and it's been done that way on purpose to stir up an emotional response which is not honest reporting.

It could have also read "Husband kills 3 College Students over Parking Space Argument" or "3 family members killed by neighbor over ongoing dispute". Those are also just as true but lack the emotional response wanted by media whores looking for attention. (I'm talking about the media BTW not you. Just thought I'd make that clear.)

An atheist doesn't believe and lives freely with an ideology that the best thing to do is let others live freely with their beliefs...

An anti-theist atheist is a dangerous type of person who has thoughts of eradicating religion by whatever means they see fit...

Double standard. All atheists don't have the same ideology or beliefs. Whether they're anti-theist or just plain atheist it's incorrect to classify and define individuals that way. Unless of course you don't have a problem with me classifying and defining "Christian's" and "Muslims" and "Jews" etc.. in the same way which I don't think you would agree is fair either. To say "Christians believe..." (insert some parameter of being christian) and use it to include all Christians is not being honest and it's not honest for atheists either.

I'm not saying this was a hate crime...

But he was the latter, so we'll have to wait and see.

& even if it was, I don't think he would only target Muslims.

I agree that I also don't think it was a hate crime. I think it was a crime similar to Road Rage. People fly off the handle all the time and sometimes go way too far before they realize what they've done. I don't think Religious Ideology had anything to do with it. I think he was just frustrated with life in general and with these people and he let his anger get the best of him.

I could be wrong however. I don't know for sure. To me it's just a far stretch to imagine that he was driven by ideological motives that he'd go hunt down some innocent Muslims and kill them for that alone. It just seems so much more believable to me that he was your typical angry, gun loving, patriotic, american, bully who became completely unhinged over a parking spot and thought he'd solve his problems with violence rather than reason and it went way too far and some decent innocent people were killed.

a reply to: mOjOm

So what about "atheists don't believe in God but live freely and let others live freely with their beliefs" is untrue?

What is dishonest about that?

How is that ideology wrong or a double standard?



Added with the "just don't shove it down my throat" schtick that's exactly how atheists describe themselves.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

No that's probably a fairly good overall way of defining them. The anti-theist definition wasn't too bad either. But I'm not saying you're wrong in saying it or that they don't apply in a general sense. Just that in conversations like this it's the generalizations that lead to problems. Even more so when they are being used by someone who's not part of the group they're talking about.

If a Christian starts defining what it is to be Christian, it's still painting to broadly but at least they are included within the group they are speaking about. For example, do you not find it more insulting and pointless when an Atheist tells you what it is to be (whatever religion you are) versus someone who is also of your same belief?? It comes off as arrogant and insulting on their part for speaking about a group in which they aren't even part of.

So don't take what I said the wrong way or anything. I'm not saying you're totally incorrect in your statement, just that it's best not to use such broad definitions when speaking about this one guy who's an atheist. Just like it wouldn't be fair to speculate on how much his victims were of the muslim faith. They might have been very non traditional muslims and he may have been only atheist by his own standards.

a reply to: mOjOm

Yes that's why I seperated the two.

I did paint atheists together, but in a good light if you read it carefully.
I wouldn't generalise all atheists in a negative way, nor anyone else.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You know what this case kinda reminds me of?? Do you remember about a year ago when that guy shot up that car full of black kids for playing their music too loud??? They got into some kind of argument over it and dude just pulls a gun and starts blasting everyone in the car. He was an older man, conservative, suit and tie kind of a guy.

The media immediately played it as Racists White Man Kills Black Teens for Loud Music. Now, was it a crime based on race??? No. Was this man a racist?? Probably a little. But the crime itself wasn't about race. It was about an older man frustrated with the youth of today and the disrespect they were showing him. Now, some racial undertones may have played a part but the crime itself wasn't about Ideology. It was about a guy losing his sh*t for a stupid reason, taking it way too far and trying to solve his issues and problems with violence instead of reason because simply beating or shooting your problems away seems much easier than investing the energy it takes to actually solve them properly.

I think something similar happened here.

Thousands attend memorial in Chapel Hill;

www.wncn.com...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think you desperately want him to be a rage filled atheist that hates Muslim more than any other religion.

The problem is there is plenty of evidence that shows, while atheist, he was relatively tolerant of Muslims. He actually defended the right of Muslims to build a mosque near Ground Zero on a forum in 2010.

Maybe when you take a step back and realize that people kill people over stupid # that doesn't have anything to do with their religion, you might realize that YOU want this to be a rage filled atheist targeting three Muslims when it doesn't really look that way.

Orange County, NC (my neighboring county, mind you) has a fairly small population of Muslims. It's a predominantly Christian city, surprise - it's the South.

Every murder is technically a hate crime. Rage is most often involved. However, his rage was directed at three individuals that happened to be Muslim.

What you may not know is Saturn (Sagittarius/education, religion, medicine, laws, young men) is squaring Neptune (Pisces/dreams, illusions and delusions) and is causing us to really question the true nature of "hate crime" and murder in general. It's causing people like you, CharlieSpeirs, to label this a hate crime. If you know anything about your own astrology you could be also being affected by Saturn in Sag and/or Neptune in Pisces, making you more inclined to ascribe hate crime to this act of violence.

1. Barakat - young man, Muslim, dentistry (medicine), killed near a university (education): Barakat himself was also a Sagittarius, no doubt that he is a model citizen - a great many Sagittarians are.

The dreams and delusions that are being stirred is that this MUST be a hate crime. It must be!!! No, it really mustn't. Saturn in Sagittarius is reminding us that evil doesn't stem from a certain religion nor does it have to be about religion. Neptune in Pisces is trying to keep that illusion alive. (Why is that illusion important? Because it directly relates to the creation of Al Qaeda and ISIS/ISIL.)

On Feb 10, 2015 Saturn was in the First Decan of Sagittarius and conjuct the fixed star of Dschubba. Saturn + Dschubba signifies the early death of the favorite child (among other things), which maybe the case for Deah Shabby Barakat - the male victim.

Also, there was a lot of hard aspects - squares and oppositions between both Hicks, Barakat, and Razan. I haven't been able to find Yusor's DOB so I can't verify anything about her relative to Hicks.

Hicks himself had some very bad natal aspects, and on Feb 10, 2015 Mars in Pisces was transiting directly opposite Hick's natal Uranus conjunct Pluto. In fact, I will just quote (so you know I'm not pulling this out of my arse) from an astrology website what Transit Mars opposite Uranus can do: Astro Link

Transit Mars opposite Natal Uranus
The sheer level of physical and nervous energy you experience during this time is very difficult to control. It seems that every little thing that can go wrong is going wrong, and there may be nothing you can do about it. You’re more likely over-reacting to every little thing and expending enormous energy on acting out your frustration, such as throwing a temper tantrum or being unusually stubborn, even if you’re not normally prone to this behavior. You may shock other people as well as yourself and need to watch sudden outbursts that you’ll surely regret later.

This wasn't the only negative transiting aspect Hicks had. For example, transiting Neptune was square his Natal Moon which was conjunct transiting Saturn (and there is more).

Again, while I view most murder as hate crime there is a human element you and many are missing. What you are going to find is that as much as YOU WANT this to be a religious-based hate crime, it wasn't. I know that's hard to hear because it seems that many want this to be a hate crime. I can promise you it was not. This was an on edge human being further exacerbated by transiting Mars lashing out and now fully regretting it.

Hope this helps some. There is a lot more to it, I just tried to keep it succinct as possible, and hit some important aspect so that it didn't make folks' eyes glaze over.

a reply to: WCmutant

That tolerance can disappear in a second...

People do change their minds.



However you can think whatever you like, I've been very specific in this thread and haven't speculated on the cause except to say I think the parking space narrative is a poor excuse.



I never said it was a hate crime either...

Nor have I said I want it to be one, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard all day.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You are right, you didn't exactly use the terms "hate crime." You did use the terms "Atheist Extremist" in your OP, apparently satirical. It does lend to the subtext of the satire that instead of saying "this is a hate crime" you say "I don't buy the parking space theory." This merely suggests you don't think it's possible that he killed them over parking space rage and would be more inclined to believe he killed them because they were Muslim.

It's a kin to the human mind saying "I hate gay people" and then getting caught with your pants down hugged up on a male prostitute. (A little conservative political joke there.)

And I know you don't like the parking spot narrative. I've already presented the reasons this nut cracked. Like it or not, it was simple wrong place, wrong time + highly energized angry man. It's the same thing that propelled Amanda Berry out of that house in May 2013 (Mars conjunct her Pluto). The same influences that brought the NYSE to it's very bottom in March 2009 (Pluto opposite the USA's Venus). I could go on.

It's the same reasons the world and the USA have been in a state of flux and on the edge of major changes that a great many people can feel. But I'm working on a completely separate post to explain what's coming. November 2015, expect something similar to the Chapel Hill incident - one that causes us to question religion and hate, as Neptune and Saturn will be in a much tighter square then.

Cheers!

a reply to: WCmutant

I'm much more inclined to believe he was mentally ill rather than it being a parking space crime or a hate crime.

Even Obama is upset....because it's now Muslims and not just some [Jewish] "folks".

(Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama described the deaths of three young Muslims gunned down in North Carolina as "brutal and outrageous murders" on Friday and said no one in the United States should be targeted for their religion.

The president's statement came as the U.S. Justice Department said it would join the FBI's preliminary inquiry to determine whether the man accused in the Chapel Hill shooting on Tuesday broke any federal laws, including hate crime laws.

"No one in the United States of America should ever be targeted because of who they are, what they look like, or how they worship," Obama said in a statement, offering his condolences to the victims' families.

www.reuters.com...

Ya mess with the dark side, ya pay:

originally posted by: StoutBroux



The president's statement came as the U.S. Justice Department said it would join the FBI's preliminary inquiry to determine whether the man accused in the Chapel Hill shooting on Tuesday broke any federal laws, including hate crime laws.


I love how its somehow worse to kill someone because you "hate them".
Cause you know... if you kill someone who you don't personally hate it somehow makes them less dead.

edit on 13-2-2015 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: starviego

Did you read the sign in your picture?

It's a Wolfpack hand signal.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: starviego

Did you read the sign in your picture?

It's a Wolfpack hand signal.

Like from Pro Wrestling in the 90's? LOL