Protesters storm police headquarters in downtown St. Louis; 5 arrests made

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: onequestion
PSA: I'm not trolling, just can't find anything about Hayes at all and not sure what all went down with Flanery besides what I posted.

It sounds good, like a 90's cop movie.

"Tonight...Flannery and Hayes, a Quinn Martin production!"

This is going to go badly for the protestors and here is why:

The first thing, is that protesting is acceptable. That is not at issue. However, now the protestors are playing with fire and one can hope that it does not backfire, but there is a good chance that it will.

Protesting the police is fine, but what will it do? Absolutely nothing. Shutting down the police station, only gives the government the excuse to exercise and ask for martial law to be imposed. People and protestors are not thinking and as a prior poster pointed out, it is at the wrong people. The police are doing a job, just like many others, having rules and laws that they have to follow. The very people who need to be protested and or removed, is not the police, but the city councils, state governments and legislatures that hire, make the rules, and laws. They are the ones that pay the bills, make the rules, hire, and make the laws. Too often the very people who are in office are incumbents, who do not fear anything and often think that they are beyond reproach.

And what did the protestors think that this was going to accomplish by trying to take over a police department? That they will get what they want? No, it is going to go badly on them. Nothing will change, except that the laws will change to restrict and those who break the law may end up punished harder and far worse. Or worse, the police may just pull back and then what happens when someone needs EMS and the services are not there to assist, who then is to blame, the police, or those who are preventing the police?

The solution, is a lot more simple than what these protestors would state, it is simply to vote. And not for the same people who are in office, removing those who are in office by recalling them. Creating a hazard to public safety will only turn against them.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

First off, lets not jump to conclusions.

Secondly, if they seriously implement marshall law its going to escalate.

This is utterly unacceptable. So these people are complaining about the violation of human rights as well as violations in the law, etc., yet they themselves are breaking the law and violating human rights. It is simply absurd. This proves that they care nothing for the things they claim to care about, and this is painfully obvious. Those participating in such violent and ILLEGAL acts are NOT fixing anything, but are making things much worse for not only themselves, but for everyone else. Their premise is wrong to begin with anyway, but I've outlined this point in two threads over the last few days already, and will not reiterate my propositions that support my hypothesis, that hypothesis being that there is not a war being waged by police against black people. It is ridiculous, evidenced by the fact that such "protests" break out even when the person who was shot by the police was engaging in highly criminal behavior and was threatening the life of a police officer. Given that such a fact is completely ignored to support the incorrect conclusions of some, the true motive becomes apparent.

I mean how are people not seeing these things for what they truly are? Do people honestly believe that all white people are racist, and that the police or everyone else is out to kill black people? I blame the media for much of this, considering that they only push stories in which a black person is harmed or killed by a white person, despite the fact that non-black people suffer at the hands of black people every single day. This does not get the headlines however. There is an agenda at work, and I refuse to participate in the continuation of this nonsense when I know it to be just that. But there are those who believe it because either they have their own agenda, choose to ignore the plethora of instances I described, or they are unaware of the existence of such incidences. The most vocal individuals always seem to be the ones who have the fewest facts.

I cannot believe that there are people, like the OP, supporting the raiding of a police station. You CANNOT violate the rights of anyone, police included, just because you feel wronged. Even if you were wronged, which is not the case in this instance. The vast majority of these people, or even none of them, have anything to do with what supposedly started all this. It is their incorrect perception that they have been wronged that is justifying such acts in their minds. You cannot claim to want to put an end to criminal behavior and then become a criminal yourself. And the government and police have every right to fight back in such an instance, and they should. Order needs to be maintained, and if one wishes to change something they need to go about it in the right way. The truth of the matter is that many of these people are looking for an excuse, or are using this as an excuse, to be barbaric animals. The law allows protesting in certain instances, and there are rules when it comes to protesting precisely so things like this don't happen. When you get a bunch of crazy people together without any order, bad things will happen, thus measures are enacted to ensure that protests go off peaceably.

And another thing. These people do not care about the innocents that are caught in the middle. What about the rights of those people? So apparently it is alright to get what you perceive to be "justice," despite the fact that you are going about it in a way that does more harm to innocents. And who do these people think are going to pay for all the damage they've caused? Apparently those participating in such barbaric acts are not intelligent enough to realize that they are hurting their community even more, considering that it is local tax money that will be taken away from other places that will fix the damages. Maybe if they instead focused on building their community, and put as much energy into positive things instead of destructive things, they would realize that they are the main people halting progress in these areas. These people, the apathetic, those who care nothing about other people or the rights of others, etc., do absolutely nothing to fix the real issues and better their own communities, but they turn out in droves for the destruction of that same community. These types of individuals deserve each other, and they also should be in jail. There is no place in society for those who openly disregard the rights of others. And this is especially so when they claim to be fighting for a cause, yet their actions make it plainly obvious that they don't give two craps about what they claim to be fighting for.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus
they have not violated any human rights that i have read about

your wording is a bit off.
they did not raid the station

they are not saying all people are racist. they specifically listed two individuals that they have problems with. likely they are know problem cops

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
This is utterly unacceptable. So these people are complaining about the violation of human rights as well as violations in the law, etc., yet they themselves are breaking the law and violating human rights. It is simply absurd. This proves that they care nothing for the things they claim to care about, and this is painfully obvious. Those participating in such violent and ILLEGAL acts are NOT fixing anything, but are making things much worse for not only themselves, but for everyone else. Their premise is wrong to begin with anyway, but I've outlined this point in two threads over the last few days already, and will not reiterate my propositions that support my hypothesis, that hypothesis being that there is not a war being waged by police against black people. It is ridiculous, evidenced by the fact that such "protests" break out even when the person who was shot by the police was engaging in highly criminal behavior and was threatening the life of a police officer. Given that such a fact is completely ignored to support the incorrect conclusions of some, the true motive becomes apparent.

I mean how are people not seeing these things for what they truly are? Do people honestly believe that all white people are racist, and that the police or everyone else is out to kill black people? I blame the media for much of this, considering that they only push stories in which a black person is harmed or killed by a white person, despite the fact that non-black people suffer at the hands of black people every single day. This does not get the headlines however. There is an agenda at work, and I refuse to participate in the continuation of this nonsense when I know it to be just that. But there are those who believe it because either they have their own agenda, choose to ignore the plethora of instances I described, or they are unaware of the existence of such incidences. The most vocal individuals always seem to be the ones who have the fewest facts.

I cannot believe that there are people, like the OP, supporting the raiding of a police station. You CANNOT violate the rights of anyone, police included, just because you feel wronged. Even if you were wronged, which is not the case in this instance. The vast majority of these people, or even none of them, have anything to do with what supposedly started all this. It is their incorrect perception that they have been wronged that is justifying such acts in their minds. You cannot claim to want to put an end to criminal behavior and then become a criminal yourself. And the government and police have every right to fight back in such an instance, and they should. Order needs to be maintained, and if one wishes to change something they need to go about it in the right way. The truth of the matter is that many of these people are looking for an excuse, or are using this as an excuse, to be barbaric animals. The law allows protesting in certain instances, and there are rules when it comes to protesting precisely so things like this don't happen. When you get a bunch of crazy people together without any order, bad things will happen, thus measures are enacted to ensure that protests go off peaceably.

And another thing. These people do not care about the innocents that are caught in the middle. What about the rights of those people? So apparently it is alright to get what you perceive to be "justice," despite the fact that you are going about it in a way that does more harm to innocents. And who do these people think are going to pay for all the damage they've caused? Apparently those participating in such barbaric acts are not intelligent enough to realize that they are hurting their community even more, considering that it is local tax money that will be taken away from other places that will fix the damages. Maybe if they instead focused on building their community, and put as much energy into positive things instead of destructive things, they would realize that they are the main people halting progress in these areas. These people, the apathetic, those who care nothing about other people or the rights of others, etc., do absolutely nothing to fix the real issues and better their own communities, but they turn out in droves for the destruction of that same community. These types of individuals deserve each other, and they also should be in jail. There is no place in society for those who openly disregard the rights of others. And this is especially so when they claim to be fighting for a cause, yet their actions make it plainly obvious that they don't give two craps about what they claim to be fighting for.

Awesome post!

This thinking really shines the light on what a low level the MSM is playing. Instead of fanning the flames somebody in either the MSM or in a position of leadership should come out and say what you just said.

Only problem is, everybody fanning the flames benefits by fanning the flames.

And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

originally posted by: Jamie1
And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

Or the poor, uneducated, disillusioned, and scared can tear the entire machine down. History shows that that works too.

a reply to: Jamie1

i actually thought i was listening to fox news when i read it.
Yes the wording is great but the majority of the post is falsely based.
there was no violence and the innocents are being paid by the county to deal with the public
at some point they will have to hear and adhere to the will of the people
the vote has been subverted long ago
it is clear that the public feels like they have no choice
the demands are doable for the most part and compromise should be reached at some point soon
this town there has been a hotbed for racism both ways since the gov. first stepped in and made blacks move next to whites
that is why the high tensions this is leftovers of gov. intervention
time to clean it up a bit
if one does not listen to the people they will continue the problems until there is great death

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1

And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

Or the poor, uneducated, disillusioned, and scared can tear the entire machine down. History shows that that works too.

that is it
it is asking c- students to run for office
they had to do dirt just to get to this point without gettin shot or locked up
no not all blacks are c students but there is a gap between the quality of education attained for the most part
yes the finger can be pointed in either direction on that one

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1
And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

Or the poor, uneducated, disillusioned, and scared can tear the entire machine down. History shows that that works too.

Maybe the poor, uneducated, and scared should educate themselves and make something of their lives instead of mindlessly destroying the life's work of others in their neighborhood.

I'm still not sure what they're protesting. Thugs suffered consequences for being thugs. A grand jury saw all the evidence, heard all the witnesses, and make a determination.

What is the perceived injustice they're protesting?

a reply to: Jamie1

The inequality of institutional racism that pervades this country.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1

And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

Or the poor, uneducated, disillusioned, and scared can tear the entire machine down. History shows that that works too.

Maybe the poor, uneducated, and scared should educate themselves and make something of their lives instead of mindlessly destroying the life's work of others in their neighborhood.



I'm still not sure what they're protesting. Thugs suffered consequences for being thugs. A grand jury saw all the evidence, heard all the witnesses, and make a determination.



What is the perceived injustice they're protesting?

really thugs suffered?
The thug that was beside the slain is now working for the city
that is what happens when you change your testimony and play ball with the ones covering up the fact that brown was on his knees with his hands in the air when he was shot in the head.

originally posted by: DrJunk
a reply to: Jamie1

The inequality of institutional racism that pervades this country.

They'd be better off working hard. Or realizing they're about 50 years late. The injustices of 50 years ago are now replaced by perceived injustices like Target showing a white Annie in their ads, and thugs being shot while threatening police.

It's much easier to blame society than to get up early and work hard, maybe even go to school and get an education.

Why is it that immigrants from every country on the planet show up here and run successful business? How is it that Obama went to Columbia and Harvard, and was elected President in this country?

WTF.... learned helplessness and blaming "the man" doesn't serve anything.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1

And there's more than just voting. There's running for office. If everybody who complained actually ran for office to do something about the problems they're complaining about, it would be easier to take them seriously.

Or the poor, uneducated, disillusioned, and scared can tear the entire machine down. History shows that that works too.

Maybe the poor, uneducated, and scared should educate themselves and make something of their lives instead of mindlessly destroying the life's work of others in their neighborhood.



I'm still not sure what they're protesting. Thugs suffered consequences for being thugs. A grand jury saw all the evidence, heard all the witnesses, and make a determination.



What is the perceived injustice they're protesting?

really thugs suffered?
The thug that was beside the slain is now working for the city
that is what happens when you change your testimony and play ball with the ones covering up the fact that brown was on his knees with his hands in the air when he was shot in the head.

And you've seen more evidence than the Grand Jury, right?

I'm guessing you missed the part about the trail of blood leading towards Wilson, and the shots fired in the police SUV, and Brown's blood in the SUV, and all the witnesses who corroborated Wilson's account of the shooting.

a reply to: Jamie1

actually i made a thread about it and proved that wilsons statments to the gj were false.
simply put there was no concievable way that what he statd as truth could have happened.
it is too late for me too find it now but it is in my thread list.
i am all for the police doing their job and staying safe but lies i have a hard time with.
some of the witnesses are still mia and a couple are dead
in that particular case the cop was in the wrong


now you make the case for immagrants working harder and that is true but lets be clear they have more incintive to work hard in the us then take their pay home and have it be worth 10 times the amount that it is worth to us

if every american that is jobless was offered an 80$ an hr job tomorrow then we would not have as many problems we have now
i am pro immigration but i also see why they are so eager to come here and work so hard
just simply stating that people should get off their ass and do other things beside the current is not a real solution
because in the society we have built there is only room for a certain number at the top
there are ways to adjust society to offer more to more but you have certain pockets of folks that like it the way it is
i am usually pretty good at recoginizing spiritual thngs and i see who you present yourself to be and who you are
thanks for hangin with ats tonite and happy new year

I see real change on the horizon for St Louis. Puts a little more light on what all the concrete barriers being put in over the years are for.

Cordon, sweep, and mop.

a reply to: onequestion

If the police and law enforcement are unable to do their job, then the government will have no option but to declare a state of emergency and ask to declare curfews and martial laws to restore order and to keep the peace.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Jamie1

actually i made a thread about it and proved that wilsons statments to the gj were false.
simply put there was no concievable way that what he statd as truth could have happened.
it is too late for me too find it now but it is in my thread list.
i am all for the police doing their job and staying safe but lies i have a hard time with.
some of the witnesses are still mia and a couple are dead
in that particular case the cop was in the wrong


now you make the case for immagrants working harder and that is true but lets be clear they have more incintive to work hard in the us then take their pay home and have it be worth 10 times the amount that it is worth to us

if every american that is jobless was offered an 80$ an hr job tomorrow then we would not have as many problems we have now
i am pro immigration but i also see why they are so eager to come here and work so hard
just simply stating that people should get off their ass and do other things beside the current is not a real solution
because in the society we have built there is only room for a certain number at the top
there are ways to adjust society to offer more to more but you have certain pockets of folks that like it the way it is
i am usually pretty good at recoginizing spiritual thngs and i see who you present yourself to be and who you are
thanks for hangin with ats tonite and happy new year

The option of getting off their assess and doing something besides what they're doing IS the only option if they want to change their quality of life.

Blaming their poverty on their skin color does not serve them.

Let's say you're right and Wilson's version was a lie, and justice wasn't served. Let's say we can have a redo and Wilson goes on trial and is found guilty. All the protesters celebrate like they did after the O.J. trial.

Now what?

Are they making more money? Is there less crime in their neighborhood? Are more going to college?

While they're out protesting the perceived injustices other people are home working on making their lives better. It's really not complicated. Some people try to make their own lives better, while some try to make other people's lives worse.

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I guess it comes down to how many brick walls you want to bash your head on before you realize it's for nothing. Nice is all fine and dandy but never gets the job done. The flip side is violence. It isn't getting anything done either. There is a balance in all things. I'm still waiting for the equilibrium.