Stay Away From Antibiotics!

Wow! Good information to be found in the OP. About 8 months ago I endured 30 days straight of antibiotics and it ruined my gut and its still out of whack.
Yep took probiotics like a soldier takes orders but the problem I think was I did not start them soon enough?

I should also add that during that time frame I had two surgery's as well so I received the antibiotic IV infusion twice during that 30 day period.
My digestion system is a complete mess at this moment and has never been near "Normal" since March of this year.

Many thanks for presenting a great thread with lots of information.

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Turq1

First, antibiotic resistant bacteria isn't a reason to avoid antibiotics, if you have a reason for taking it.

Options would have to be weighed and the question of "does the good outweigh the bad" would have to be taken into consideration. Antibiotic resistant bacteria would cause the intake of antibiotics to go up in efforts to counter the ailment. As the numerous studies show, there are serious complications arising from abundant use.

Nurse here. I never take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary (which has been more than 4 years now.)

I push Lactobacillus plantarum 299v on all my patients after surgery or who feel like they are coming down with something. I take it daily and haven't had a sniffle since 2008 (work in a hospital and nursing home.) If I were to take antibiotics I would start the probiotic in a double dose the entire time I was prescribed the anti.

We, nursing staff, are given zpaks like candy, and mupirocin for MRSA readily and easily. I have coworkers who get MRSA here and there and are constantly on something and it is constantly coming back. ::facepalm::

Keep in mind people there's a colony of GOOD bacteria on everyone's gut. These bacteria are your free workers in helping rid your body of toxins....

Now antibiotics can also kill these GOOD bacteria. So you are left to yourself to rid your body of toxins.


Last time I went sick was over two years ago, it was also the last time I took medicines (including antibiotics) and food supplements. Coincidence??

originally posted by: MojaveBurning
I think it's important to note that people should "stay away from Unnecessary Overuse of Antibiotics". There's a time and a place for everything, and in my opinion the overuse of them is the biggest problem, not just the antibiotics themselves.

I believe that most of the main reasons you mentioned probably occur because of overuse of antibiotics, not just antibiotics in general. It's a distinction that should be made. This is an interesting topic, I'm excited to see what else ATS has to say on the subject.

This. Antibiotics have saved millions of lives since their discovery. Before them, a simple cut or a case of pneumonia would be often fatal. Proper use is beneficial. Misuse and overuse are where the problem is.

a reply to: rickymouse

Potato Starch? Fasting? Supposed to help reset that gut biome, at least that is what I read

Without Antibiotics the world would be far less populated place.
In General if you take them or not, you'll get better in the roughly same time, unless there a good reason to be taking them.

Don't mess around with persistent lung infections, as they can kill you quick and unexpectedly.
Also STDs.

In these cases take antibiotics.

No doubt we will enter a new dark age of medicine, where superbugs rule the roost.
These will be scary times.


It is interesting to note that as long a antibiotics are available, there is not a huge difference in average life expectancy in mostly uninsured populations, than in completely overly insured populations.

a reply to: rom12345


People would pass down natural cures for things in the past but we were conditioned over the years to ignore these things and take antibiotics instead. The problem came when a lot of new chemicals were added to the food that unbalanced people's gut flora, killing off a lot of beneficial bacteria. They know this now, it is all over the health news and this should not be ignored. Antibiotics are necessary sometimes though, but we need to be aware of the other things that are needed for our immune system to work properly.

Antibiotics are often based off of the knowledge of the excretions of the microbes. What one microbe excretes can kill other microbes. Medicine has learned to understand the chemistry of these excretions but doctors sort of guess, based on certain symptoms, which of this chemistry to prescribe. There are problems sometimes as the microbes interact with our immune system and the symptoms don't always manifest the same for all people. So sometimes the wrong antibiotics are given. Also, you can have a virus which lowers body temperature coupled with a bacteria which would normally increase the body temperature and this could cause a misdiagnosis.

We need a better way of diagnosing what microbes and or viruses are causing our problems. We also should have our DNA analyzed to find if we have increased susceptibility to certain genetic problems. A simple reduction in the enzymes in the methylization cycle can lower our ability to fight. In about a decade we will have more knowledge in the field of DNA interactions with the immune response to give us a better chance of identifying problems. But for now, we got what we got.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: rom12345


People would pass down natural cures for things in the past but we were conditioned over the years to ignore these things and take antibiotics instead. The problem came when a lot of new chemicals were added to the food that unbalanced people's gut flora, killing off a lot of beneficial bacteria. They know this now, it is all over the health news and this should not be ignored. Antibiotics are necessary sometimes though, but we need to be aware of the other things that are needed for our immune system to work properly.

Antibiotics are often based off of the knowledge of the excretions of the microbes. What one microbe excretes can kill other microbes. Medicine has learned to understand the chemistry of these excretions but doctors sort of guess, based on certain symptoms, which of this chemistry to prescribe. There are problems sometimes as the microbes interact with our immune system and the symptoms don't always manifest the same for all people. So sometimes the wrong antibiotics are given. Also, you can have a virus which lowers body temperature coupled with a bacteria which would normally increase the body temperature and this could cause a misdiagnosis.

We need a better way of diagnosing what microbes and or viruses are causing our problems. We also should have our DNA analyzed to find if we have increased susceptibility to certain genetic problems. A simple reduction in the enzymes in the methylization cycle can lower our ability to fight. In about a decade we will have more knowledge in the field of DNA interactions with the immune response to give us a better chance of identifying problems. But for now, we got what we got.

With respect, there is so much wrong in the above.

First of all, antibiotics are not based on the "excretions" of other microbes. There are based on the structural and genetic makeup of the target microbe and designed to defeat either the replicative cycle, the defensive capsule, or the metabolism of the microbe in question. Many antibiotics are based on the action of various natural antibiotics such as the penicillin mold, for example.

"Guess" is not exactly accurate. Antibiotics are often initially prescribed based on symptoms and the statistical probability that a certain microbe is causing a certain problem. Various microbes are known to cause specific diseases, so a prescription for a Chlamydial infection, for example, is not a guess, it is evidence based and based on appositive chlamydial culture. In addition, antibiotic treatment is often guided, especially in hospital, by culturing the microbe in question and then testing various antibiotics against said culture to use the most efficient antibiotic. This is known as a "culture and sensitivity" test.

I do agree that good nutrition and other remedies can often help. What many people don't realize is that the "natural cure" quite often works along the same pathway or process as the "medical cure."

a reply to: NavyDoc

Around here, they don't culture much. The doctor usually just does an educated guess. If someone is really bad and in a hospital or they can't cure something after a couple of different prescriptions, then they do culturing. Maybe it is different where you practice.

I should have probably stated educated guess.

Some antibiotics are based on chemistry found in nature, the sulfonamides is an example of this. But many are based on excretions, most penicillins and related antibiotics are this way. These chemicals sometimes interfere with the replication of microbes and viruses. Look at alcohol, it has antibiotic properties and what is it?

I am talking of the basis of antibiotics, as I stated above in my last post, Pharmaceutical science has researched the hell out of this and figured the way that these chemicals work.

I may not know how to prescribe the medicines but I do know a lot of basics about how medicines are designed and where the knowledge of their chemistry comes from. That is my interest. I'll let the doctors do prescribing, that is their job.

a reply to: TrueMessiah
The evidence is overwhelming that antibiotics can cause damage when used improperly. That is the key though, improperly. If I have a staph infection or pneumonia though I won't think twice about taking antibiotics. In a few more years it wont matter, nobody will be taking antibiotics as they will be completely ineffective due to forced evolution caused by improper overuse.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Ok in regards to the A.I.D.S. issue, I think it was on the list due to the fact that antibiotics debilitate the immune system (evidenced by number 8 on the list) even further so it would be presumed wise for someone in this conditionto avoid them as much as necessary.

HIV victims don't have a functioning immune system. They're not pumped with antibiotics for a laugh, only when they succumb to an infection which their (non-functioning) immune system can't handle. If they avoided antibiotics when succumbing to a dangerous bacterial infection, they would die. Item 8 on your list is sourced by a naturopath, aka quack. You might as well be citing Ronald McDonald, at least he has the dignity to wear a costume when behaving like a clown.

a reply to: Mandroid7

A 0 ppm Reverse Osmosis systems with charcoal filters are mandatory with any tap water in my house. It also helps with the other yummy additives like pharmaceuticals, pesticides, nicotine, arsenic etc... Down here in Florida, we are getting about 500 ppm of dissolved solids through our tap water, the rain is between 5-10, maybe 20 ppm max.

Agreed on the filter system, our 5 stage RO works great and the tap water reads at 104 ppm dissolved solids and our actual filter water reads at 006 ppm so all is good here.
It's not quite a zero reading but damn close to it, I hope more people invest in these filters as the price is dropping fast for them and the replacement filters and the membrane are also available on the cheap too.

Our filtered water is tasteless and has a smooth feel to it, our ice cubes are crystal clear and our pasta needs no oil when cooking as the filtered water prevents sticking.
As you mentioned in your post we do not ingest any thing but water from our RO tap. And that we are grateful for.

Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: TrueMessiah

An excellent post, however, I can tell you that after recently graduating medical school, antibiotics are indicated, in many different situations and circumstances. For example, if you have a patient coming in for something what we think as mild as a sinus infection, antibiotics are indicated, because if we do not treat the patient, their risk of infections spreading to the brain like meningitis increases. It all depends on the situation and the context. I do agree that antibiotics are not indicated for many situations, however, in many instances, I would highly advise against outright avoiding them altogether.

Best regards,

Dr. Nadius

a reply to: TrueMessiah

You are not medically qualified. NEVER EVER give people medical advice you fool or you could make them worse or even kill them.

originally posted by: ziplock9000
a reply to: TrueMessiah

You are not medically qualified. NEVER EVER give people medical advice you fool or you could make them worse or even kill them.

LOL! I see trying to increase awareness on this subject is shunned upon. Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way. SMH

I'm selfishly glad that we have antibiotics. I took them many years ago when a nasty bug hit me, and I had already tried to fight it off for about ten days at that point. I was getting worse, not better, and finally took the pills for a couple of weeks. It worked, I got well, but haven't taken any since then.

I think they will end up causing more harm for our species than good, in the mid term. It's difficult to think which is better overall. We have more people who are alive today, who can potentially contribute (though most don't seem to in any lasting, meaningful way) , yet they may bring with them various sub-clinical, and/or clinical illnesses with them after recovering. To what extent does this speed up mutations, to what extent is that passed down epigenetically? What is best, truly?

I don't know, but believe it best we only use antibiotics as a last result. Unfortunately, that belief is not good for bigPharma.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Turq1

First, antibiotic resistant bacteria isn't a reason to avoid antibiotics, if you have a reason for taking it.

Options would have to be weighed and the question of "does the good outweigh the bad" would have to be taken into consideration. Antibiotic resistant bacteria would cause the intake of antibiotics to go up in efforts to counter the ailment. As the numerous studies show, there are serious complications arising from abundant use.

Point is, if you have an infection, the question of antibiotic resistant bacteria is moot. The over prescription of antibiotics is not an immidiate personal health issue, the context of that discussion is in the realm of public health.

I've taken micro and have seen first hand and learned how this works. But you can't "counter" antibiotic resistant bacteria by taking more of the antibiotic.

The OP is wrong from the get go...there are things to look into but this is bad info. Mixing correlation with causation....yeah, big no no.

a reply to: TrueMessiah
Ty very much for such an informative thread. My gf could be a poster child of over prescribed antibiotics. She grew up in a very unhygienic environment. Abuse, neglect, dirty diapers, bug bites. Needless to say she was sick constantly from birth to age five, and prescribed antibiotics for her ailments pretty much continually during this time, and periodically until age 18. Her father went to jail for her abuse for 12 years. Anyway she was diagnosed with crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis at 18 as a result of the medical examinations required for the trial. Long and sad story for sure. Your post has given us some places and studies to research for some answers also some hope for help in her receiving treatment. The doctors in Alaska seem to think most of it is caused by stress. So of course that means prescribing more meds. It has become a vicious cycle of never ending drugs very expensive and time consuming. They try this and that to no avail. Stress is a factor in that it increases the severity of her symptoms, reducing the stress does help but is not a cure. Living in a near perpetual comatose state is no life, and very depressing to her. Again requiring meds for her depression. Insanity, to say the least. Over the course of 8 years I've been with her if I were to add up the cost of all the meds I'm almost certain it would total over a million. I haven't even got to her back and nerve damage, but you get the picture. Docs and big pharm are happy to keep raking it in. Makes me sick. Sorry to bother you with our problems, but thanks for listening and your effort into the OP.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: NavyDoc

Around here, they don't culture much. The doctor usually just does an educated guess. If someone is really bad and in a hospital or they can't cure something after a couple of different prescriptions, then they do culturing. Maybe it is different where you practice.

I should have probably stated educated guess.

Some antibiotics are based on chemistry found in nature, the sulfonamides is an example of this. But many are based on excretions, most penicillins and related antibiotics are this way. These chemicals sometimes interfere with the replication of microbes and viruses. Look at alcohol, it has antibiotic properties and what is it?

I am talking of the basis of antibiotics, as I stated above in my last post, Pharmaceutical science has researched the hell out of this and figured the way that these chemicals work.

I may not know how to prescribe the medicines but I do know a lot of basics about how medicines are designed and where the knowledge of their chemistry comes from. That is my interest. I'll let the doctors do prescribing, that is their job.

A lot of what you've said is false. First of all, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that "some antibiotics are based on chemistry in nature." ALL antibiotics are based on chemistry found in nature. Also, Penicillin and related antibiotics are not based on excretions. Again, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "excretions." Penicillin works by interfering with molecules involved with synthesis of the bacteria's cell wall.

Additionally, Alcohol is not an antibiotic in the traditional sense. It's an antiseptic, but it will not treat an infection. In fact, many antibiotics have a moderately negative interaction with alcohol.

To the poster who suggested the antibiotics do more harm than good--to phrase it as nicely as possible, this is a ludicrous statement and is blatantly false. Nobody in the healthcare or research fields would agree with this statement. There are certainly important issues that require attention like resistance and side effects, but the good has outweighed the bad a million fold. This world would be a much different place with antibiotics.