post collapse ( resources)

originally posted by: bigpaul
a reply to: crazyewok I intend to be a hermit and avoid other people like the plague

Don't you mean avoid the plague like a hermit?

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71 nope, I intend to avoid other people at all costs. probably wont be too hard with the large die off that will come. most people/sheeple haven't got a clue what their in for and would probably top themselves if they did.

Timeline wise what does ATS say of how long before it starts??? I've been following it for sometime but only see small things happening any one have an idea of how long??

a reply to: ATF1886 just look around at the world today, what do you see? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, Ebola, Volcanos, strikes, protests, anarchists,Jihadists, seperatists, Terrorists, etc.etc.etc. its already started, its just a matter of time.

originally posted by: bigpaul
a reply to: ATF1886 just look around at the world today, what do you see? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, Ebola, Volcanos, strikes, protests, anarchists,Jihadists, seperatists, Terrorists, etc.etc.etc. its already started, its just a matter of time.

And what you mention above, doesn't even touch on the topic of economic failures or that of technology failures that will bring us down. I love my simple abilities with my computer and I've had one or another since 1985. But the enormous complexity of what is put before us by commercial interest is so incredibly complex that it cannot sustain itself. That may seem to be a wild statement, but the key is that we folks on the receiving end, the bottom end that must pay to keep this equipment going for what is accepted as normal, daily lives are finding it more and more expensive and difficult to maintain these products on our own than ever before. In terms of products, I mean our computers, automobiles, etc. In addition, is the prime factor of medical care expenses--as it now stands--that will guarantee the average person will die in debt to the "healthcare" community. Some may see this as an off-topic rant here, but the crash of modern society will be facilitated by many interlocking factors and what I've mentioned will and are playing their part.

I see it all I guess it's just a big bubble that's about to burst what scares me is it all mixing all at once....a reply to: bigpaul

I believe the human race has come so far, further than any civilisation has before, but we rely on technology and other systems so heavily that if...when..these systems fail we have much further to fall. just a few days ago the British newspapers were going on about possible power cuts this coming winter...that's how close we are to failure. when these systems start to fail we will see a cascade or domino effect, one affects another which in turn affects something else, so on and so forth, the beginning of the end or T.E.O.T.W.A.W.K.I.

We are teetering in the balance it's not good As much as I love the human race we're a bunch of baboons no pundt intended we only worry about moving forward but don't perfect of maintain were we are at we try to make things easier but only complicate them more progress is not bad but when we move faster than we can adjust is where our problem lies...a reply to: bigpaul

problem is over population, and their breeding faster than people are dying these days, the infrastructure is stretched to the limit and still they keep coming. the UK govt wants to build more houses on farm land, they cant see by doing that there is less land to grow food on, that's ok whilst we've still got cheap food coming in from abroad, but they have no contingency plan if that ever stops, because that has never occurred to them.

Not yet... Lol but eventually revalations has a lot of info like the average plagues ,pestilence death destruction and so on....a reply to: bigpaul

Resources in either scenario are dependent entirely on your ability to recognize resources, use them efficiently, and store them appropriately.

Adaptability of resources should also be considered. I'm a huge fan of versatility. Your resources, whatever they are, must be able to adapt to multiple, differing uses. It would be the best way to survive a long term situation.

having maps of wallmart/kmart/shop co/costco distribution centers would be of use as every one will be running to the stores but the smart people (were talking full on SHTF mind you) will be looting and raiding the distribution centers and attempting to acquire resources to support larger groups (or to be given out as gifts to get fealty of others )

nat gaurd armories and other places can be either hit or miss depending on type of shtf and duration

knowing of old mines and large underground areas to try to occupy could come in handy as well(montana for example is full of forresty stations full of explosives if you know where to find them )

i think it will be people who think out side of the box will be the ones sezing resources and that if your gonna form a group make sure to have people with skills in logistics,driving heavy machinery(semi trucks fork lifts for loading etc heavy equipment) or other skills that can help get you resources quickly moved will come in handy

most car dealerships have fuel tanks on site to refuel vehicles and cat/dozer retailers often have stashes of diesel on site and i feel they will be less prone to initial looting as car dealerships and other types of retail establishments

cooking supply stores often carry good deals of spices (which used to be currency in their own right back in the day)

if your state has any hydroponics stores or garden centers they should also be a high priority as when people are looting food the smart people are looting the ability to grow food any solar panel places should be pretty useful too

if you live in a major city taking museum could come in handy depending on type (hey if its zombies go steal some plate armour and chain mail) but many often have antique weapons (the stienback museum in ca for example has a working .30 machine gun on display

any armoured car staging areas (brinks etc) could be looted to get light Armour vehicles which could enhance scavenging


if you live in any cold climate plow trucks while being large and durable can also be used for fortifications (making snow walls and obstacles you can hide spike strips or equivalent in to deny areas and approaches to your territory but id advise protecting the tires as with out them they are just road blocks

if you live in an area prone to floods or with rivers that can be dammed you can make your own holding ponds for fishing and attempt to stock them if you can or use them to flood areas at certain times(think dutch ww1)

attempt to loot chemical supply/pool supply stores stores as most preppers ive talked to are not prepared to deal with home made chemical weapons (Raid+explosive= a horrible way to die) and its not like its hard to make chlorine gas

for more defensive measures you should attempt to get your hands on any firefighting gear as with out a firedepartment or 911 to call fires will kill alot more people then ive seen people mention here so getting a heavy duty rescue or a pumper could help save you if your opponets try to steal your resources with fire and they can be used to store water (if clean) in dessert climates to move large ammounts of water for a group

fish stores and pet stores can be a source of medicine for our pets and ourselves

for our UK and european friends they should attempt to take a castle or other old fortifications and go feudal as unless people have arty/cannons fortified stone walls are one of the older forms of defense against hordes just make sure to stock it and have near by water so you dont get starved out



setting up a code or rules to follow with your prepping group in advance can also solve alot of problems as if every one has clear rules and responsabilities its far less likely to devolve into full on anarchy and chaos (think ricks three questions from walking dead) and then that way you can at least attempt to have some form of justice and laws and codes

Bravo man bravo copy paste print that one goes to the book of knowledge I've thought of a couple but u hit on the money!!! a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

the castle idea(or stately home) idea post SHTF has already been thought of. however groups in the UK are a problem, preppers REAL preppers are spread very thinly and far apart, not everyone is trustworthy, family groups are probably the way to go if you have an extended family, I don't, its just me and the missus against the world, groups of strangers that just happen to be lucky enough to survive SHTF are a recipe to getting a knife in my ribs in the middle of the night and all my stuff stolen....not recommended.

a SLOW collapse-a domino effect-which is what I believe will happen, will leave more people alive so any resources will be used up quicker. so what then? revert to the stone age?

Any collapse will have at least ONE very quick moment...when the grid goes down. When that one event happens (and that is part of nearly every scenario), that's when things are really going to get crazy...or at least the moment when folks are convinced it isn't coming back anytime soon.

What will happen, is a few weeks of complete anarchy and looting, rioting, and atrocities too horrible to list here. At least in major urban centers and cities. This is the time that rural preppers will simply be bugging in, and trying not to be noticed, while prepping their post-SHTF defenses.

Survivors are basically going to be knocked back to the 1800's for the most part, though with the knowledge of today, and lingering electrical devices for as long as batteries, solar, gennys, etc. hold out.

Organized gangs will control areas of cities, warring for resources, and some will eventually go outside the cities into nearby areas (range will be limited by fuel and supply line). A few may become roving bands, but I would think logistics would help in keeping their numbers small. Still, these folks will be the primary threat to any preppers, who will have to either engage them in combat, trade, or flee.

the power grid is the one weak link, without that a lot of things wont work, not just the electrics in your house but automatic doors, ATM's, fuel pumps, the list is endless. how far down the line that will be is the question, once the fuel pumps stop then so will deliveries of food to the stores-that's when it will hit home to "the masses" after than anything is possible. most of the modern generation wont be able to live without electricity even though we have had it for less than 85 years in the UK, anybody under 40 has probably never seen a coal fire.

If you picture a Coronal Mass Ejection on the scale of the 1859 Carrington Event, it would basically be the end of civilization.

Before you even talk about the grid, there is quite simply the chaos caused to our petroleum extraction. All crude oil moves from well to collection tank via pipeline, then via big feeder lines to refineries hundreds of miles away. Every mile or so, there are a set of pressure valves, all remotely controlled by the pipeline owner's central office. A CME would destroy EVERY valve in every pipeline. In the case of Russian, Saudi and American companies, some pipelines are a thousand or even two thousand miles long. There are not even enough replacement parts built yet to fix all the switches on every pipeline at once.

Same thing with the grid.

So, if the grid and oil arteries are not back on line in a week, they probably never will be. All those repair trucks will require gasoline. And the gasoline must be shipped from refineries (now off-line), to gas stations / vendors, who rely on electric pumps to sell gas to consumers. None of them will have the ability to move gas.


Then there's the medical angle

Every type I diabetic, every dialysis patient, every patient with a pacemaker (which uses tiny electrodes--antennae in a CME!) will be 'off the grid'. then every person who relies on maintenance meds will go off after a couple of weeks without their pills. So every heart patient, COPD, Asthsma, angina, etc., and every one who relies on air conditioning in the southern U.S., or winter heat other than firewood in the northern latitudes, will be winging it. Almost all will die within a couple of months. Add in the non-lethal problems, like drug addicts and mental patients, who will be amped up and desperate...

And sanitary practices.

6 hours into the apocalypse, your local water tower will be out of H2O. What will you do? most of your neighbors will carry all their buckets and travel mugs down to the neighborhood pond, and fill up their buckets. Which will be fine for the first 2 days. But they won't wash their hands or buckets; and they will wade in at the exact same spot the last people waded in. Someone will have to take a crap while their buddy fills the bucket. And without a marked latrine, they'll poop where the last guy went..... typhus. typhoid. scarlet fever. dysentery. millions will be killed by the green-apple quickstep.

And food distribution. With no fuel for harvest or marketing of produce, farms will quickly drop out of the global marketplace. No deliveries. So any food you get from a truck will cease to come to you. It will be replaced by what you can scavenge or produce on your own. Game will be stripped from natural areas in a matter of a month. Suburban and urban areas will be denuded of dogs, cats, squirrels and rats. Without the park service to stock area lakes and streams, those will be almost instantly fished out. What isn't will be lethal from the sewage running into the watershed. Millions will starve.

The good news is, it won't be nearly as violent as the doomsters imagine. Once a human's daily intake falls below a thousand calories, they become listless and passive. They won't be doing much banditry or looting once they are too shaky to stand. Most will die in small groups with their friends; often after eating contaminated food, or poisoned by whatever mystery plant they've picked out of the ornamental shrubbery in the yard.

The long and short of it is, we should have had a major, civilization-wide war by 1985 (a generation after WWII). Every decade we go without it happening, simply means that the "Big One" will kill that much larger a percentage of the planet's bipeds, when it hits.

Not too worried about the gas. We have horses.
Not too worried about the water. We have a well.
Not too worried about sanitation. We have septic.
Not too worried about food. We have chickens, rabbits, can hunt for game, a garden for veggies and herbs, and stockpiles.

However, one other big concern you didn't mention...The nuclear power plants.

When the grid goes, everyone within 50 miles of a nuclear plant is going to be in trouble (some even say within 100 miles). Luckily, I'm out of both of those ranges, but there are a LOT of folks who won't see THAT consequence coming...

originally posted by: Gazrok






When the grid goes, everyone within 50 miles of a nuclear plant is going to be in trouble (some even say within 100 miles). Luckily, I'm out of both of those ranges, but there are a LOT of folks who won't see THAT consequence coming...

that's one reason we moved 5 years ago, we were 15 miles down wind of a nuclear power plant.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
Half of the world will die when the medications and foods stop coming.
Then half of the rest will die when the rioting starts.
Then half of them will die from disease and suisides.
That should take about a year.
Raw materials ( wood, iron, copper) will not be a problem for the few that remain.
Seeds that are not hybrids will be a big problem, as will salt.

I think you have posted what seems to me to a realistic outcome, and salt can be found here:


Sea Water – Sea water can be diluted with plenty of fresh water to get the salt your body needs. (never drink pure sea water, doing so can be dangerous to your kidneys.

Plants – In America you can get salt from the root of a hickory tree. You can boil the roots until it evaporates and salt crystals are left.

Foods that naturally have salt – Seafood, carrots, beets, poultry and most animals.

Salt Licks – A salt lick is a salt deposit that animals lick to get their intake of salt. You can also find them in farming areas set out for cattle.