Liberals hope Titor comes true?

Why do liberals seem to hope that the Titor prophecy comes true?

I read Titor and for a little while was concerned that the liberals might succeed in creating enough divisions to lead to civil war if the election was disputed, things are settling back down now.

Liberals, go read Titor again. My reading is that the country people (red) fought his civil war against the city people (blue) and won. Look at the US election results by county (link below) instead of by state to see what I mean. So if the 'prophesies' you hope for come to pass, you (liberals) will be the losers. If I remember correctly, the cities also got nuked by the Russians for a double whammy.

Yes, the winners lived in small communites after the 'war' and were big into religion. Which present day group (red or blue) does that sound more like to you?

County-by county election results map:
www.realclearpolitics.com...


[edit on 12/9/2004 by centurion1211]

Wasnt Titors civil war caused by Big government ignoring the constition and violating our civil rights?that seems to me to be the work of the conservative party as of late.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Samhain
Wasnt Titors civil war caused by Big government ignoring the constition and violating our civil rights?that seems to me to be the work of the conservative party as of late.

My sentiments exactly...especially considering how proud our founding fathers were to call themselves "Liberals', and how the ultra-right has almost succeeded in completely demonizing the term with propaganda.

As I said before, I suggest you go back and read it again. The 'war' was between the country people who are generally more conservative and the city people who are generally more liberal - and the country folk 'won'.

This isnt the right section,
Titor comes under web related discussion and we have lots of threads about this

Originally posted by centurion1211
As I said before, I suggest you go back and read it again. The 'war' was between the country people who are generally more conservative and the city people who are generally more liberal - and the country folk 'won'.

And that's why, among the countless scores of other things that refutes it, Titor's manifesto should be considered false. It reads like some insecure person's wishful thinking. "All them city folk, with their high fallutin ways. And their fancy book learning. Were a gunna get ourselves a shotgun party together, cause men wanna be kissin on men and IKEA opened a new store in West Virginia".

It's the Red States who support the provisions in the Patriot Act, parts 1 and 2. As though terrorists would somehow find their way to attacking their corn, cows, and ford F-150s. They're still mad because Hee Haw and Touched by an Angel were taken off the air.

Blue Cities in Blue State cities are quite simply in the most possible danger from outside enemy forces, and from Red State demagoguery.

Thanks a lot, guys.

Also, time travelers don't use Corvettes. They use Delorians.
Everybody knows that.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by brimstone735]

The Titor story is basically what I like to call a militiamans 'wet dream'. He says that the division lines will be on the 2000 county by county election lines. Basically what you see there is blue-gore cities and red-bush country. Bush is supposed ot be somethign of a hero for the titor story.

Basically what happens is that things get out of control and people in the city, who are spineless, decadent, weak, and immoral, give up their freedoms for safety. The people who don't accept this in the city go to the countryside, where people apparently live in buccolic pastoral beauty as a community of free-men (well, thats the flowery take on it). Eventually this leads to militias of yeomen fighting against an entity callled, of all things, the American Federal Empire. The coutry people triumph, tweak the consitution to make it more decentralized, and everything works out fine.

This, like I said, is the fantasy of the radical militant rightwing militia movement, the McVeighs and what not. Heck he even talks about things like Waco happening constantly in teh lead up to the war. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc etc, the government 'bearing down' on free citizens in their fortified compounds.

So the liberals are most certainly the enemy in this system, because they are the ones, certainly at the time (8 years of clinton and such) that were in power and taking all the flak for governmental excesses. it was clinton's group that was in charge at Waco. Basically these right winger militias think that liberals want to create a powerful federal/central government that will regulate everything and oppress them. Of course, the liberals think thats what the conservatives want.

So, yes, it's bizzare for any 'liberal' to want titor's story to be true, because they'll be the ones getting nuked and mowed down by titors 'shot-gun infantry' units.

Titor was a supporter of gay rights.
Titor was a supporter of freedom.
Titor did NOT say that the war was based on the county by county voting lines of 2000.you missed his point.
Titor's work would suggest that he would be very against everything that our current government is doing right now.patriot act1 and 2,the iraq war,the war on drugs,the war on terror,the federal government deciding what should be state issues.
Titor said he was college educated and he seemed quite articulate.
please tell me how the "liberals" are the bad guys?

Originally posted by Nygdan
The Titor story is basically what I like to call a militiamans 'wet dream'. He says that the division lines will be on the 2000 county by county election lines. Basically what you see there is blue-gore cities and red-bush country. Bush is supposed ot be somethign of a hero for the titor story.

Basically what happens is that things get out of control and people in the city, who are spineless, decadent, weak, and immoral, give up their freedoms for safety. The people who don't accept this in the city go to the countryside, where people apparently live in buccolic pastoral beauty as a community of free-men (well, thats the flowery take on it). Eventually this leads to militias of yeomen fighting against an entity callled, of all things, the American Federal Empire. The coutry people triumph, tweak the consitution to make it more decentralized, and everything works out fine.

This, like I said, is the fantasy of the radical militant rightwing militia movement, the McVeighs and what not. Heck he even talks about things like Waco happening constantly in teh lead up to the war. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc etc, the government 'bearing down' on free citizens in their fortified compounds.

So the liberals are most certainly the enemy in this system, because they are the ones, certainly at the time (8 years of clinton and such) that were in power and taking all the flak for governmental excesses. it was clinton's group that was in charge at Waco. Basically these right winger militias think that liberals want to create a powerful federal/central government that will regulate everything and oppress them. Of course, the liberals think thats what the conservatives want.

So, yes, it's bizzare for any 'liberal' to want titor's story to be true, because they'll be the ones getting nuked and mowed down by titors 'shot-gun infantry' units.

I'm sorry.but i cant see how you have come to some of your conclusions.
Bush is a hero in the titor story??titor was making a point that bush won becasue of a supreme court decision.and that he lost the popular vote.and the majority of people let it happen.
Im a liberal,and i live in the country,i hunt,i smoke,i drive a pick up truck,i own MANY guns,am i a spineless liberal???
Do you know what a liberal is?
If your a bush supporter,than YOU have givin up YOUR freedoms for security.and if i remeber correctly,titors family lived in the city,and moved out.they werent farmers or anything of that nature.
Titor said he fought the Federal government(republicans and democrats)not that it was a war of the parties.

I didn't say it was about what the govenrment was or was not doing. It's about the values of the people. I was just trying to say that the 'winners' of Titor's war seem to more closely share the values of today's people from the red counties than people from the blue counties.

I think this is a fascinating question thank you Centurion 1211 for posing it. I think John Titor was ripped from the same militia flag from which Timothy McVeigh was shorn. I think if we can/must put him in a political box I would call Titor a Libertarian. Now I ask you are Libertarians on the right or the left? Sometimes these terms serve more to confuse than lend insight. After the tragedy in Waco many right wing Americans could not understand why our government objected to religious people owning 50 cal guns, to the extent of burning them and their children alive, and formed anti-government quasi militia groups that espoused a high regard for the founding fathers and utter contempt for creeping fascism. Both sympathies are clearly present in Titor�s writings. There was a moment there in the 90�s when your average bomb throwing anarchist was a bible pounding right to lifer. The conundrum posed by our leaders swift goose-stepping towards a corporate NWO fourth Reich caused many conservatives to go so far right they appeared to come round left. They were joined by sympathizers on the left that had issues with the military ordinance used on the Up house in Philadelphia. Now the question is whether the red states are the good guys in Titor�s world and the blue the Nazi bad. We may be seeing Mr.Titor struggling in his writings with his own internal archetypes just as we are as a nation. Whether red or blue we are all Americans and some are green and some are Libertarians which may be a color that is red blue and green. Fuchsia?
The argument for the blues being the good guys:
Liberals have opposed the current wave of creeping fascism vigorously while republicans have embraced the wholesale shredding of the bill of rights and this is no science fiction fantasy, this is scary real.
While Titor did mention that he lived in a community with strong religious values he did not stress the stripe of religion (unless I missed something). He also seemed to espouse a very tolerant attitude towards drug use that sounded like the standard libertarian party line to me. That �Everyone carries his own water� was a theme throughout his writings and rings of Libertarian self reliance and disdain for the welfare state. Not all people that live in rural areas are reds my friends. I live in an extremely rural area that is similar to Appalachia and I am died in the wool lefty. While I am far left of center on social issues I can�t tell you how riled I get when people start talking about gun control. Maybe I have gone so far left I have come round right? I support a woman�s right to choose and my spiritual beliefs have more to do with Hinduism and Taoism than Christianity. I am a rocker that opposes war and a hetero that supports gay (equal) rights. Yet here I am ready to stand and declare, �...from my cold dead hands� right next to Chuck Heston. Not what you would expect from a liberal tree hugging organic granola eating sandal wearing peacenik? I am consistent in my desire to maintain my Constitutional rights.
Titor also said that his family had left the city for the country and that people had moved from the country to the city. Isn�t it more likely that the �security moms� we�ve heard so much about would gleefully throw all their rights in the bonfire if they could for one brief second feel safe from the Islamic boogeyman under the bed? The city folk in Titor�s world sound like reds to me.
Titor said that he thought the next President (Bush) was a good man that struggled to hold the country together while it was torn apart with civil unrest. This may be taken as an indication that he was a red but hold the phone! Not so fast the election isn�t over yet and there is a one in six hundred thousand chance that the efforts of Beverly Harris et al will reverse the current standing leaving reds out in the cold and the delicious prospect of democrats having to defend Kerry losing the popular vote while winning the electoral, roasting on the spit. Oh spin upon spin Mr. Titor! The irony would be sufficient to build ten thousand tanks and suspension bridges. I hope I hear you chuckling. Titor said that civil unrest would begin surrounding events of the 2004 election. Would that be the reds or the blues causing all the trouble? It is still not clear and the issue can still cut both ways. Titor�s writings tend to cast some doubt on the scenario where Kerry wins a recount and the outraged musket bearing reds take to the streets hills and hollers because he seems to indicate that the 08 President could/will be a woman. Could this be a reference to the dreaded Hillary CLINTON? I do not agree that things are settling down. If anything the election debacle is beginning to seep into the mainstream media. In my opinion election reform is not a partisan issue but I�m a dirty blue so what do I know?
Titor also said that his mother was opposed to firearms and that she would change her mind. This may indicate that he came from a blue family that finally came to understand that taking guns away from people in the well intended but misguided cause of safety and security was the same as shredding the bill of rights in the well intended but misguided cause of safety and security. Gun ownership in the cause of safety and security may be an easier argument to make when people are shooting at you. To my mind the two are not mutually exclusive but mutually inclusive.
The case for the reds being the good guys:
The shredding of the bill of rights began under Clinton with the real Patriot 1 (we are really at part three now) shortly after the bombing in Oklahoma City. There has been bipartisan wholesale destruction of the Bill of Rights in the name of anti-terror. Democrats cannot claim to be defenders of our civil rights and maintain intellectual honesty. For God�s sake wake up Waco, Ruby Ridge, the sale of missile guidance technology to China all happened on Clintons watch. I know Chinese weapons tech doesn�t belong under bill of rights but I had to throw that in in a Titor thread. Oh and also since I am arguing the red side here it�s obligatory: No matter what you say Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, and Clinton! Ok that�s out of the way.
Yes conservative Americans signed up for militia duty in droves after the incident at Waco but what happened? The Clinton (blue) administration immediately demonized them as racist Nazi sympathizers in league with skin heads and the KKK even though they counted African Americans among their ranks and were avid defenders of Constitutional guarantees of liberty. If you can�t see blues acting as Nazi�s Google Janet Reno for more info. Playing Fleetwood Mac at Clinton�s inaugural notwithstanding clearly the blues are the Nazis!
The great thing about Titor is that we don�t have long to wait. I have enjoyed this exercise in Titor coloring immensely and have found it to be cathartic at a time when our country remains deeply divided. I believe a corporate shadow government works night and day to destroy American freedom and is neither red nor blue as it creeps inexorably towards the goal of slavery for all. Both presidential candidates are skull and bones men and seem united in their service to corporate tyranny. Perhaps we the people of a divided America can find common hallowed ground defending our greatest treasures, our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Ten generations of my family have fought in wars defending this country you better believe I would do the same. Whether the enemy is internal or external is the question. Am I blue?
Bottom line: I think Titor was a libertarian. I don�t think the blue town vs. red country dichotomy is enough to define Titor as a red. Also Titor was quite young at the time of the 04 election and small children simply cannot line up along stringent partisan lines as we Americans have recently. He seems to indicate that the division is along the lines of those that support the constitution and those that seek to abrogate it. Is that a red blue choice? Yes many young blues would love to see the current corporate oligarchy crumble as evidenced by their fervent wishing on a star that Titor�s predictions prove to be accurate. They see it as a Mad Max/Road Warrior movie complete with motorcycles, self sufficient hippie communes, and best of all psychedelic hippie bus�s carrying them away to the safety of the great northern marijuana patch. Sigh. And the road warrior? We never saw him again, eventually I became chief of the northern clan. So I say star bright, star light, first star I fervently see tonight ��

The two biggest misconceptions of american politics.
Republicans=conservative.
Democrats=liberal.
Show me a republican in the last 50 years that has done ANYTHING to shrink the federal government.
Anyone remember the PMRC?basically state sponsered censorship.
Republicans and democrats are seperate wings of the same vulture.made to give us the illusion of choice.

Hey alexodin....where in the great north are those marijuana patches???

Originally posted by centurion1211
I didn't say it was about what the govenrment was or was not doing. It's about the values of the people. I was just trying to say that the 'winners' of Titor's war seem to more closely share the values of today's people from the red counties than people from the blue counties.

Like i said,i think you have missed titors point.
Values?becasue im against the war on drugs i lack values?becasue im against a constitutional amendment that bans gay marriage do i lack values?becasue im against gun controll,the war on terror,high taxes,welfare,rush limbaugh and fox news do i lack values?
I think now is the perfect time for you to think about that "values" word people love to throw around.

Hi Sam I think they are in a place called Canada or Never Never Land.
Wasn't Jesus closer to what we would think of as a hippie today? All that peace love preaching complete with sandals, incense and strret people and stuff? It gets so confusing trying to put people in a blue or red box all the time. When I think back in time before my political weening I don't think of previous Presidents in terms of republican or democrat perhaps Titor had the same syndrome.

Originally posted by Alexodin
Hi Sam I think they are in a place called Canada or Never Never Land.
Wasn't Jesus closer to what we would think of as a hippie today? All that peace love preaching complete with sandals, incense and strret people and stuff? It gets so confusing trying to put people in a blue or red box all the time. When I think back in time before my political weening I don't think of previous Presidents in terms of republican or democrat perhaps Titor had the same syndrome.

Jesus said to cast off your worldly things and to love God and love each other,to take care of each other.jesus was also a champion of free will.Just like God is.
Doesnt sound like any conservative leaders i know.
Doesnt sound like 90% of any churches out there either,especialy the ones on TV.

Of course the most damning evidence that Republicans are the bad guys in Titor's world is his statement that the bad guys will be the ones that are locking people up without due process and denying peoples rights. Now who does that sound like to you?

Right, please turn this in a discussion about a new world order or a one world government, etc or this thread is being moved.

Originally posted by Alexodin
Now who does that sound like to you?

They're also powerful in teh cities and have no base in the countryside. Besides the federal government is the 'ones' locking people up. Its made up of democrats and republicans. I haven't seen any democrats demand that peopel be released from gitmo. besides, titor was talking about american citizens, not people captured in other countries.

This Patriot Act business started under Clinton and is bi-partisan in nature so sure, its not a red blue division. They all agree we must submit to the authority of the NWO in exchange for security. I don't think they Mirandise people anymore when they arrest them in the US because they don't feel that they have to.