36,000 walrus converge on Alaska Beach in strange new phenomenon

a reply to: Rezlooper

On September 17, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2014. This is now the sixth lowest extent in the satellite record and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent. Sea ice extent will now begin its seasonal increase through autumn and winter. Meanwhile, sea ice in the Antarctic has surpassed the previous record maximum extent set in 2013 and is now more than 20 million square kilometers (7.72 million square miles) for the first time in the past thirty-five years. It is too soon to determine if Antarctic sea ice has reached its annual maximum.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Rezlooper

I know that Rezlooper

After reading the OP I wanted to see the stories from previous years myself through Google.

Honestly I personally have no idea whether it's global warming or something else but animals, the people, the planet have all been messed up for a long time. I don't think the public will get any answers for a long time.

I have to agree with you there.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
This is an article from 2013 on the same thing in Alaska:

Thousands of Walruses Swarm Beach

A 2011 article points out how global warming is blamed. Again in Alaska.

Walruses Leave Three Weeks Early

Alaska, 2010:

Walrus Swarm 2010, Alaska Dispatch News

From the first few pages of Google search results. Seems like a lot of people think this happens often.

It says it my post that this isn't something new, just that it's increasing but that it has been happening since 2007. Prior to that it was small groups sometimes even less than a hundred walruses.

Nope, sorry. It's been happening over the last 45 years.

At least two documented incidents like this have occurred in the recent past: one in 1978, on St. Lawrence Island and the associated Punuk Islands and the other in 1972, on Wrangell Island (Fay and Kelly 1980, excerpts below).

I believe that back in the '70s the world was worried about the impending Ice Age, were they not? Anyhow, the link provided contains the relevant excerpts.

Upon reflection, I am forced to conclude that walrus may not be the brightest of critters.

I wonder were those colder or warmer years than the average at that time, IDK and don't feel like checking right now, it's late and I'm tired, but maybe there was less ice those years as well. Just sayin.

originally posted by: guitarplayer
a reply to: Rezlooper

On September 17, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2014. This is now the sixth lowest extent in the satellite record and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent. Sea ice extent will now begin its seasonal increase through autumn and winter. Meanwhile, sea ice in the Antarctic has surpassed the previous record maximum extent set in 2013 and is now more than 20 million square kilometers (7.72 million square miles) for the first time in the past thirty-five years. It is too soon to determine if Antarctic sea ice has reached its annual maximum.

Thanks for that info.

a reply to: guitarplayer

That also means there were six years that were lower, and some of them were much lower at that. If we're really going to do the leg work, someone should check to see if those "mysterious" haul-outs occurred on any of those years or only those other years when the ice was lower than it is this year.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
This is an article from 2013 on the same thing in Alaska:

Thousands of Walruses Swarm Beach

A 2011 article points out how global warming is blamed. Again in Alaska.

Walruses Leave Three Weeks Early

Alaska, 2010:

Walrus Swarm 2010, Alaska Dispatch News

From the first few pages of Google search results. Seems like a lot of people think this happens often.

It says it my post that this isn't something new, just that it's increasing but that it has been happening since 2007. Prior to that it was small groups sometimes even less than a hundred walruses.

Nope, sorry. It's been happening over the last 45 years.

At least two documented incidents like this have occurred in the recent past: one in 1978, on St. Lawrence Island and the associated Punuk Islands and the other in 1972, on Wrangell Island (Fay and Kelly 1980, excerpts below).

I believe that back in the '70s the world was worried about the impending Ice Age, were they not? Anyhow, the link provided contains the relevant excerpts.

Upon reflection, I am forced to conclude that walrus may not be the brightest of critters.

I wonder were those colder or warmer years than the average at that time, IDK and don't feel like checking right now, it's late and I'm tired, but maybe there was less ice those years as well. Just sayin.

I don't think it would make a lot of difference.

It was much colder than normal this past year and the sea ice only recovered to the sixth lowest extent.

So given that the trend during the '70s was cold enough that the world was actively publishing articles on the coming ice age because of how cold the climate of the world as a whole had been at that time, this graph shows sea ice extent with the pale gray dotted line being the average for the '80s. It's the highest line with the greatest extent. The excerpted paper was published in 1980. Keep in mind that these haul-outs were in the '70s with one being in 1978. So, either there was a whole lot of freezing going on with a sudden melt in the '90s when Global Warning all of a sudden become an issue -or- there was probably a lot more ice early in the decade with less ice bringing that line down in the latter parts of the decade.

So, just how variable are you expecting me to believe that sea ice is from year to year? Basically, if this event is specifically caused by a pack of walrus not wanting to drown through lack of ice, then it's entirely possible for the entire Arctic ice cap to essentially practically disappear and reappear in more or less a 12-month span of time, and that runs counter to what even the most radical MMGW true-believers will tell you.

Anyone know who counts the walrus'?

The source used to debunk this as happening for forty five years mentioned similar events in 1972 and 1978. The whole point is that this is happening every year now and always in huge numbers

This article discusses haul outs in various locations while the "hyped" news that came out today refers specifically to the area in Northwest Alaska on the Chukchi Sea. Not to mention that the article comes from an anti climate change blogger cherry picking research.

I just spent a while researching (sure it's cherry picking too but I rejected numerous sources supporting me on grounds of obvious bias) and found not one article for or against that seemed credible or relevant until I stumbled across this one.

juneauempire.com...

" In the past decade that changed, with the haulouts forming every year, lasting much longer and becoming far larger - from 30,000 to up to 70,000 animals."

This article is from the local paper for Juneau which is Alaska's capital so being intended for local consumption I imagine it's not pat of a Gore based propaganda campaign. It focused primarily on a Russian walrus expert named Anatoly Kochnev (this guy is very specialized in walrus and lives and studies and participates in rural Russian communities)

In it he discusses changes in the walrus migration and haul out patterns due to dwindling sea ice. For those of you who didn't really look into this deeply, this is new in this specific area. This is normal walrus behavior just not of this magnitude and frequency in the Chukchi sea (north of where Russia and Alaska touch). Most walrus haulouts used to happen on the islands and coasts of the Bering sea (the sea south of where Alaska and Russia almost touch).

The article focuses on changes mainly on the Russian side but he predicts this happening on the Alaska side. " While Alaska doesn't have the haulouts as large as those on the Russian side, Alaskans may soon have to adapt to living with walrus.". Since I know no one ever reads links this article was from March 2010 so either Anatoly is a psychic or he just has vast hands on experience with walruses. Probably just a luck guess right?

My favorite part of the article though is this.
" At the Feb. 3 meeting in Point Hope, it was clear that the Russians and Alaskans were already on the same page in many ways.".

So essentially a whole bunch of Russian and Alaskans scientists with personal hands on experience, in conjunction with the native populations who have lived in tune with nature for far longer than the existence of the USA as a nation are in agreement almost 5 years ago about the nature of this problem. When Russians and Americans are totally in agreement maybe there's some truth?

Nah probably just a hoax for more of that sweet animal protection money. Because greedy money grubbing souless assholes always love to get their easy global warming money by moving to the most remote..... Least comfortable places on earth...... To hang out with rural villagers.....and study walruses......forever. Yeah totally a Hoax.

Get your heads out of the sand. Just because Gore and other celebrities jumped on the movement for easy money and publicity doesn't mean the movement is totally wrong. The local people this # actually affects seem quite concerned. I choose to believe them.

a reply to: tavi45

Thanks Tavi for the post and doing some research.

Over thirty years ago when I was a pilot in Ak I saw this sort of thing first hand. These Walrus parties have been going on for much longer than that according to locals I met in my travels there. Their numbers reflect success, not decline. Its noisy as hell near these parties and stear clear, they don't like much of anything that aint like them, and will run over a human without missing a beat


The thing that strikes me as noteworthy is how these groups have become larger and yet the isolated dispersed gatherings have all but disappeared.

Are the Walrus' learning to get the word out about where to meet?

My favorite part of this site is how when you do real research and make real points the ignorant people you are trying to inform just ignore it.

a reply to: thirdcoast

They leave that up to the employee with insomnia. Instead of counting sheep they count walruses.

After a while the person puts their hat over their face and says "I'll just say 30,000. I'm not counting them."

Well, actually, I can imagine they'd photograph them and some computer program analyzes the shapes and estimates how many are individual.

Or they use predetermined estimates of how large each animal is, then figure out the space covered, then divide it to hopefully arrive at a believable number.

Hope that helps, sorry I am not an expert, but judging from the article linked in this thread about the swarms in the 20th century, it seems they figured it out by estimating how many animals could fit into the covered space.

a reply to: tavi45

Or ... the walrus just like hauling out there?

Walruses are very social animals and congregate in large numbers. They haul out in herds and males and females form separate herds during the non-breeding season. They establish dominance through threat displays involving tusks, bodies and aggression. The largest walruses are the most aggressive. Walruses spend two thirds of their lives in the water. Most walrus groups migrate north in the summer and south in the winter, and females haul out on the ice to give birth.

According to this, they use the ice for birthing.

The rest of the time, they like to congregate in large numbers, and they do haul out in herds.

Also, walrus may use and abandon their haul outs on a whim. A haul out that they use regularly may suddenly be abandoned for years before they just as suddenly reappear to use it again, and they may continue to do so habitually.

Cape Peirce was historically used as a haulout but was abandoned sometime during the first half of the 20th century. Walrus began reusing the haul outs in 1981 and have returned every summer since.

The article I linked to second goes on to describe activity at the managed haul outs which has nothing to do with the ice pack but other factors. As you can see, the one haul out is used regularly and other one irregularly, and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to when or why walrus will appear or won't or even how many will be there.

It may very well be that this "sudden" haul out is one that was historically used and abandoned and only recently picked up again.

a reply to: Rezlooper

36,000 walrus isl alot you got to feel sorry for them..
:-/

purp..

a reply to: ketsuko

Eh I get what you're saying as I read a lot on the topic. I'm just saying that the indigenous people who know their stuff since they've been there forever are concerned. Also a Russian expert who lives among the natives and has studied the specific topic for a long time predicted this. I trust word from those directly involved and impacted by this over outsiders including the WWF.

a reply to: tavi45
I have to agree with the poster who stated the increase is due to their prosperity. On the west coast the herds have been increasing for years due to protection laws. Unfortunately, it plays havoc with beaches, boat docks, boats etc. Just ask the people in San Francisco. It also plays havoc with fishing since they'll take a bite out of a fish, then another, then another. The only winner is the Walrus. Many fishermen have taken to covertly trying to rid some of the walrus but there are too many.