It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why was Peter naked in John 21:7??

page: 2
3
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:02 AM
link   
a reply to: johndeere2020
You are projecting your own homosexual ideas onto a culture that didn't work that way. These fishermen would be out in scant clothing (if any at all) and it was just fine for them to be working that way in front of each other. There was nothing sexual about it.




posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:11 AM
link   
a reply to: johndeere2020

Very strange! I had a deja vu when I clicked on your thread and laughed my socks off at the end of your post. I really felt like I had read your post before here. Are you sure this was not posted before about a year ago? If not then you have tripped yourself out and me, also.

It is quite interesting to reflect on this mention of Peter being described as naked in this account. The fact that he actually puts a garment on to jump into the water is not very logical to say the least is it?

There are other passages in the NT, too, where disciples are described as being naked. Remember the disciple who ran away naked into the night when wrestling free of the clutches of those coming to arrest them, leaving his garment behind?

There is, of course, a possible explanation here that it reflects some heavy Greek influence getting mixed up in the gospel stories and the sources may in part be from some gnostic group in places. There was a widespread gentile (Greek) gnostic practice of homosexuality among some pseudo Christians. I have read certain gnostic gospel accounts that show homosexual behaviour being ascribed to the disciples. Very crazy stuff, but those stories are as old as the true Gospels. This is true, you can find this stuff by reading up on gnostic texts.

I haver a twinge of instinct that there is some Greek influence here. No Jew would uncover completely in the presence of other men being on a lake surrounded by villages of people where there are many fishermen on the water. That would not be proper Orthodox Hebrew behaviour. However, in Greek terms it would have been quite normal; we know the Greek's celebration of nudity by the fact that the Olympian athletes used to perform their sports completely naked.

Honestly, I can think of no other logical explanation that a Hebrew spiritual disciple would fish totally naked in front of his brothers; not possible for those times.

Both the OT and NT have so many layers and cultural influences spread over the huge timeline when these texts were evolved to become what we know as The Holy Bible today.

I am a Christian by the way, but just being honest here.


edit on 2-10-2014 by lonesomerimbaud because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: johndeere2020
You are projecting your own homosexual ideas onto a culture that didn't work that way. These fishermen would be out in scant clothing (if any at all) and it was just fine for them to be working that way in front of each other. There was nothing sexual about it.


With all due respect he may have a point. Please refer to my comment here. He is actually being quite observant.
edit on 2-10-2014 by lonesomerimbaud because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:24 AM
link   
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud
The fishers coat is the outer clothing that he had cast off.
It's how they did things. That doesn't make them gay.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:38 AM
link   
a reply to: FlyersFan

Hey, nobody has even mentioned a homosexual link apart from me, certainly not the OP. Only you and I have brought that to this table.

Again, can I ask you to refer to what I originally wrote and the gnostic texts that portrayed homosexuality alongside the Gospel. That is a fact. Those texts are really there. Paul even refers to and outlaws the practices of these Greeks and specifically mentions them.

I am raising the question that there has crept in some Greek gnostic text as part of the Gospels, nothing beyond that.

You know how the Hebrews were about public nudity. Remember the shame of Noah being uncovered before his sons? It is out of tone with Jewish public behaviour. The OP has raised an interesting question that relates to possible Greek influence in the narratives.

Peter certainly was not gay; he had a wife.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 09:49 AM
link   
a reply to: FlyersFan

Here is a good article that explores in part some of the gnostic texts that refer to homosexual gnostic beliefs about Christ:

Was Jesus Gay?—An Examination of the Secret Gospel of Mark

From the article (quoting Secret Gospel of Mark);

"And in anger Jesus went away with her into the garden where the tomb was; and immediately a loud voice was heard from the tomb; and Jesus went forward and rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And immediately he went in where the young man was, stretched out his hand and raised him up, grasping him by the hand. But the young man looked upon him and loved him, and began to entreat him that he might remain with him. And when they had gone out from the tomb, they went into the young man’s house; for he was rich. And after six days Jesus commissioned him; and in the evening the young man came to him, clothed only in linen cloth upon his naked body. And he remained with him that night; for Jesus was teaching him the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. And from there he went away and returned to the other bank of the Jordan."

This gnostic text is as old as the true Gospels. It is real.

I've no wish to argue, just to back up my original comment that it is a valid one. Thank you.


edit on 2-10-2014 by lonesomerimbaud because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 10:31 AM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
nobody has even mentioned a homosexual link apart from me, certainly not the OP.

It was inferred in the opening. That and/or pedophilia. And no, I'm not homophobic and I'm sure people were gay back then ... but there is no evidence that Peter was homosexual or that he was a pedophile. The premise of this thread infers things that aren't there.

As for the gnostics. I've read them a few times. But they aren't considered credible for most folks. Sorry. Just stories written after the fact. Like historical fiction.

Anyways, I've answered the OPs questions from a theological point of view. So I'm done here.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 10:51 AM
link   

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: FlyersFan

Hey, nobody has even mentioned a homosexual link apart from me, certainly not the OP. Only you and I have brought that to this table.



I have no idea, it is purely just my observation. And it is in my knowledge that under certain conditions, a completely heterosexual man could become attracted to a man, particularly, a young man with effeminate features - a male who may look like a female, young boys in general.

Conditions such as lack of opportunities meeting or seeing unrelated women - this is prevalent in Jewish culture where men and women are segregated, also in Muslim countries, and in male prisons.

I'm a first-hand observer of this phenomenon in a country where men and women are segregated. And male to male rapes are common and the victims are often young and the perpetrators older.

Quite a few times, Jesus rescued innocent people in distress such as Mary Magdalene, and an animal who got trapped. And I don't think Peter had changed by then... In John 21, Peter felt insulted by Jesus. Jesus probably knew there was something wrong with Peter.

There are theories out there that seems credible that John the Beloved is also Mary Magdalene. In fact, old art works of the last supper depicting John the Beloved leaning against Jesus depicts a very feminine looking person.

If that was Mary Magdalene, did Jesus rescued Mary for the 2nd time in John 21??



posted on Oct, 2 2014 @ 11:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: johndeere2020

Very strange! I had a deja vu when I clicked on your thread and laughed my socks off at the end of your post. I really felt like I had read your post before here. Are you sure this was not posted before about a year ago? If not then you have tripped yourself out and me, also.




Seriously? I've been experiencing strings of clear deja vu's lately in the past several days, even in some multiplayer game I'm playing and made a 100% accurate prediction of the outcome.

I felt like I made my OP for several times yesterday.

Such string of anomalies. I think something huge is going on.







 
3
<< 1   >>

log in

join