The Kašūšu Weapon

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
The Hebrews took most of their mythology during their captivity in Babylon, and the Babylonians of course inherited their knowledge and culture from the Akkadians, and they from Sumerians, so forth. It's likely this was based on a real event - as flooding was common, albeit one of an uncommon destructive force - and that the Hebrews preferred it over the Egyptian myths. After all, if you study the 10 plagues, they are specifically things to blaspheme 10 things the Eyptians held sacred!

If you also study the story of (Sargon was it?) it strongly appears to be the inspiration for Moses' story.

a reply to: deadeyedick

"The fallen" at least in the Hebrew/Aramaic version means "the corrupted" (fallen as in fallen from grace) and is usually misinterpreted by alien enthusiasts as meaning literally fallen, from space, as if they slipped and fell lol.

I agree with you but i also feel that the term has a dual meaning that some came here not from some far off place but from a place very near ours. I am starting to lean toward the thought that men are from mars and women from venus has truth in it meaning that our world is sandwiched between other realms one that is a matriarch and one patriach and we seem to be the melting pot. I think we are the senior class in a four level school and too leave the school you have to be paired up with a mate. We will be leaving in pairs 2x2 going out into the real world and others will go back to take the class again and again. In that sense fallen could also mean failed. It reminds me of the quote from dazed and confused. The thing about high school chicks is that i keep getting older and they just stay the same age. Fast foward to dallas buyers club and the scene where he is in the room where butterflies are being grown. I get huge spiritual implications from that scene. Sorry for the off topic op

a reply to: Ridhya

The Akkadian myth "Ishtar and Shukaletuda" also features Ishtar sending 3 plagues against the people of Mesopotamia when they conspire against her to protect a rapist (Shukaletuda). Among these plagues are turning all the water to blood, killing all the livestock, and covering the land in darkness. Obviously 3 plagues hardly equals 10 plagues, but it is interesting that the 3 plagues Ishtar chooses, were also chosen by Yahweh in the Hebrew myth.

I do agree with you that the Babylonian captivity inspired much of Hebrew mythology. Since the Israelite people were not native to Mesopotamia though, they had a shaky grasp of Cuneiform, and that would likely account for why the myths don't perfectly align. Folk-memory mixed with nationalism created a unique Hebrew blend of Mesopotamian mythology. This was, obviously, also mixed with some Egyptian practices (baptism, circumcision, etc.) and a host of practices contrary to those practiced by the peoples of the Levant, like tattooing, idolatry, eating shellfish, and wearing blended fabrics.


~ Wandering Scribe

a reply to: deadeyedick

Not to intercede, but, I happened to come across something relevant to your discussion here, and thought that I would share it. The source is an in-depth study of Zecharia Sitchin's work (and the flaws therein), and one of the topics covered is the "nephelim" and their descent:

Sitchin assumes "nephilim" comes from the Hebrew word "naphal" which usually means "to fall." He then forces the meaning "to come down" onto the word, creating his "to come down from above" translation. In the form we find it in the Hebrew Bible, if the word nephilim came from Hebrew naphal, it would not be spelled as we find it. The form nephilim cannot mean "fallen ones" (the spelling would then be nephulim). Likewise nephilim does not mean "those who fall" or "those who fall away" (that would be nophelim). The only way in Hebrew to get nephilim from naphal by the rules of Hebrew morphology (word formation) would be to presume a noun spelled naphil and then pluralize it. I say "presume" since this noun does not exist in biblical Hebrew -- unless one counts Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33, the two occurrences of nephilim -- but that would then be assuming what one is trying to prove! However, in Aramaic the noun naphil(a) does exist. It means "giant," making it easy to see why the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) translated nephilim as gigantes ("giant").

Sitchin Is Wrong

~ Wandering Scribe

a reply to: Wandering Scribe

I love intercession.
That does fall right in line with what i believe. If you take a look at the standing stone it is also called the cosmic egg by some. It is giant rock carved into the shape of an egg and has four circles on it. Many have tried to say it represents dna but my take is that it represents the four planets that effect our reality and that each have a place around earth. You will notice that each circle is not the same size. Now if i am correct and some figured out how to transend from one circle or planet to another the chances are that size would come into play givin that we do not see any habitation on any planets around us then perhaps they are in a different frequency beyond our perception. In that sense the ones that figured out how to go from one place to the next would be rebellious and also fallen or moved from a to b. Sorry i do not have the bandwith to post pics. it is in the lagos national museum.

a reply to: Ridhya

Well, Babylon was a major player in religion concerning the Jews, but just as important or even more important were the Egyptian, Assyrian and Canaanite pantheons and traditions. But yea, Babylon was an important factor or inspiration.

a reply to: deadeyedick

"Reknown-" or "Great Ancients" or "Giants" are probably the best translations.

a reply to: Wandering Scribe

a reply to: Wandering Scribe

Again, thanks for your contribution. Your knowledge of these Mesopotamian myths is quite impressing. Just wanted to let you know. Keep 'em coming!

a reply to: Utnapisjtim re known would denote being out of place kinda like fallen back to a previous level. Returning back to a place you were but not supposed to be. It still brings that dazed and confused quote to mind. All the definitions seem to describe the same thing that some returned without authorization from a next level because they are a rebellious bunch. We could say that they loved being stars of the game so much they choose to forgo angelic state of mind for some strange.

a reply to: Wandering Scribe
I have a book that outlines how the plagues could have been real, and tricks done to scare the Egyptians. For example, the staff turning into a serpent, has an interesting anecdote about flinging snakes around by the tail to cause a blood rush to the head, making them unconscious - and if you practiced the length of time to regain it, you could throw a "staff" on the ground and have it turn into a moving snake.

But the thing is, I've seen evidence also saying that Moses never existed and that was all a mythologised event. Both are possible.

As Utnapishtim said, the other localities also imparted things to the Hebrew religion... but it was really the Babylonian captivity that changed everything. I have read arguments that the Hebrews were wholly illiterate until then, and the books/accounts were all written then (or thereafter).

A note on the Fallen, there is a program here called The Naked Archaeologist and he went through the translations (as he is Jewish) and he suggested that the Fallen were likely Neanderthals or similar hominids, and it explains their intercourse with humans creating abominations and such.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Which is just about the same for Genesis. I am convinced that the Flood account of Genesis was based on the Epic of Atrahasis. If not solely then at least mainly.

Good Day Utnapisjtim,
Very good indeed and as usual you are one of the best.
I have a question that has haunted me for a number of years and was brought back to memory the other day.
I have always believed that in conjunction with the flood of Noah that the earth had a great upheaval of unimaginable proportions. I cannot source the following because it was a audio interview with Stan Deyo and John Wells. John Wells has a show called Caravan to Midnight similar to the show Coast to Coast except that Wells show is a internet only show and not broadcast such as Coast to Coast. The date of this show was 9/10/14 on Caravan to Midnight. This is the only source that I can give you.

There are some Geo Physicists who now postulate the "Expanding World" -- This earth had a 20% expansion in the period of 2100 B.C.E. to about 2345 B.C.E. I found that amazing as I heard Stan Deyo explain the repercussions of this expansion. The crust of the earth expanded and through this expansion the earths inner components were released. Stan Deyo was not discussing the flood of Noah or mentioning such biblical events. In fact the entire subject matter was earthquakes and fracking but when Stan Deyo gave the science evidence and the dates it then brought back the earlier subject matter of Noah's Flood.

Deyo says that some Geo Physicists believes that this entire world grew by a unbelievable 20 % during a 245 years period of from 2345 B.C.E. to 2100 B.C.E. The Jewish Time Line Encyclopedia says that Noah's flood occurred in the year of 2105 B.C.E. That would place the expansion within five years of the biblical flood. In other words the flood would have been at the end of the expansion. This would coincide with the fact that the flood did recede after the great turmoil of the earth.

Trying to research this is like like trying to pull teeth. What I need is source material from the scientific view which is unbiased and peer reviewed. Can you or anyone give me some references?

a reply to: Ridhya

The guy with no clothes usually is close to the truth. I think that ties in with the standing rock i mentioned because i believe that each of the four circles on it represent different parts of the earth or the four planets that comprise earth and different people on different continents. There is much talk then about traveling in boosems and that is how they moved from planet to planet or continent to continent. Sure some people migrated but then some were gathered and moved and some fell. It was common place then to refer to travel as ascending or decending and we have never really explored that thought or travelling land to land without going the whole journey. This also explains the whole age of eart problems because while the seperate planets or stages of life devolopment are older than 6000 yrs they were brought together that long ago. The cosmic egg or standing rock is earth and the circles are different planets brought together by the matrix. I also believe the bonding the fallen did was not of the sexual nature but it was a spiritual bond where the fallen were male spirits that came and inhabitated the flesh of some women because they were sexy. There is an age we all go through when our flesh bonds with the spirit. This is why we have two names first and middle.

a reply to: Seede

This one is OLD I know, but have you checked out Neal Adams? Maybe not a geo-physicist, but does being a Batman cartoonist count? Gives for some nice old-school eye-candy, and I love the psychedelic soundtrack.



Youtube channel ==> www.youtube.com...
A great playlist ==> some text to make the link work

I haven't seen the other flicks in the playlist, but the guy is spot on in the video above. According to Wikipedia (see below) he has written and produced a DVD which the vids on his homepage and in the above youtube channel and playlist serves a few appetisers from. On his homepage www.nealadams.com... he seems to have more of the good stuff, but the short snippets cost dollars, he also promote a 5$ pdf you can download in his shop. I guess it's just fair that he wants to get paid for his work, but I don't necessarily buy his way of doing it. Anyway, what I have seen is just great. It makes sense in a strange kind of way.

en.wikipedia.org... (removed the note refs):

Adams believes the Earth is growing through a process called pair production. Adams holds the work of Samuel Warren Carey in high esteem, but does consider Carey's term "Expanding Earth" a misnomer. While Carey did advocate an expanding Earth in the mid-20th century, his model was rejected especially following the development of the theory of plate tectonics. Adams advocates his ideas in a DVD documentary he wrote and produced, clips of which he displays on his YouTube channel.

ETA: Though not exactly what you asked for, but it was the first thing that came to mind. Haven't heard about the 2000 BC expansion before. I'll let you know if I find anything. And thanks for the kind words. I don't deserve them, I write all kinds of bollocks. Some of it is perhaps the bollocks, but other times and to some, mostly-- it's just bollocks But thanks anyway.

a reply to: Seede

As for the cause of a potentially cataclysmic flood event, we must not forget that the last ice age ended 10 000 years ago and when glaciers melt and break up all kinds of stuff happens. And:

noc.ac.uk...

Global sea level rose by a total of more than 120 metres as the vast ice sheets of the last Ice Age melted back. This melt-back lasted from about 19,000 to about 6,000 years ago, meaning that the average rate of sea-level rise was roughly 1 metre per century.

Now, even if the sea-level rose steadily with about a meter a century as the above research indicates, this steady rise in sea-level would result in great floods where valleys suddenly became fjords and seas as the ocean rose and found new ways like when the Med rose to a level where the Bosporos caved in, and billions of tons of seawater burst in and created the Black- and Caspian Seas, or rather filled them to the brim since melting water from the Ice Age would have initially have created large freshwater bodies in the area where Eden once was.

The same thing probably happened with the Mediterranean Sea as well at some point in time even further back in geological history, as sea level rose above the continental shelf by Gibraltar and Aden the ocean burst in creating the Red Sea in the same process. Anyway, we don't have to go to the Bible or the Sumerian library to find support for massive floods of apocalyptic measures. The geological records and a touch of abstract thought show several such flood events happened in relatively recent history. Perhaps Noah isn't quite as far-fetched as we might think.


ETA: This is a part of Earth history, and it's recent, that we either don't fully understand, or that for some reason is kept secret, held back, maybe to avoid panic since this stuff actually happen all the time and the last 6000 years seem to have been remarkably quiet, geologically speaking. Oh, I forgot, Global warming. It's happening again. With Greenland and Antarctica melting, let's say during a massive burst from the Sun that lasts a week, sending out a cloud of superheated plasma where temperature on Earth rise considerably over a relatively short time, but enough to trigger the snowball to start rolling.... We are talking about a further rise of about 70 meters, straight up from today's shorelines. So... DON'T PANIC!!!!!

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: deadeyedick

"Reknown-" or "Great Ancients" or "Giants" are probably the best translations.

Or simply 'mighty and reknown' in one word

Long enduring dragon = Eternitity *Swastika"

Draco was most likely associated with the rotation of the pole star by the writers of the myth so this is probably a way of describing rotation. So the "weapon" rotated or spun around...maybe like a saucer?

a reply to: XGodofWar

I'm curious where you got the definition of "long enduring dragon" being a Swastika. To my knowledge the Swastika was not used in ancient Mesopotamia, but instead came from the Indus Valley people. The Indus Valley people were neighbors of the Mesopotamians, but not officially connected through anything more than possible trade routes, the Indus Valley people maybe being related to the mysterious Meluḫa trading post found in a small number of Sumerian myths.

Concerning Draco, you have to be careful not to make the mistake of assigning Greco-Roman constellations to the people of ancient Mesopotamia, as the common constellations all originate in Greek mythology, and the people of Mesopotamia had a completely different set of constellations. For example, Canis Major, the Great Dog, containing Sirius as its brightest star, originates among the Greeks as a divine manifestation of either Europa's canine Laelaps, or one of Orion's hunting dogs. To the Babylonians this same star was called Kak.si.di, the Great Arrow of Ninurta, and originated in the constellation Ban, the mighty Bow of Inanna.


~ Wandering Scribe

originally posted by: Wandering Scribe
Kašūšu is a term that combines two others: Kaš, meaning "long enduring" and ūšu meaning either "dragon" or "strength".

I believe this is a direct reference to holding back water upstream and then releasing it having turned the serpent (river) into a raging dragon (flooding river) having turned the river into a mighty weapon, killing thousands by the minute. Tiamat I see as Mesopotamia with its rivers and cataracts (heads and limbs) and horns (canals and dams). I believe Tiamat is another form of Yam(m), and Yam is the Akkadian (I think) name for Leviathan, the Hebrew version of the Dragon that lives in the Nile.

In Hebrew Yam means Sea, but also metaphorically a river, when it flows over it's limits and becomes a destructive moving raging sea of unimaginary power. Now Tiamat is the Mesopotamian rivers, while Yam and Leviathan is the Nile. The seven heads of Yam/Leviathan are the seven cataracts of the Nile, the Bible refers to them as "channels" which is probably a misnomer with definitions lost in translation.

And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the River with his scorching breath, and strike it into seven channels, and he will lead people across in sandals.[ESV] Isaiah 11:15

These seven bodies of water are separated or rather limited by, if the nile was a staircase, six steps, or six natural dams. As the Monsoon starts raining over central Africa bringing about the rainy season, these cataracts starts filling up and flow over as the water migrates through Nubia to Egypt, resulting in the whole Egyptian Nile valley being filled to the rim with water. So in order to live in the Nile valley, they had to sort out and take dominion over the river, they needed to draw out Leviathan with a fishhook or press down his tongue with a cord to echo the critics of Job. They had to tame the river, harness it's godlike power.

And the Egyptians and the Sumerians chained their dragons, tamed their rivers, in doing so, the Paraohs became gods in their own and their fellows' minds, and so did Anu and the others, with their paradise rivers. Great dams and a vast network of canals and floodgates. Today Egypt is a desert, and noone longer notice the Nile or Euphrates rise or fall, because the whole Nile and the rivers of Paradise are now completely dammed up so to speak. Damned serpents, harnessed Dragons.

Atrahasis shows Anu and Enlil first used the river to spread disease, secondly they stopped the supply of water and brought drought and famine, and thirdly they let go of the dragon Kashushu.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

ETA: This is a part of Earth history, and it's recent, that we either don't fully understand, or that for some reason is kept secret, held back, maybe to avoid panic since this stuff actually happen all the time and the last 6000 years seem to have been remarkably quiet, geologically speaking.

Utnapisjtim -
Thanks for the info. Got some leads from your post and am reading them now. Also ordered some material from Neal Adams and Stan Dayo both. Adams is well worth the read. My main concern at present is not which flood but whether a global flood was possible and feasible. Thanks

a reply to: Seede

No problem. I believe the Biblical Flood is based on the Epic of Atrahasis and was a "local" Mesopotamian event, huge and indeed cataclysmic, but local, in the sense that it wasn't a world wide flood of the oceans, but a premeditated terror attack made by kings playing gods around 5000 years ago, intending to kill off generations of enslaved humans, using the rivers as a weapon of godlike power. Which they did, but Atrahasis survived with mice and men. The Hebrew name Noah probably comes from Ut-'Noah'-pishtim (his name in Gilgamesh and elsewhere) as the stories migrated through time moving from Sumerian and Akkadian and Babylonian into the Hebrew lines in Genesis.