Two US Navy F/A-18C Hornets crash in Western Pacific.

a reply to: intrptr

Fair enough... that didn't stand out to me on first read.

Boy, it almost seems like these crashes happen in cycles. There will be three then nothing for a while. Then a year later it happens again. Maybe it has something to do with weather patterns at certain times of the year tied to their maneuvers. So they need to have cease fires in and around September in the Northern Hemisphere.

a reply to: rickymouse

There is indeed a recently-developed tropical storm in the Western Pacific: www.wunderground.com...

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Most likely a training accident.

Agree...

Also could have been a mechanical failure.

The F/A-18 appears to have a known track record of engine troubles.

Apparently it caused this crash:

a reply to: Murgatroid

If one pilot survived the accident then the Navy knows what happened. If nothing has been released it's so the families can be notified. This is common courtesy to the military families not conspiracy.

Training mishaps are not new or unusual...it's just the nature of the job. Military flying is dangerous and it's not like sitting on a commercial flight with an inflight movie.

Radar is not accurate enough to show a collision other that one or both targets (blips) disappear from the scope.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: _Del_

originally posted by: new_here
Sort of curious to me that whether they crashed into each other or not, isn't obvious from Radar.

Maybe I missed something. What led you to believe that?

Just the fact that it is still under investigation and they indicate it isn't clear what happened. That, and they haven't explicitly stated: radar shows a mid-air crash occurred.

Not saying that in a brief notification press release does not mean that the information isn't available. Most investigations are the same. They could have HUD video of the collision and still say it is under investigation, because they will interview everyone involved and gather as much physical evidence as possible before releasing an actual report. Details will emerge with time.

originally posted by: _Del_

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: _Del_

originally posted by: new_here
Sort of curious to me that whether they crashed into each other or not, isn't obvious from Radar.

Maybe I missed something. What led you to believe that?

Just the fact that it is still under investigation and they indicate it isn't clear what happened. That, and they haven't explicitly stated: radar shows a mid-air crash occurred.

Not saying that in a brief notification press release does not mean that the information isn't available. Most investigations are the same. They could have HUD video of the collision and still say it is under investigation, because they will interview everyone involved and gather as much physical evidence as possible before releasing an actual report. Details will emerge with time.

Then why bring it up at all, if it is so hush-hush? Why not wait until all the info is gathered and say it all at once? They are only asking for rumors and speculation by the method they chose to dole out just a tiny snippet. What's the big secret about saying if they crashed into each other or not?

a reply to: new_here

Because it's news and the PAO, or whatever the Navy calls their public affairs guys, is expected to say something. I doubt the PAO knows what info they have. They aren't investigators.

a reply to: new_here

It's not hush hush, but they aren't 100% certain yet. The SIB has 30 days to complete their classified report, and the AIB has 90 days to complete theirs. They won't say what happened in any kind of detail until at least 30 days, usually not until the AIB report is released.

So you are telling me that 2 aircraft under 90% computer control, just collided in mid air ?

This is one of the things that make me go hmmm

This is the new system "they" got. It can deliver a DDOS attack on aircrafts. Trying to log in to the core system a million times a second... its a classic - something has to give...

originally posted by: kloejen
2 aircraft under 90% computer control*

*citation needed

Uhm, pilots are flying the planes and making inputs via the stick. In the cockpit. Computers are making sure the flight controls are moved in such a way to comply with those flight commands.

a reply to: kloejen

Operations aboard an aircraft carrier, and flying the jets themselves is a very dangerous and risky job(s). F/A 18s are not 90% computer controlled either, they require an immense amount of human operation. In all likelihood, the cause of the crash was human error. It is possible they collided while doing moving in to a close abreast formation or also likely something happened why they were in pattern to land (though this is a highly controlled operation). There have also been problems with some of the engines as noted earlier in the thread.

ETA: In any case, it is not likely a DDOS cyber warfare attack, that would be an act of war and I doubt China or anyone else would risk that on 2 fighter jets.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Perhaps you are right. But the DDOS idea does give room for excuses right ?

It might be the weather there? Nope - i checked. One pilot just #ed up ? ...

im wondering why its even being reported... what purpose does it have ?

a reply to: kloejen

Crashes are usually reported, no matter where they happen. They're important news for people tied to the units, as well as people that follow aviation.

a reply to: kloejen
15W Strengthens Into Tropical Storm Kalmaegi

Tropical Storm Kalmaegi was located approximately 550 miles east of Manila, Philippines

and the F/A-18 C's (not Super Hornets) went down

290 miles west of Wake Island

so it is possible weather played a part. Aircraft Carriers will skirt the edge of Hurricane’s/Typhoon's (I've been through 3) but if they are that close they will not sortie.

Hard to say the cause, hence the investigation. But pilot error and/or malfunction are likely, especially if weather worsened.

Why report it? OPSEC, because it would get out eventually. Right now the ship has likely blocked outside communications except mission essential military-to-military (standard procedure), however, once that is back online, someone will email/call their family and say something, ETA: plus what Zaphod58 said.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

I'll almost guarantee it was around the base 10 minutes after it happened. We lost an HH-53 out of Hickam in the 80s, along with 7 crew members, and before the remaining helicopter and C-130 were halfway home it was all over the base that we had lost a crew. Even on a carrier it would be all over their home station in no time flat.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Yes, very likely, especially when one can send email or pick up a phone really fast. That's not even mentioning me being in chat with another unit who can report out. Two deployments on the Enterprise and we didn't lose anyone (on deployment that is) which was crazy.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Yeah, that's impressive. Pretty rare now a days too.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Yeah, that is not to say we didn't have our close calls though, there were several.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

If you didn't I'd say you were lying. Close calls on a carrier are par for the course. We had a few on the ramp too. Had one guy put ten feet of intercom cord through #3 engine on a DC-8 charter.