The ATS Hall of Fame.

a reply to: roadgravel

Dear roadgravel,

Now that is an excellent point. I hadn't considered that possibility, thanks.

Let's say they love you (and my inside sources say that they do). Under this idea, they would label you as a nice poster. Consider what might happen then. If you really are a nice poster, then they're doing their job properly. But if your posts snap at everyone, and you'd rather start a fight than get a beer, then the whole community sees that the Mods were very wrong in their judgment.

After few complaints the Mods will have to decide whether to leave you listed as a nice poster, or dump you. If they keep you in, the whole community will see that the "Captain Billy Club" is worthless because of Moderator bias. I'm not sure they want to risk that. Mods can get fired, too.

A reputation for Moderator bias does the site no good whatever, and it reduces the monetary value of the site and it's advertising as the membership walks away.

I suppose I'm saying that if there was enough bias to award an undeserving member, the bias would correct itself.

With respect,
Charles1952

ATS Hall of Fame.

Sounds good at first....but after only a brief moments contemplation I realised that many of the members I personally would expect to see on such a list are, for various reasons, no longer with us.

And its just a tadge elitist and self-indulging.

There are still lots of excellent active members and those who have been here for more than just a couple of months know exactly who they are and for anyone who is even just a little bit curious can easily find out just how constructive individual members have been and how their posts are regarded by other members and Admin.

And if I'm being honest, every member should be offered exactly the same level of regard, respect and simple common decency regardless of any 'status' or 'standing' they may have achieved.

And as has been touched on previously, people in any 'Hall of Fame' tend to be departed or washed up with nothing new or relevant to say - can't think of many ATS members who would like to be in that particular club.

So, after due reflection I think that the current 'WATS', coloured borders etc and profile details are ample enough and any other honorifics would simply be going too far.
No disrespect to any who believe it would be a good idea - just my two penn'orth.

a reply to: charles1952
I have been highly impressed at the demeanor & disposition/s of some posters on these boards...I'm guessing - just as you.

They do stand out...
And - it is most obvious when expressing or countering opposing points of view.
Which is really an added prize/bonus to the other offerings of this site/community...as - I grow more inclined to consider their PoV, than I might, otherwise.

Is it their character, to handle themselves so?
Did they simply develop that charisma?
Or - are they just a lot smarter...than most?

Were they born with silver tongues? --- Do you reward silver tongues...for being...silver?
What about everyone born with black and blue tongues...?
No matter how hard they try - they will not turn...silver.

So - in agreement with your desire to appreciate "silver & gold" on these boards... I am disheartened that too many, by no fault of their own, would ever be in the running.
Another 0.0001% vs the 99.9999% club.

Not contending with you. As stated - I have appreciated the same as you... ... ...

a reply to: neformore

Dear neformore,

I'm truly grateful that you took the time to offer more information on the subject. Allow me to explain why I think this situation might be a little different.

First, in general, there's little room for competition. There's a bunch of guys that the Mods have selected as decent, and a bunch of guys the Mods have either rejected or not gotten to yet. There aren't levels such as gold, silver, bronze; or different signature banners showing the level of applause the member has received.

Some one in Captain Billy's Club (or whatever it gets called) is just one of the guys who are in it. Again, like the "writer" designation.

I can see only four ways this can go; the guy's decent or he isn't, and he gets selected or he doesn't. A decent guy who gets selected and a jerk who doesn't get selected are no problem, at least in the D-ego area. A decent guy who doesn't get selected will either not bother about it, or at worst he'll just quit. No problem. The only problem is with a jerk who gets selected for captain Billy's Club.

With any luck, this will be a fairly small group since the Mods are screening the candidates. But if one gets through, let me ask a basic question. Is selection to Captain Billy's Club alone enough to make a guy start shouting "I'm indispensable?" I don't believe it. And no one else should, because there is no experience with anything like this.

The club is not based on anything a person can use to lord it over someone. How is someone going to say, "I'm going to act like a jerk because I've been recognized for not acting like a jerk?" The world would laugh at him. It's not "I've posted more than you. I have more stars and flags," or anything like that. If a person has a moderate number in all his membership statistics, and gets selected for his decent, respectful behavior, he will not start saying "I'm King of the hill, I'm hot stuff, bow down to me, you can't get rid of me."

That, I believe, falls into the category of extraordinary claims.

A member who just has Captain Billy Club membership, and nothing else is not going off the deep end. And if people are using their statistics to act idiotically, debate whether it makes sense to get rid of the stats. I believe the decision was made to leave them visible because they're worth more than they cost.

I also think that encouraging respectful dialogue, and the people who engage in it, is worth more than the cost.

With respect,
Charles1952

Sir Charles,

I find this whole idea to be a completely self-serving stunt. Everyone knows that you are the most polite, honest and respected member these forums have seen for some time. Well, at least since I have been a member.

You know that if there was a Hall of Fame on ATS, you would be among the first to be nominated.

So I have caught-on to your nefarious plot. You can't fool me.

a reply to: charles1952

Except... anyone chosen by the moderators will likley be accused of receiving special treatment, or the staff will be accused of bias over certain isssues - something that happens already when we contribute to discussions in a number of topics.

Sorry, but unless there is some kind of magical seed change in attitudes on the internet, this kind of thing is not really practical at all.

a reply to: Freeborn

Dear Freeborn,

Thanks, good stuff. I'm trying to answer everyone who posts, so, to work.

I realised that many of the members I personally would expect to see on such a list are, for various reasons, no longer with us.

OK, I'm easy. Either allow retired members to be nominated or limit it to members who were active starting on a given date. Doesn't matter to me.

And its just a tadge elitist and self-indulging.

I'm having some difficulty agreeing with you. Is it elitist to offer membership to anyone who can be polite and respectful? Certainly, Captain Billy's Club (or whatever) won't have everybody in it, if for reasons of processing time if nothing else. And it won't have everybody who deserves to be in it, either. But that's not elitist.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by self-indulging. If you're referring to me as an individual, then if it will help get the idea accepted I will refuse to be nominated and selected or even have my name attached to the idea. This thread can be deleted if desired.

What it's intended to serve is the owner's idea of Reason and Respect in our conversations. They can threaten all they want, but we've seen that that is not the complete solution.

And if I'm being honest, every member should be offered exactly the same level of regard, respect and simple common decency regardless of any 'status' or 'standing' they may have achieved.

But we know that doesn't happen, so let's do what we can to encourage it. Further, Captain Billy's Club isn't about getting respect, it's about recognizing the importance of giving respect.

There are still lots of excellent active members and those who have been here for more than just a couple of months know exactly who they are and for anyone who is even just a little bit curious can easily find out just how constructive individual members have been and how their posts are regarded by other members and Admin.

Those who have been in the US for more than just a couple of years know that Martin Luther King, Jr. was an excellent American. Anyone who is even just a little bit curious can go to the public library to find out how excellent he was and how his life was regarded by others.

But we still have Martin Luther King, Jr. Days, Streets and Boulevards, Parks and Schools, and more. Why? Because society wants to recognize his importance and his ideals. We should have a Captain Billy Club to recognize the importance of reasonable and polite discourse.

So, after due reflection I think that the current 'WATS', coloured borders etc and profile details are ample enough and any other honorifics would simply be going too far.

As FlyersFan said nearly two years ago:

I'd like to see most of it all go away.
Keep the number of posts .. the points if you must .. and the flags I understand.
But Karma and stars are just conditioning people for 'group think' ... IMHO.

WATS and colored borders? The colored borders simply reflect the people with high WATS scores. WATS scores depend primarily on Flags, then Stars, finally Posts. What does that tell us? Your own experience should tell you that Stars have only a marginal relationship to the value of the post. How many posts say simply "Yeah! I agree with you! The other side is a bunch of (insert bad names)." That type of post is guaranteed to pick up stars, and if it's early in the thread, it will get even more.

What about flags? Well, what about people who don't care to start threads? No flags for them. But that doesn't tell us much about their quality, and nothing at all about how they conduct themselves in conversation.

The current stats simply tell us how much activity a member has engaged in and whether he is popular with other members. That's not what I'm hoping for here.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: neformore

I agree. Far more trouble would come of it.

But I've decided upon a new signature in my profile- in part, as a reminder to myself to keep me honest...and hopefully in part, as a gentle reminder to others.

Everyone has an off day. That can't be changed. But if we all really took the time to consider our own actions when posting, many of the aims in this thread would be largely accomplished.

Just sayin'

Oh, and one more thing....

I saw this yesterday and it just made me laugh:

a reply to: neformore

Dear neformore,

Forgive me for being a little slow in my understanding. Everyone knows I'm Mr. Confusion. Let me take your post out of order, just for my own understanding.

or the staff will be accused of bias over certain isssues - something that happens already when we contribute to discussions in a number of topics.

If the member is selected based on behavior in any of the threads he participates in, if he's respectful in 9/11, the Mid-east, and Atheism threads, how can the staff be accused of bias over certain issues?

Further, there must be a form letter by now which is posted when those kinds of complaints come up. I've seen it several times. It says something to the effect of "We've got multiple Mods who have looked at this. It's not any one person's decision. Any Mod who has been participating in the thread has nothing to do with the decision. So, shut up and go away." (I added that last sentence on my own.)

Finally, and I don't wish to sound unfeeling or lacking empathy. It's really more praise when I say that you guys must have been accused of everything by now, including having sex with Nancy Pelosi, and drinking the blood of the poor from skulls made from deceased OWS members. While it may take some time to send out that form letter, I'm sure you're tough enough to handle a "Wahhhh! You guys aren't fair" complaint.

Except... anyone chosen by the moderators will likley be accused of receiving special treatment

This is another thing I don't understand. If you give Bassago, beezzer, and a ton of other people recognition for being respectful, do you think they'll get posts saying "So, you're a nice guy? What are you, a teacher's pet?" The nice guy laughs it off, offers a carefully crafted insult, or tells the Mod who comes in and straightens it out.

I've been called a liar, a racist, a shill, full of hate, and I don't remember all the rest. I think we can deal with "Teacher's pet."

Sorry, but unless there is some kind of magical seed change in attitudes on the internet, this kind of thing is not really practical at all.

I can understand the opinion that we won't do it because too many people would have their feelings hurt (I'd disagree, but I could understand it), but I don't see why it wouldn't be practical. Take all the time you need to add "Nice guy" to the list of designations which already include "Fighter, Scholar, Writer, Subject Matter Expert," and whatever else is used.

I can't see how you would lose members from it, or make the discussions more angry. But, as I say, I'm Mr. Confusion.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: neformore

Can we just have a member-only super-awesome-poster-vote?

Me first.

Charles!

a reply to: beezzer

Dear beezzer,

Forget the super whatever it is. I want some of your special rabbit cookies with the unusually flavorful raisins. They're a big hit around here. Are you sure you won't share your recipe and tell me where you get those raisins?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: beezzer

I vote for the Leporidae Comici.

A fine example for us all.

If the member is selected based on behavior in any of the threads he participates in, if he's respectful in 9/11, the Mid-east, and Atheism threads, how can the staff be accused of bias over certain issues?

Isn't that expected of everyone. Reward for doing what one should? That sounds about right in today's world.

a reply to: charles1952

I steal them from the mod break room at ATS Headquarters.

(don't ask where THEY get them!)

a reply to: charles1952

roflmao

That woke me from my slumber

a reply to: WanDash

Dear WanDash,

Oh, my goodness. I didn't realize that I failed so badly in getting across my purpose here.

But first, you're absolutely right. Some of the posters are delights to talk with, agree or disagree. We can open ourselves up to learn, we don't have to close up in defense from attacks.

Is it their character, to handle themselves so?
Did they simply develop that charisma?
Or - are they just a lot smarter...than most?

Were they born with silver tongues? --- Do you reward silver tongues...for being...silver?
What about everyone born with black and blue tongues...?
No matter how hard they try - they will not turn...silver.

So - in agreement with your desire to appreciate "silver & gold" on these boards... I am disheartened that too many, by no fault of their own, would ever be in the running.

Dear WanDash, I hope that almost everyone, regardless of anything in their makeup, can be polite and respectful. Everyone is eligible. To be considered, you'd just have to be a regularly "decent guy." We all can do that if we try.

Forget about winning, I'd be honored if I was nominated by someone. Anyone can get that, at least

Another 0.0001% vs the 99.9999% club.

The 0.0001% would be the people who can't control themselves, the people who lash out in anger even if they could have just stepped away from the keyboard for a minute.

I can hear SkepticOverlord calling "Come one, come all. Act like the decent human you can be. Be respectful, be polite, talk don't scream. We'll get to you as quickly as we can. Try for the prize."

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: loam

Dear loam,

I agree with you completely. Good choice.

For a moment I confused that with lepus timidus, but a moment's reflection showed my error.

With respect,
Charles1952

Sure. Add another layer to the existing caste system. What the heck.

This already sort of exists on a number of different levels. And it seems to me that a lot of the time members who are exemplary become...mods.

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: beezzer

I vote for the Leporidae Comici.

A fine example for us all.

Awesome!

a reply to: roadgravel

Dear roadgravel,

It's sad, but you're quite right. We should all behave that way without reward. As you know, we don't. If people don't like this idea, come up with another one. If ATS is dedicated to reinstilling respect, I believe it will take more than Mod punishment. The threats have come before, they've been enforced for a while, then for whatever reason, it becomes time for another "reminder."

It doesn't have to be this idea, but let's come up with some form of positive incentive to go with the threats.

With respect,
Charles1952